Star Trek/Planet of the Apes crossover

[Christopher]

Language variation does seem like a preferable explanation. Perhaps the dominant language changed along with the dominant forehead shape.

Or maybe different groups of Klingons speak different languages simultaneously, as one would naturally expect of any entire species. Maybe the Klingon Empire could be like the Roman Empire, where Latin was the common tongue in the West and Greek was the common tongue in the East.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

Language variation does seem like a preferable explanation. Perhaps the dominant language changed along with the dominant forehead shape.

Or maybe different groups of Klingons speak different languages simultaneously, as one would naturally expect of any entire species. Maybe the Klingon Empire could be like the Roman Empire, where Latin was the common tongue in the West and Greek was the common tongue in the East.

Maybe the bored Klingons at Morska - who clearly aren't averse to a bit of dishonour since they apparently have no issues with suspected smugglers - are even speaking a Jeghpu'wI' tongue. Maybe they're using an odd blended dialect of some thlIngan variant and "Morskanese", just to get cheap jollies out of confusing people or something, stave off the boredom? They might spend their time on Morska chatting to the locals.

 

[loghaD]

Maybe the bored Klingons at Morska - who clearly aren't averse to a bit of dishonour since they apparently have no issues with suspected smugglers - are even speaking a Jeghpu'wI' tongue. Maybe they're using an odd blended dialect of some thlIngan variant and "Morskanese", just to get cheap jollies out of confusing people or something, stave off the boredom? They might spend their time on Morska chatting to the locals.

Actually, Marc Okrand specifically designed the Morskan dialogue to be different from the standard dialect, although primarily in terms of pronunciation.

Or maybe different groups of Klingons speak different languages simultaneously, as one would naturally expect of any entire species. Maybe the Klingon Empire could be like the Roman Empire, where Latin was the common tongue in the West and Greek was the common tongue in the East.

Quite possible. I rather like the idea that Klingons - or at least the warrior caste - regard language as a tool (as was sort of indicated in The Final Reflection), and that Klingons on the Federation borderlands may be equipped with a different set of tools than those who work with internal affairs between core systems.

I usually use this to explain the Klingon chef's dialect, which is very different from the standard dialect. Since others seem to speak it with some skill as well, my guess is that it's a prominent trade language or some such.

I wouldn't be surprised if a penchant for language acquisition were considered a meriting quality for a prospective military governor to have.

 

[BillJ]

Personally I think it's ST VI that doesn't mesh well. That whole "scrambling through printed books" gag was idiotic and undermined Uhura as a professional (after 30 years as a communications officer in Starfleet, it's nonsense that she wouldn't be fluent in Klingon), and I prefer to ignore it.

Actually, I don't think Uhura was ever show to be a linguist. Just because she mans the communications console doesn't mean she would be a linguist, especially in an age of universal translators. She always came across as more of an engineer, to me, in TOS.

 

[loghaD]

Personally I think it's ST VI that doesn't mesh well. That whole "scrambling through printed books" gag was idiotic and undermined Uhura as a professional (after 30 years as a communications officer in Starfleet, it's nonsense that she wouldn't be fluent in Klingon), and I prefer to ignore it.

Actually, I don't think Uhura was ever show to be a linguist. Just because she mans the communications console doesn't mean she would be a linguist, especially in an age of universal translators. She always came across as more of an engineer, to me, in TOS.

That's a fair point. In modern-day militaries, the roles of communicator and interpreter are usually separate, I believe. And in Star Trek, the role of interpreter would usually be filled by the Universal translator.

Furthermore, being able to communicate as much as she did using books does suggest at least a basic familiarity with the language. Try handing me a Burmese or Kanien'kéha dictionary and see how much sense I make.

Still, it would have been nice if Uhura had gotten that chance to shine. Well, for Uhura-fans, anyway, but we're probably not a key demographic.

 

[Idran]

Didn't Nichols complain about the scene during production, and Meyer insisted specifically because he thought it'd be funnier? I know I've heard that before.

 

[JD]

Yeah, even though I love TUC, that scene has always bugged me to.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Or maybe different groups of Klingons speak different languages simultaneously, as one would naturally expect of any entire species.

in the ST III novelization, Vonda McIntyre had Kruge speaking to Valkris, Torg and Maltz in "high Klingon", IIRC, which the underlings on his bridge didn't understand.

 

[Kelso]

Personally I think it's ST VI that doesn't mesh well. That whole "scrambling through printed books" gag was idiotic and undermined Uhura as a professional (after 30 years as a communications officer in Starfleet, it's nonsense that she wouldn't be fluent in Klingon), and I prefer to ignore it.

