I believe what people are really objecting to is the gore, not the violence. Apparently they are crossing the line because the reality of violence is being shown. Perhaps if it's just superhero violence it would be ok.
I haven't seen Picard so I can't comment on it. I'm not someone who doesn't enjoy some violence in his movies. I enjoy 80's action flicks, Death Wish, Dirty Harry, and Robocop. I like seeng the good cop take down the bad guy. That being said I have a real hard time with depictions of torture and sadism in movies. I don't know why anyone would choose to take pleasure in watching dramatized torture or sadism. Being desensitized to it is not healthy.
Agrees. In my experience, kids are much more traumatized by emotional suffering than straight up gore. My kids will cry when I read the Velveteen rabbit. Gratuitous splashes of gore? They don’t bat an eye.
TOS tried to push the envelope on that but was limited by the censors and the special effects of the time. We saw characters whipped to the point of bleeding, tortured via various neural devices, beaten, sexually assaulted (by Kirk on a few occasions), electrocuted, chained up, struck with iron bars, placed in a vacuum chamber, burnt. Then we had TNG with Chain of Command, with Picard being assimilated and Remmick's head exploding, DS9 with young Nog traumatised having his leg blow off amongst the more notable events of the war, VOY with Tuvok being tortured, Archer being tortured in ENT, everyone and their dog being tortured and even eaten in DSC.
It's a slippery slope and anything will go now unfortunately. I say this as someone who enjoys some degree of action and violence in his entertainment. Where I draw the line is the kind violence I saw in Boardwalk Empire or in the torture sequences of the retarded man in Denis Villenueve's Prisoners.
I just re-watched Season 1 of TNG and I had forgotten how up-front they were about some of the abuse Tasha suffered. For as prudish as TNG became as time went on, It certainly started out much less so. Actually mentioning rape-gangs and having flashbacks where men were chasing Tasha? I don’t mind that, exactly, as it was a legitimate part of her background, but I can’t see how any of that was clearly better/safer for kids than the eyeball scene.
Not seen either, but frankly the worst, most disturbing, scenes I've encountered have all been IRL (kinda goes with the job). Movie makers, no matter how far they push things, will never get close to the visceral reality. I don't believe TV is to blame for societies problems, nor do I believe in patronising children by either presenting them with a world free of danger or (worse, IMHO) a world where danger is a sanitised, throwaway thing. Violence is horrific and should be presented as such if we are to do it honestly, a truth that hundreds of generations have lived amongst without the luxury of modernity and stylised comic book violence.
Movie/cartoon violence is not same thing as real life violence. Kids are better off learning the difference sooner than later.
Yes, fictional violence.. Like Clone wars with the jedi's cut down droids or other things.. I mean.. I'm not saying we go back to 20 years ago where they change words like, I'm going to Kill you to I'm going to destroy you.. or a robot called Deathscythe Hell and the people revolt at the mention of Hell.. Just saying.. Yes.. its on a streaming service, and they can show.. well anything they want.. but Star Trek.. while not being a show that is made for kids.. but kids that are 6.,7,8 or so do watch it.. and just asking.. if a bit of violence, or other things mentioned is needed for the story.. that fine, but don't go to far to the point of a Rated R movie.. Don't need to keep it Disney.. but PG would be nice.
Cool. Come by and feel free to raise my kids anytime. Nights and weekends are preferred, I could use a break raising my special needs son who doesn't grasp the full nuance of "make believe" just yet.
I agree that violence should be portrayed realistically but that's not a licence to show every perverted thing another human can do to another. What people choose to invite into their ears, eyes, hearts, and minds will affect them.
Patronizing implies that you are demeaning their intelligence and maturity. Parenting, on the other hand, requires you to carefully consider the needs and reactions of your child to internal and external stimuli, including the entertainment they consume. If the stimuli has a consistently negative impact on their development, both mentally and emotionally, a negative impact you cannot moderate through instruction and personal example, you have to remove or severely curtail the stimuli until such a time that you feel comfortable reintroducing said stimuli. Then you start the process again. To add: The comments on violent entertainment somehow being a "unavoidable" part of a child's life remind me of the parenting advice I received that I should "let my kid cry himself to sleep" as it would teach him he couldn't "manipulate my emotions."
Which is the parents responsibility and not the content creators. Just because "Star Trek" doesn't make it OK. Sorry, I don't buy it. I have Marvel movies which my kids are OK with and then there is Marvel streaming, like Daredevil, which they are not allowed to watch, for obvious reasons. By the argumentation in this thread because the Marvel stamp is on it then it should be made for kids. Personal responsibility for what is chosen to watch is tantamount. Sorry, I take "TV-MA" seriously. I review things first, and I make the choice here. Star Trek doesn't get carte blanche because "Star Trek."
Heh ... Kids start "manipulating their parents emotions" the moment they pop out. The question is where do most folks draw the line. In most cases, that 'Line' tends to wiggle back and forth furiously for the next forty or fifty years.
I agree entirely that there is a complex process that comes with raising children. Parents shouldn't overwhelm kids with "reality." OTOH, children should at least know that they will have to deal with difficult truths at some point, whether they involve death, or sex, or drugs, or discrimination, ... . Again, using my son as an example, I've told him I want him to watch "Saving Private Ryan" and "Schindler's List." It took two years for him to agree to the former. He's still not ready for the latter. Nevertheless, I think that watching them will help him grow. I don't think that what we saw in the last episode of Picard has the same merit, but it is not without purpose--lives are being destroyed because of the treatment of the Borg. It reveals something about the vulnerability of displaced people.
Not to be that guy, but I will. Kids are trying to meet needs. It is not manipulation like adults do. Sorry, small quibble, but the term manipulation can (not saying you are) carry negative connotation.
Absolutely, but given that my children are going to see violence in the media my own feelings as both a parent and a forensic mental health professional are that portrayals of violence which sanitise violence or minimise the consequence are more concerning than honest portrayals which present it as something damaging to be averse to. I'm a pacifist and it seems my children are all adopting a similar stance, they've been treated as intelligent beings who can view material and make their own value judgements, they've all learnt at an early age about the realities of life and death, they've all raised animals and seen them die (including for food - we have friends who live on farms and/or are self sufficient in that regard). That, for most of human history and in most of the world, represents lessons which could not and should not be avoided and our current Western bubble of maintaining a comfortable and artificial arm's length from that is to me far more dangerous. I'd also argue our violent crime rates bear me out. When we see Steve Rogers pummelled by Thanos and get up essentially unharmed apart from being a bit breathless and limping for a few seconds that concerns me because it renders the violence throwaway, casual, harmless. As a parent I feel far more need to intervene there and have the conversation that that isn't realistic because there's an implicit lesson which I hope my children will be able to see for what it is, the result of Hollywood polish and a public squeamishness over what is, essentially, honesty.