Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 3x05 - "Imposters"

[jaime]

You're gonna get a brain dump of a few episodes here, not just #5.

I gave up on Picard in season 2, but for some reason I decided to give season 3 a go. And the first episode was quite good, much like the first episode of season 2. Then it just gradually degraded into utter, mind-fuckingly stupid purile bullshit.

It's hard to know where to start. That all Changelings carry around Bajoran buckets because?

But it's the dialogue that is just overly offensive. "Congrats on that!" says a 24th century captain of a fucking flying metal machine. "Hot-dropped the saucer section of the Enterprise D on a planet..." what the fuck is hot dropped? I literally don't know. Hot dropped? Millions of lives were lost unless Picard fixed it, but... hot dropped Riker did for fun. Took the entire civilisation section into a planet because...

"Snog a villager on Ba'ku". SNOG? Are you a 1950s parent? And why does a random captain a) have a command in this state. b) know another captain in a fleet of thousands kissed a woman on a planet in one mission about 20 years?

Because the writers want you to know they watched Star Trek, innit? It makes zero sense on every level for this character, but the writers want you to know they know Star Trek.

Put this into context. You're a manager at Sainsbury's. You meet a fellow manager. You know he worked in one of the other 2000 branches. You heard he kissed the finance manager backer in 2003. And you're goanna comment on that. Fuck off.

"Pot are you on about Cannabis?" Just FUCCKKKK OFFFFFFFFFF.

This is the series that gave us The Inner Light, Darmok, The Visitor, The City on the Edge of Forever... and because someone in the 2400s mentioned the word "pot" the fucking Borg human hybrid thought he was on about cannabis?

Arggghhh...... it's just moronic bullshit.

And TOS moved on from TNG, I know life moves on and modernises. I am becoming the old man unkind to change. But it didn't treat its viewers like fucking clowns like the new shows do. That it can say "cannabis" and all its viewers go ho ho ho ho ho this shit is hot dropping on Veridian 3.

I’m good at defending things, and even I am not gonna go too far on defending these. Did he really say snog? Man I have to revisit.
The only things I can say, is it’s not really a Bajoran bucket, it just looks a bit like one — in that it more closely resembles a vase.
And Shaw is a bit Bones-like in his anachronisms, but yeah the ‘pot’ stuff is annoying as fuck. Fortunately we didn’t then get him hunting edibles and getting the munchies, for that authentic Californian politicking (neither left nor right, either side has its cheech and Chong contingent) on the subject.
I suppose there’s an argument that (a) Shaw used his clearance to access all Picards logs, having a bit of an obsession with the former Locutus, possibly in an attempt to seek solace that the guy really was no longer a Borg and (b) Picard was a kiss and tell in the logs kind of guy.
It’s a handwave, but the rest of the seasons stuff has been pretty good, and more enjoyable than anything in a looooonnng time. Probably since Baku.

 

[AntonyF]

I’m good at defending things, and even I am not gonna go too far on defending these. Did he really say snog? Man I have to revisit.
The only things I can say, is it’s not really a Bajoran bucket, it just looks a bit like one — in that it more closely resembles a vase.
I suppose there’s an argument that (a) Shaw used his clearance to access all Picards logs, having a bit of an obsession with the former Locutus, possibly in an attempt to seek solace that the guy really was no longer a Borg and (b) Picard was a kiss and tell in the logs kind of guy.
It’s a handwave, but the rest of the seasons stuff has been pretty good, and more enjoyable than anything in a looooonnng time. Probably since Baku.

It looked a lot like Odo's bucked. It literally needs to be any receptacle if they need to de-solid.

I get that with Shaw, but we did the Picard-hatred with Sisko. And I accepted that as a setup for DS9. But most normal sopshticated humans would accept that he was violated and not in control.

And that's a weird contradiction with Picard that is clearly very.... 'modern aware', yet will victim-blame an old white man that was raped by the Borg because... well he's old and white.

 

[fireproof78]

Shaw is not normal.

 

[TheMadCloner]

Shelby.

