Re: Roman Reviews "Q&A"
Thanks for that clarifcation, Keith.
Thanks for that clarifcation, Keith.
Star Trek Q&A -- Appreciation Thread ****SPOILERS*****
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Re: Roman Reviews "Q&A"
I figure people just call it the Riding Club for short. They do in my upcoming Greater Than the Sum, and I'm pretty sure they do in one or two of the other books.
I figure people just call it the Riding Club for short. They do in my upcoming Greater Than the Sum, and I'm pretty sure they do in one or two of the other books.
Re: Roman Reviews "Q&A"
Aha. Must have went in one eye and out the other. Thanks Keith.
Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman
Aha. Must have went in one eye and out the other. Thanks Keith.
Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman
Re: Star Trek Q&A -- Appreciation Thread ****SPOILERS***
I just thought of something.
In the universe with the Qu', those particular Klingons seemed a lot more nasty and brutal than the ones we're used to. Was this intentional?
I just thought of something.
In the universe with the Qu', those particular Klingons seemed a lot more nasty and brutal than the ones we're used to. Was this intentional?
Re: Star Trek Q&A -- Appreciation Thread ****SPOILERS***
Hmm. It just seems like the Klingons we're used to, would never treat people quite as violently as those did. I just can't see Klingons like Kang, Kor, Koloth, Martok, Klag, etc. doing what the Qu' crew did (especially the treatment of the ship's former crew).
Hmm. It just seems like the Klingons we're used to, would never treat people quite as violently as those did. I just can't see Klingons like Kang, Kor, Koloth, Martok, Klag, etc. doing what the Qu' crew did (especially the treatment of the ship's former crew).
Re: Star Trek Q&A -- Appreciation Thread ****SPOILERS***
^ Perhaps, but even in those cases, they still fought with honor. The Klingons on the Qu' did not seem honorable in the least. Would they keep a slave chained up ON THE BRIDGE like that? (Remember what's already been pointed out, about the Klingons generally not taking prisoners.) If they captured a ship, would they do to its crew what these Klingons did?
Hell, even Kruge in ST III was comparatively merciful.
^ Perhaps, but even in those cases, they still fought with honor. The Klingons on the Qu' did not seem honorable in the least. Would they keep a slave chained up ON THE BRIDGE like that? (Remember what's already been pointed out, about the Klingons generally not taking prisoners.) If they captured a ship, would they do to its crew what these Klingons did?
Hell, even Kruge in ST III was comparatively merciful.
Re: Star Trek Q&A -- Appreciation Thread ****SPOILERS***
You can't make such generalizations about Klingons. They're individuals, and they define "honor" in many different ways. What about Duras, Lursa, and B'Etor? What about treacherous TOS Klingons like Kras?
For that matter, we've seen that Mirror Universe Klingons behave in exactly the way you're describing. Regent Worf did keep people chained up on the bridge of his flagship. If it could happen in that alternate timeline, why not the one with the Qu'?
And how exactly did the Klingons in "Yesterday's Enterprise" "fight with honor?" All they did was fly in and shoot at the Starfleet vessels a lot. How can you gauge the degree of honor in something like that?
And how the hell was Kruge "merciful"? He disintegrated a gunner for a simple miscalculation. He murdered an unarmed man (David) for no other reason than to make a point. That's not only as far from merciful as you can get, it's as far from honorable as you can get. I think you're letting an overly romanticized view of the Klingons color your perceptions. (Remember, the idea of the Klingons as an honorable race didn't exist when The Search for Spock was made. That was an invention of TNG.)
(By the way, it turns out that the Klingon Dictionary defines Qu' as "duty, task, mission, quest, chore" -- another synonym for which could be "enterprise." Which doesn't really surprise me, but I've always thought that the ship name referred to enterprise in the sense of initiative and boldness in an undertaking, rather than to the undertaking itself.)
You can't make such generalizations about Klingons. They're individuals, and they define "honor" in many different ways. What about Duras, Lursa, and B'Etor? What about treacherous TOS Klingons like Kras?
For that matter, we've seen that Mirror Universe Klingons behave in exactly the way you're describing. Regent Worf did keep people chained up on the bridge of his flagship. If it could happen in that alternate timeline, why not the one with the Qu'?
And how exactly did the Klingons in "Yesterday's Enterprise" "fight with honor?" All they did was fly in and shoot at the Starfleet vessels a lot. How can you gauge the degree of honor in something like that?
And how the hell was Kruge "merciful"? He disintegrated a gunner for a simple miscalculation. He murdered an unarmed man (David) for no other reason than to make a point. That's not only as far from merciful as you can get, it's as far from honorable as you can get. I think you're letting an overly romanticized view of the Klingons color your perceptions. (Remember, the idea of the Klingons as an honorable race didn't exist when The Search for Spock was made. That was an invention of TNG.)
