Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 3x08 - "Surrender"

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Picard' started by Commander Richard, Apr 5, 2023.

?

Engage!

  1. 10 - Excellent!

    33.1%
  2. 9

    26.8%
  3. 8

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  4. 7

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  5. 6

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  6. 5

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  7. 4

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  8. 3

    0 vote(s)
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  9. 2

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  10. 1 - Terrible!

    0.8%
  1. Cox of Seagulls

    Cox of Seagulls Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    The more I think about this episode the more I like it.

    "I feel.... I *feel*"

    Absolutely beautiful. What a gift from the writers, to Data and to the audience. And it feels earned and not arbitrary.
     
  2. Lord Garth

    Lord Garth Admiral Admiral

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    I don't think so. But I'd prefer not to have an explanation. All I can think of is that scene from Clerks where they're talking about who built the Death Star.

    And a little mystery is good sometimes.
     
  3. BBC 2 6pm

    BBC 2 6pm Commander Red Shirt

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    Yeah fair enough! I just wish someone would at least mention it though. "Do we know anything about that ship, any vulnerabilities? Sorry sir the design specs don't match any known shipyards..."

    It was more egregious in Nemesis, of course.
     
  4. Mike Doyle

    Mike Doyle Commander Red Shirt

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    I don’t think we’ve ever seen a ship that needs lots of people to make it work.
    The bulk of people on any given federation ship that we’ve seen are scientists etc to do the stuff that is the mission not to fly it.
     
  5. Kirby

    Kirby Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I really liked it, but the whole Jack/scary door thing seems unnecessary. Maybe it'll pay off in the last two episodes, but that was what I didn't like about season 2 with Picard going through something similar.
     
  6. Vger23

    Vger23 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    This is the most consistently good season of Star Trek in the franchise. That may not be entirely fair, because obviously 26 episodes vs. 10 is a much different game...but still, the raw fact remains. 2 episodes to go, and this is Star Trek's best season so far (with apologies to all the LD and SNW fans...).

    The other thing is that, despite some of the TNG actors having been out of the game for so long, the performances in this show are really good. Jonathan Frakes has actually been rock-frigging-solid since day one. LeVar Burton was fire last week and great again this week. Brent Spiner can still turn personalities on a dime. And, the new cast has been great as well.

    7.5/10
     
  7. Citiprime

    Citiprime Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    It's specifically shown and stated that these Changelings had their physiology changed at Daystrom to where they have internal organs and are specifically different than Odo and the OG Changelings.
     
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  8. BBC 2 6pm

    BBC 2 6pm Commander Red Shirt

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    Sorry I have to disagree there. I am enjoying it a lot, but I'm on TNG season 5 at the moment and that's just hit after hit.
     
  9. BBC 2 6pm

    BBC 2 6pm Commander Red Shirt

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    Mayyybe. But on the D, for example, there are a lot of random ensigns in gold manning consoles (and getting blown up during battles). They seem to have jobs that involve keeping the ship running. And just the fact that you need a couple of shifts (Changelings do need to regenerate) also bumps the numbers up a lot.

    The Defiant is a small warship and wouldn't have any of those scientists you are talking about, and Sisko says (during its battle with the Lakota) that it has a crew of 50.
     
  10. KamenRiderBlade

    KamenRiderBlade Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Weren't they more Bicep bands then wrist bands?

    I don't remember them ever wearing those devices on their wrist.
     
  11. Ovation

    Ovation Admiral Admiral

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    Crew numbers are arbitrarily chosen for plot purposes (whether for a single episode or a season or a series). The ships need precisely as many people to run them as the story requires.

    The Cage—around 200.
    TOS—around 400. Seems like a suitable number. We’re told it’s a big ship.
    TNG— around 1000. Bigger ship.

    And so on. Crew size (and ship size) is elastic. For the needs of the story. Did the story NEED hundreds of crew on the Shrike? Apparently not. And voilà.
     
  12. BBC 2 6pm

    BBC 2 6pm Commander Red Shirt

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    OK I can live with that. But in that case either Vadic either beamed over to the Titan with her entire crew, and left the shields down, or for some reason the crew remaining on the Shrike kept the shields down. I think the story did need to explain this.

    (There seem to have been some deleted scenes... maybe Worf etc murdered the crew and left the shields down?)
     
  13. Racefuel

    Racefuel Commodore Commodore

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    The Shrike is also 30 years younger than even the Defiant.

    We also have seen the Defiant reliably operate with only about 5 people on board.
     
  14. Racefuel

    Racefuel Commodore Commodore

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    Yeah the TOS Enterprise had 400 and Dax said they "really packed them in" on the old ships.
     
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  15. cooleddie74

    cooleddie74 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    And not just "The Cage(TOS)." When the Enterprise shows up at the beginning of DSC Season 2 there's a clearly visible crew complement on the Discovery bridge display that says she has the same complement of 203 that she had five years earlier in the first TOS Pilot.
     
  16. BBC 2 6pm

    BBC 2 6pm Commander Red Shirt

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    In that case the question becomes, why did Vadic take her tiny crew all over to the Titan and leave the shields down?
     
  17. Ovation

    Ovation Admiral Admiral

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    It didn’t need to explain it. Your own speculation works fine and mirrors my own (because I expect to have to connect a few dots along the way in my fiction reading and viewing—I find it somewhat infantilizing to be spoon fed every detail).
     
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  18. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    IIRC in dialogue Burnham gives the TOS crew count.
     
  19. Ovation

    Ovation Admiral Admiral

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    Your earlier speculation is a perfect answer to this question.
     
  20. BBC 2 6pm

    BBC 2 6pm Commander Red Shirt

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    I don't think it's wanting to be spoon-fed every detail, because with the shields they wouldn't have been able to destroy the Shrike. Also if it is empty or just has a skeleton crew, why not try to capture it?

    These are fairly important points to the non-Jack plot, and I'd have preferred to get answers to them.