 

[Kzinti]

another good episode but it's a shame they killed ro still it make sense narratively unlike hugh which was pretty pointless and damn jack you sure know how to drop changeling lol

 

[jackoverfull]

Agreed: I really felt her death but, unlike Hugh, it made narrative sense.
Tidbit: in Matalas’ intentions he wanted to reveal she was beamed out at the last moment and held captive by the changelings.m but they had no budget to film this (and a lot of other stuff). All in all I think it’s better this way: she went out in a blaze of glory and this kind of “nobody ever dies” philosophy is kinda the opposite excess of what they did in season 1.

 

[Macintosh]

Agreed: I really felt her death but, unlike Hugh, it made narrative sense.
Tidbit: in Matalas’ intentions he wanted to reveal she was beamed out at the last moment and held captive by the changelings.m but they had no budget to film this (and a lot of other stuff). All in all I think it’s better this way: she went out in a blaze of glory and this kind of “nobody ever dies” philosophy is kinda the opposite excess of what they did in season 1.

And there's nothing to say it didn't happen just because we didn't see it. As President Chekov's father used to say: "hope is never lost... there are always possibilities."

 

[Whizkid]

I never expected Ro Laren to die!

Although marginal in both TNG and DS9, she was such a badass character! Barring Major Kira, Ro!

PIC S3 is now feeling like a Season trying too hard to tie up loose ends from previous series. Sigh. I love it still.

 

[Admiral Qu'irk]

Agreed: I really felt her death but, unlike Hugh, it made narrative sense.
Tidbit: in Matalas’ intentions he wanted to reveal she was beamed out at the last moment and held captive by the changelings.m but they had no budget to film this (and a lot of other stuff). All in all I think it’s better this way: she went out in a blaze of glory and this kind of “nobody ever dies” philosophy is kinda the opposite excess of what they did in season 1.

Lovely to know that the intent was to let her get saved, though the blaze of glory moment is so much in character for sure... it also does add to the tension and claustrophobia, which is what the season needed by this point and it does not fail or disappoint. Probably my favorite since episode 3.

Still wish they'd mention the pink crawdads from "Conspiracy" as season 3 is definitely doing another infiltration routine (third time if my count is right: TNG then DS9 now PIC), but the handling of the nuances and character detail has the whole of it hanging together beautifully.

 

[Admiral Qu'irk]

You're gonna get a brain dump of a few episodes here, not just #5.

I gave up on Picard in season 2, but for some reason I decided to give season 3 a go. And the first episode was quite good, much like the first episode of season 2. Then it just gradually degraded into utter, mind-fuckingly stupid purile bullshit.

Part of me wants to revisit seasons 1 and 2 as, retroactively and with headacanon, the infiltration plot being explored in 3 could make sense. Hard to say...

It's hard to know where to start. That all Changelings carry around Bajoran buckets because?

"I use a bucket. Buckets are cool!" (Proof that the show could sink lower, but it didn't happen that way.)

The bucket hidden behind a bulkhead didn't faze me much. The Bajoran style? Could be influence by the changelings, a scene did suggest they evolved over time and one recurring theme this season (amongst another biggie about mentoring) is how some people change over time. I can roll with it for the changelings...

But it's the dialogue that is just overly offensive. "Congrats on that!" says a 24th century captain of a fucking flying metal machine. "Hot-dropped the saucer section of the Enterprise D on a planet..." what the fuck is hot dropped? I literally don't know. Hot dropped? Millions of lives were lost unless Picard fixed it, but... hot dropped Riker did for fun. Took the entire civilisation section into a planet because...

Some of the slang and profanity can be jarring. It's not as prevalent from what I recall of previous seasons, other characters talk typical, and Shaw was a war survivor. I'm going to roll along with this as well. This is nowhere the level of the apple replicator scene from the other show that truly felt utterly out of place.

"Snog a villager on Ba'ku". SNOG? Are you a 1950s parent? And why does a random captain a) have a command in this state. b) know another captain in a fleet of thousands kissed a woman on a planet in one mission about 20 years?

Shaw definitely read up on the Locutus Picard he hates and conflating Picard the real human with Lucutus the involuntary puppet?

Because the writers want you to know they watched Star Trek, innit? It makes zero sense on every level for this character, but the writers want you to know they know Star Trek.