Actually, I don't think Uhura was ever show to be a linguist. Just because she mans the communications console doesn't mean she would be a linguist, especially in an age of universal translators. She always came across as more of an engineer, to me, in TOS.

She wasn't a linguist, she was the radio operator.

 

[Christopher]

It's true that Uhura's linguistic skills were appended to the character in novels rather than coming from canon, but then, so was her first name. She was given so little characterization onscreen that the extracanonical material played an important role in defining her character among fandom -- as evidenced by the fact that the Abramsverse version of Uhura is basically the novel version, a gifted linguist named Nyota. So when TUC showed her as being completely inept at translation, it was an unflattering portrayal in comparison to many fans' image of her. You can argue that it wasn't a continuity violation, but that doesn't mean it isn't a disappointing interpretation of Uhura. Given the choice between Novel Uhura, with her keen mind and linguistic expertise, and Original Movie Uhura, who didn't exhibit many skills beyond fan dancing, I'm not at all surprised that Abrams and his team went with the former.

 

[BillJ]

You can argue that it wasn't a continuity violation, but that doesn't mean it isn't a disappointing interpretation of Uhura.

Why would it be a disappointing interpretation of the character? She is shown to be very capable at her job in TOS, she just isn't shown to be a linguist.

I'm not against the character evolving as different creators write them. But, to hold it against a movie because they choose one interpretation (the TV series) over another (the novels) is silly.

The read I always had for the books is that they simply couldn't read a straight translation from the universal translator. Because the translation would be very proper and come across as such. YMMV.

 

[Idran]

You can argue that it wasn't a continuity violation, but that doesn't mean it isn't a disappointing interpretation of Uhura.

Why would it be a disappointing interpretation of the character? She is shown to be very capable at her job in TOS, she just isn't shown to be a linguist.

I'm not against the character evolving as different creators write them. But, to hold it against a movie because they choose one interpretation (the TV series) over another (the novels) is silly.

The read I always had for the books is that they simply couldn't read a straight translation from the universal translator. Because the translation would be very proper and come across as such. YMMV.

But it wasn't done for the sake of Uhura; like I mentioned earlier (and since checked to make sure I remembered right), Nichelle Nichols herself thought it was a dumb scene, that linguist or not it made no sense for the senior comm officer on the ship of the line to not know the language of the Federation's leading enemy for 50 years. Meyer didn't keep it for any in-universe reason, but purely because he thought it'd give a laugh; the "universal translator" comment was just a toss-off rationalization.

Honestly, it's basically the equivalent of the "I know this ship like the back of my hand *knocks self out on a beam*" scene with Scotty in ST5.

 

[Christopher]

You can argue that it wasn't a continuity violation, but that doesn't mean it isn't a disappointing interpretation of Uhura.

Why would it be a disappointing interpretation of the character? She is shown to be very capable at her job in TOS, she just isn't shown to be a linguist.

As I made very clear already, I wasn't talking about TOS. I was talking about how fandom had come to perceive Uhura over the years thanks to her portrayal in tie-in novels and comics, and how that created a popular perception of Uhura that went far beyond the limited portrayal of the character in TOS. By the time TUC came out in 1991, the idea of Uhura as a skilled linguist (among other competencies) was well-established in many fans' minds. Again, as I already explained, since TOS had established so little about Uhura, fandom had filled in the gaps with what tie-ins and fanfiction provided. It shouldn't be that hard to comprehend why fans who had that well-established image of Uhura would see TUC's unflattering portrayal of Uhura's translation abilities, reducing her to the butt of a very unfunny joke, as a worse version of the character than the one in their minds.

I'm not against the character evolving as different creators write them. But, to hold it against a movie because they choose one interpretation (the TV series) over another (the novels) is silly.

That's not what I'm saying. It's not about the series versus the novels. It's about whether Uhura -- the sole female member of the core cast, remember -- is portrayed as capable at her job and worthy of respect or as a background player whose only really distinctive accomplishment in six movies is a fan dance. The movies did not serve Uhura well as a character. You can't seriously be incapable of understanding why many fans would like the tie-in version of the character better. It's not about nerdy continuity gatekeeping arguments of show vs. tie-in, it's about whether a specific character is well-handled or not.

But it wasn't done for the sake of Uhura; like I mentioned earlier (and since checked to make sure I remembered right), Nichelle Nichols herself thought it was a dumb scene, that linguist or not it made no sense for the senior comm officer on the ship of the line to not know the language of the Federation's leading enemy for 50 years. Meyer didn't keep it for any in-universe reason, but purely because he thought it'd give a laugh; the "universal translator" comment was just a toss-off rationalization.

Honestly, it's basically the equivalent of the "I know this ship like the back of my hand *knocks self out on a beam*" scene with Scotty in ST5.

