Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 2x10 - "Farewell"

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Picard' started by Commander Richard, May 4, 2022.

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Rate the episode...

  1. 10 - Excellent!

    30.5%
  2. 9

    24.6%
  3. 8

    16.1%
  4. 7

    10.6%
  5. 6

    3.8%
  6. 5

    3.0%
  7. 4

    2.5%
  8. 3

    3.8%
  9. 2

    1.3%
  10. 1 - Terrible!

    3.8%
  1. Char Kais

    Char Kais Commander Red Shirt

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    The Star Trek Stewart season 2 Q story arc was based on a rejected early draft of "Tapestry" that someone regurgitated.
     
  2. The Rock

    The Rock Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Great season finale! The Borg joining the Federation? Never in a million years did I think that'd happen! But I have some questions I'm still wondering about:

    Why is Rios staying in the past knowing that World War 3 is right around the corner? Who the hell would want to go through something that horrible? There can't be a happy future for him or anyone for the next 30 years.

    Also, was the whole point of sending Picard & friends to the alternate timeline (and then the past) was because Q wanted Picard to help make the right decision when Picard returned to the future? If so, what exactly was Picard doing penance for? How did Picard create that alternate timeline when it was Q himself who sent Picard to there? I'm really confused on that.

    How can a Q die (other than intentionally wanting to die as we saw in that VOY episode "Death Wish")? Did John de Lancie Q intentionally want to die because he was bored of living like that other Q we saw in "Death Wish"?
     
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  3. KennyB

    KennyB I have spoken............ Moderator

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    They landed better than I thought they would. Really enjoyed the 2nd half. The first half stretched my suspension of disbelief a bit. Getting past security at the launch so easy and the 3 minutes from the Soong incident to the launch…….but the appearance of The Traveler and Q/Picard final scenes saved it for me.
     
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  4. MrPicard

    MrPicard Jean-Luc's Loving Husband Premium Member

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    Well, I didn’t get a kiss but I got a very tender scene and a hug that was initiated by JEAN-LUC and not Q (imagine TNG!Jean-Luc’s face if someone ever tells him what his future self is going to do one day, lol). And Jean-Luc telling him that he’s not alone. Aaaagghhh. Right in the SHIPPER FEELS.

    But really, they should just have let Q finally say “I love you, mon capitaine”. I mean I can read gay subtext when I see it but it would have been nice if they had just spelled it out already. “You’re my favorite”. Riiiiiiight. :rofl:
     
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  5. CPT Baldwin

    CPT Baldwin Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I frickin' LOVED this!
     
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  6. MrPicard

    MrPicard Jean-Luc's Loving Husband Premium Member

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    She didn’t say that, exactly. She just said that Laris is leaving and off on her own adventures, just like Laris has also said on the show now, and that Laris is not going to sit around being sad about “the one who got away”. She also posted pics on her Insta when season 2 wrapped and wrote about how she wrapped season 2 and has now ditched her Romulan ears. And since season 3 starred shooting right after season 2 it seemed reasonable to assume that she wasn’t in it.

    HOWEVER - John de Lancie has said that they shot some scenes for season 3 while they were shooting season 2. So, it is entirely possible that Laris will be in season 3 after all - but maybe not in a major capacity since I doubt they had the time to shoot massive season 3 scenes while they were busy with shooting season 2 as well.

    But, of course, we won’t know unless Orla Brady decides to clarify. It seems doubtful tho, that ending was left a bit ambiguously for a reason IMO - we probably are SUPPOSED to wonder what exactly they were going for because I’m kinda sure this is going to play into the opening for season 3 or into season 3 as a whole. Q dropped a few hints about someone now “choosing” Jean-Luc and maybe loving him, after all. (This might just as well refer to that rumored son tho. Or the love his TNG friends have for him. There are many kinds of love, after all.)
     
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  7. nickyboy

    nickyboy Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    It was all just a bit of a mess really. Struggled to stay interested through the season. Hopefully season 3 redeems it.
     