They're also trying to appeal to younger viewers (20s/30s) along with the generations that grew up on TNG. Also consider how TWOK also had to cater to younger audiences and shaking things up but without straying too far. Meyer, like Matalas, managed to do it IMHO, but I recall TWOK was not universally adored either.

Put this into context. You're a manager at Sainsbury's. You meet a fellow manager. You know he worked in one of the other 2000 branches. You heard he kissed the finance manager backer in 2003. And you're goanna comment on that. Fuck off.

It's not the most complete parallel, like before.

"Pot are you on about Cannabis?" Just FUCCKKKK OFFFFFFFFFF.

Yep, that line was more worthy of a joke from The Orville, but Jeri Ryan's acting manages to carry it long enough.

This is the series that gave us The Inner Light, Darmok, The Visitor, The City on the Edge of Forever... and because someone in the 2400s mentioned the word "pot" the fucking Borg human hybrid thought he was on about cannabis?

Arggghhh...... it's just moronic bullshit.

The line is iffy, yes, but it's not like TIL, Darkmok, Visitor, et al, don't have plot problems or issues of their own. PIC hasn't sunk to the level of "mystery probe from narcissist culture is sent to mindrape one guy then hand out a flue before deactivating because it's said that the probe is designed to seek out only one person." That's far more stupid than the dumb orville doobie joke. Never thought I'd say that...

And TOS moved on from TNG, I know life moves on and modernises. I am becoming the old man unkind to change. But it didn't treat its viewers like fucking clowns like the new shows do. That it can say "cannabis" and all its viewers go ho ho ho ho ho this shit is hot dropping on Veridian 3.

Most of it can be pegged on Shaw's PTSD and related issues. If this were any usual officer, I'd agree with you for sure. And even then I agree the pot joke was pushing it, and wouldn't have worked if anyone but Seven said it.

Other shows have definitely treated their audiences far worse. PIC season 3? Not so much, not that I can really tell so far. (I saw a couple of its episodes when it came out then read up on clips and reviews. Still going in to a lot of this without real knowledge and it's been far better than I was expecting; the people giving positive critiques were not incorrect.)

That said, I now remember a Worf quip from a later episode. I'll get to that in due course as that's another Orville-worthy stinker, but I will easily put PIC3 well above any a lot of The Orville right now concerning character development and consistency...

Edit: and Picard says where are you here Ro? I think he means Laren.

Didn't Picard and crew always call her Ro? This is where I'm fuzzy and need to look up. PIC's other big gaffe was forgetting that Romulan Ale is no longer illegal, but it's not that major a deal. IMHO.

 

[Frightscape One]

Romulan Ale was made legal in season 7 of DS9 (specifically, in "INTER ARMA ENIM SILENT LEGES", Admiral Ross states this), but it could have been made illegal again for whatever reason. It's over 25 years in universe between DS9 season 7 and PICARD season 3, so it's certainly possible a legal thing can be made illegal again given that much time.

 

[Tuskin38]

PIC's other big gaffe was forgetting that Romulan Ale is no longer illegal, but it's not that major a deal. IMHO.

Nemesis did that first.

 

[hbquikcomjamesl]

A tad violent for my taste.

And something kept bugging me about Ro from her arrival to just before her demise, when I realized what it was:

For some reason, she just didn't look Bajoran.

 

[Macintosh]

The embargo on Romulan ale was officially lifted in 2375 when the Romulans joined the Alpha Quadrant Alliance with the Federation and the Klingons, according to DS9: "Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges". There is no mistake with it being legal in either Star Trek: Nemesis or Star Trek: Picard.

 

[GhoulEddie74]

In NEM Worf bemoans that it should be illegal and Geordi counters with: "IT IS." That film had forgotten that the beverage had been made legal during the Dominion War and for the sake of a jokey moment at a wedding. Which, fine, NEM has a hundred other issues which are worse, but still.

 

[jackoverfull]

In NEM Worf bemoans that it should be illegal and Geordi counters with: "IT IS." That film had forgotten that the beverage had been made legal during the Dominion War and for the sake of a jokey moment at a wedding. Which, fine, NEM has a hundred other issues which are worse, but still.

a few years passed since them, they could easily have made it illegal again in the meantime.