Exactly. It's dumb humor that undermines the characters. Again, the studio execs wanted to copy TVH because it had been so profitable, and TVH showed the characters struggling comedically with basic 20th-century tasks, so in the next two movies they were required to struggle comedically with basic 24th-century tasks. But while the former was understandable for people finding themselves in a foreign environment, the latter requires them to be incompetent in their own comfort zones, and that just doesn't work.

 

[Villordsutch]

My review of the latest issue of Star Trek / Planet of the Apes.

http://www.flickeringmyth.com/2015/03/comic-book-review-star-trekplanet-of-the-apes-3.html

 

[Enterpriserules]

I personally have just found nothing to like about this series. It's so unoriginal and bland with our main TOS characters acting more like fresh academy grads than seasoned officers. I mean no one on the team realized both Chekov and Taylor were missing? Really? Really?

 

[Sto-Vo-Kory]

I personally have just found nothing to like about this series. It's so unoriginal and bland with our main TOS characters acting more like fresh academy grads than seasoned officers. I mean no one on the team realized both Chekov and Taylor were missing? Really? Really?

I'm feeling lukewarm about this series, as well.

The highlight of each issue, for me, are the essays written by Dana Gould in the back pages. Much more entertaining than the plodding storyline of the comic.

 

[Enterpriserules]

I personally have just found nothing to like about this series. It's so unoriginal and bland with our main TOS characters acting more like fresh academy grads than seasoned officers. I mean no one on the team realized both Chekov and Taylor were missing? Really? Really?

I'm feeling lukewarm about this series, as well.

The highlight of each issue, for me, are the essays written by Dana Gould in the back pages. Much more entertaining than the plodding storyline of the comic.

Just makes me wish they were putting their time into something more interesting. Like a TNG, DS9 or ENT comic.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

Just makes me wish they were putting their time into something more interesting. Like a TNG, DS9 or ENT comic.

I'm puzzled by the lack of a Next Generation comic. Except for Picard and Q's appearances in the recent Star Trek story arc, I don't think IDW has done a NextGen comic since the Doctor Who crossover three years ago. I don't see any reason why there isn't an ongoing series, unless IDW has concerns about doing a post-Nemesis or post-Countdown comic with half of the NextGen characters missing.

 

[Sto-Vo-Kory]

Just makes me wish they were putting their time into something more interesting. Like a TNG, DS9 or ENT comic.

I'm puzzled by the lack of a Next Generation comic. Except for Picard and Q's appearances in the recent Star Trek story arc, I don't think IDW has done a NextGen comic since the Doctor Who crossover three years ago. I don't see any reason why there isn't an ongoing series, unless IDW has concerns about doing a post-Nemesis or post-Countdown comic with half of the NextGen characters missing.

IDW's last in-series TNG-only comic (Ghosts) and post-series TNG comic (Hive) were both met with tepid reviews on comic sites and forums. That poor of a reception from readers generally translates into poor sales figures for the books themselves.

TNG/Doctor Who sold very well (according to a few retailers I've spoken with), despite its highly polarized reviews.

IDW sees that crossovers sell well, so we get more crossovers between properties. IDW sees that TNG comics don't produce high sales figures anymore, so no more TNG comics.

I don't think that the quality of the previous series (which was, admittedly, pretty lousy) or their settings (in-series or post-series) really matter to the ultimate decision makers at IDW. If TNG is identified as a poor performer, IDW isn't going to continue making TNG comics. Period.

 

[Enterpriserules]

Just makes me wish they were putting their time into something more interesting. Like a TNG, DS9 or ENT comic.

I'm puzzled by the lack of a Next Generation comic. Except for Picard and Q's appearances in the recent Star Trek story arc, I don't think IDW has done a NextGen comic since the Doctor Who crossover three years ago. I don't see any reason why there isn't an ongoing series, unless IDW has concerns about doing a post-Nemesis or post-Countdown comic with half of the NextGen characters missing.

IDW's last in-series TNG-only comic (Ghosts) and post-series TNG comic (Hive) were both met with tepid reviews on comic sites and forums. That poor of a reception from readers generally translates into poor sales figures for the books themselves.

TNG/Doctor Who sold very well (according to a few retailers I've spoken with), despite its highly polarized reviews.

IDW sees that crossovers sell well, so we get more crossovers between properties. IDW sees that TNG comics don't produce high sales figures anymore, so no more TNG comics.

I don't think that the quality of the previous series (which was, admittedly, pretty lousy) or their settings (in-series or post-series) really matter to the ultimate decision makers at IDW. If TNG is identified as a poor performer, IDW isn't going to continue making TNG comics. Period.

Even though it is not TNG that is the poor performer, it's just uninspired storytelling that is the issue.