(By the way, it turns out that the Klingon Dictionary defines Qu' as "duty, task, mission, quest, chore" -- another synonym for which could be "enterprise." Which doesn't really surprise me, but I've always thought that the ship name referred to enterprise in the sense of initiative and boldness in an undertaking, rather than to the undertaking itself.)
Re: Star Trek Q&A -- Appreciation Thread ****SPOILERS***
^ Only tangentially related, but I liked it in Balance of Power when the Ferengi referred to the Enterprise as the Business Venture... or when it turns out that the name of a Ferengi ship, the Glutton, meant, to other Ferengi, the Ferengi-who-Devours-All-Business-Opportunities or something like that. We all know about the imperfections of translation, and it's fun to see the other side of the coin from time to time.
Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman
EDIT: Oops, wrong book. Fixed now.
^ Only tangentially related, but I liked it in Balance of Power when the Ferengi referred to the Enterprise as the Business Venture... or when it turns out that the name of a Ferengi ship, the Glutton, meant, to other Ferengi, the Ferengi-who-Devours-All-Business-Opportunities or something like that. We all know about the imperfections of translation, and it's fun to see the other side of the coin from time to time.
Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman
EDIT: Oops, wrong book. Fixed now.
Re: Star Trek Q&A -- Appreciation Thread ****SPOILERS***
At least Kruge killed quickly. He didn't torture, or take pleasure in the killing.
At least Kruge killed quickly. He didn't torture, or take pleasure in the killing.
Re: Star Trek Q&A -- Appreciation Thread ****SPOILERS***
I'm not following.
I'm not following.
Re: Star Trek Q&A -- Appreciation Thread ****SPOILERS***
What?????? So just because he murders people efficiently and cold-bloodedly, that makes it okay that he murders them???
And how in the seven hells of Mongo is murdering people for no reason less evil than keeping them alive in chains?
What?????? So just because he murders people efficiently and cold-bloodedly, that makes it okay that he murders them???
And how in the seven hells of Mongo is murdering people for no reason less evil than keeping them alive in chains?
Re: Star Trek Q&A -- Appreciation Thread ****SPOILERS***
The idea that Klingons behave honourably is Klingon propaganda that some Klingons try to live up to and other Klingons hide behind.
The idea that Klingons behave honourably is Klingon propaganda that some Klingons try to live up to and other Klingons hide behind.
Re: Star Trek Q&A -- Appreciation Thread ****SPOILERS***
The snake like creatures on Genesis were described as being microbes early in the film. Kruge seemed to enjoy the way he killed it. Later he ordered his subordinate to kill a member of the Grissom landing party. While he didn't perform the killing it could be considered torture to order it.
Babaganoosh said:
I'm not following.
The snake like creatures on Genesis were described as being microbes early in the film. Kruge seemed to enjoy the way he killed it. Later he ordered his subordinate to kill a member of the Grissom landing party. While he didn't perform the killing it could be considered torture to order it.
Re: Star Trek Q&A -- Appreciation Thread ****SPOILERS***
I don't think Kruge enjoyed killing the 'crobes, he was just looking for an enemy to fight. He even let the thing almost strangle him before he snapped its 'neck'.
And as nasty as it was for Kruge to order David's death (actually I think it was Saavik who he was going to kill - David jumped in and was killed in her place), I gotta go back to one thing...at least it was quick. The guard stabbed David once and it was all over. It's not "okay" in that sense, but I still don't look at that as being torture. An execution, yes. Torture, no. Torture would have been if the guard had individually ripped off David's arms or broken every bone in his body or something slow and agonizing like that.
The things that the Klingons on the Qu' did to the ship's original crew (particularly Beverly and Deanna), though...that's torture. Most of the Klingons we know, would never do that.
I don't think Kruge enjoyed killing the 'crobes, he was just looking for an enemy to fight. He even let the thing almost strangle him before he snapped its 'neck'.
And as nasty as it was for Kruge to order David's death (actually I think it was Saavik who he was going to kill - David jumped in and was killed in her place), I gotta go back to one thing...at least it was quick. The guard stabbed David once and it was all over. It's not "okay" in that sense, but I still don't look at that as being torture. An execution, yes. Torture, no. Torture would have been if the guard had individually ripped off David's arms or broken every bone in his body or something slow and agonizing like that.
The things that the Klingons on the Qu' did to the ship's original crew (particularly Beverly and Deanna), though...that's torture. Most of the Klingons we know, would never do that.
Re: Star Trek Q&A -- Appreciation Thread ****SPOILERS***
That's only because we've never seen the use of the mind-sifter or some of the shadier Imperial Intelligence activities onscreen. There's lots of Klingons that we don't "know" in the regular universe/timeline that would resort to torture and probably enjoy it.
That's only because we've never seen the use of the mind-sifter or some of the shadier Imperial Intelligence activities onscreen. There's lots of Klingons that we don't "know" in the regular universe/timeline that would resort to torture and probably enjoy it.
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