 

[Macintosh]

In NEM Worf bemoans that it should be illegal and Geordi counters with: "IT IS." That film had forgotten that the beverage had been made legal during the Dominion War and for the sake of a jokey moment at a wedding. Which, fine, NEM has a hundred other issues which are worse, but still.

The wedding with Wesley and Guinan just sitting there like spare parts? Meh, like that's the biggest issue with Nemesis. My single biggest issue with Picard is that I now have to acknowledge that shitefest as canon.

 

[Headless_Hysteria]

That all Changelings carry around Bajoran buckets because?

I do not think it was meant to be literal.

But it's the dialogue that is just overly offensive. "Congrats on that!" says a 24th century captain of a fucking flying metal machine. "Hot-dropped the saucer section of the Enterprise D on a planet..." what the fuck is hot dropped? I literally don't know. Hot dropped? Millions of lives were lost unless Picard fixed it, but... hot dropped Riker did for fun. Took the entire civilisation section into a planet because...

Shaw is supposed to be abrasive.

"Snog a villager on Ba'ku". SNOG? Are you a 1950s parent?

It could be argued that the Harry Potter franchise re-popularized the word. So, Shaw would be more of a 21st century parent. Or at least a Potterhead.

And why does a random captain a) have a command in this state. b) know another captain in a fleet of thousands kissed a woman on a planet in one mission about 20 years?

Why do the crew of the Cerritoes in LD know that Beverly Crusher banged a candle ten years prior?

I think that’s just how socializing in Starfleet works – they gossip about each other.

Put this into context. You're a manager at Sainsbury's. You meet a fellow manager. You know he worked in one of the other 2000 branches. You heard he kissed the finance manager backer in 2003. And you're goanna comment on that. Fuck off.

Depends on how desperate someone is for small talk.

"Pot are you on about Cannabis?" Just FUCCKKKK OFFFFFFFFFF.


This is the series that gave us The Inner Light, Darmok, The Visitor, The City on the Edge of Forever... and because someone in the 2400s mentioned the word "pot" the fucking Borg human hybrid thought he was on about cannabis?

Although it was very Orville-esque joke, I also think of it as the franchise finally acknowledging the existence of pot in the Star Trek universe. That’s it.

and Picard says where are you here Ro? I think he means Laren.

They all called her Ro. I think Bajorans are usually referred to by their first names when there is a romantic entanglement - see Odo calling Kira by her first name Nerys, and Dukat calling Winn by her first name, Adami.

Romulan Ale was made legal in season 7 of DS9 (specifically, in "INTER ARMA ENIM SILENT LEGES", Admiral Ross states this), but it could have been made illegal again for whatever reason.

Romulan Ale was made legal in season 7 of DS9 (specifically, in "INTER ARMA ENIM SILENT LEGES", Admiral Ross states this), but it could have been made illegal again for whatever reason.

The reason likely was that the war was over, and so was the alliance. So no need to try and continue to foster mutual collaboration for the sake of a unified front.

In NEM Worf bemoans that it should be illegal and Geordi counters with: "IT IS." That film had forgotten that the beverage had been made legal during the Dominion War and for the sake of a jokey moment at a wedding. Which, fine, NEM has a hundred other issues which are worse, but still.

It may have also only been legal for that one-year period, and Starfleet officers stocked up on it, big time.

Note also that Worf is the Federation ambassador to Qo’noS and may not have kept up on Romulan Ale becoming illegal again.

Also on LD, Mariner suggested that Riker can get access to contraband items. So, at least for Riker, it does not matter that Romulan Ale is illegal. He’ll get his hands on it if he can.

 

[Tuskin38]

The wedding with Wesley and Guinan just sitting there like spare parts? Meh, like that's the biggest issue with Nemesis.

Doesn't stop it from being canon.

 

[Happy Hopping]

Just finish watching this episode the 2nd time, the intrepid can't be on fire as it is space, there is no oxygen, so the wrap nacelles can't be on fire.