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  8. indianatrekker26

    indianatrekker26 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    man, that hit me hard seeing Rios leave. my guess is at the beginning of season 3, we'll see Captain Annika "Seven" Hansen in command of the Stargazer.
     
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  9. The Old Mixer

    The Old Mixer Mih ssim, mih ssim, nam, daed si Xim. Moderator

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    Why am I reading so much about the SNW premiere in the Picard forum? SPOILER RULES, PEOPLE! Put a lid on it or I hand out some Warnings.
     
  10. Tosk

    Tosk Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Good lord, what a mess of a season.

    Random thoughts. I see a certain someone's acting hasn't improved. It may have even gotten worse.
    The shot when the Renee mask was removed looked pretty odd, they distorted Mitchell's face to be roughly the shape of Orla's and it was quite jarring. And when the mask was lifted, I'm thinking someone forgot that she would look Romulan beneath it and CGI'd her ears in after the fact...but forgot all about her eyebrows. After all that season-long hubub, I confess to feeling nothing. And I'm curious, I'd love to see a breakdown of exactly what was Matalas and what was Goldsman. I'd like to get an idea if I should severely lower expectations for season three or be cautiously optimistic.

    And now on to SNW. Which is super heavy on the Goldsman. Give me strength, fingers crossed.
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2022
  11. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Admiral Admiral

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    Yes

    So I was 25% right. No Jurati, no Rios, Elnor was there but not for the reason I thought.
     
  12. MrPicard

    MrPicard Jean-Luc's Loving Husband Premium Member

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    *clears throat* If I may interpret this… because Jean-Luc can be extremely difficult to read when it comes to romantic stuff because he’s always a bit awkward about it and you have to read between ALL the lines AND know him very well…

    What think is going on here is that Laris has decided she’s leaving. Jean-Luc respects her decision because he’s not a dude who makes everything about “ME ME ME and MY feelings”. He knows he has hurt her with his earlier rejection and he’s careful to not hurt her again by pushing her into any kind of direction (hence his innocent question about where she’s off to, it’s basically him screaming LARIS DON’T GO, but yeah, that’s Jean-Luc for you, did I mention that I love him just BECAUSE he’s so complicated?). She tells him she’s off on her own adventures which is a good enough answer for him, he doesn’t push her for details. More respect for her and her wishes. All he does then, and THAT is new, he actually tells her (in his own way) that, if she wants to give him a second chance, he’s here and ready for it. He basically leaves the entire decision up to HER, which is something very Jean-Luc but also new because HE is usually the one who runs away. But not anymore. This is probably what Sir Patrick meant when he said that Jean-Luc is “now able to make commitments” he couldn’t make on TNG.

    Of course, this still kinda leaves everything in the open because Laris said she was leaving. Could go either way, we could have a wedding at the beginning of season 3 (which would kinda explain the presence of the TNG crew because they would definitely be invited) or Laris is really leaving and season 3 will bring in totally new emotional challenges for Jean-Luc.

    Whatever it is, they’re not done with him, that much is pretty certain from comments I’ve read from both Sir Patrick and John de Lancie about how Jean-Luc still struggles with emotional things in the third season.
     
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  13. Deks

    Deks Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    That's what I always thought too.
     
  14. eschaton

    eschaton Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    And so Picard Season 2 ends as it was for most of this season - mediocre.

    As a season finale, I actually thought this was fine. While some people are complaining about unanswered threads, I thought it wrapped up things much, much neater than I thought was possible. Yes, in a lot of cases it was done with a single throwaway line of dialogue (like finally explaining why Renee's mission ended up being important) but a tremendous amount of stuff happened this episode to draw things to a close.

    Honestly, the pacing here makes no sense. We had many episodes in the middle of the season where absolutely nothing important happened. Here we get the central conflict of the season easily resolved within the first 20 minutes (more like 15 if you take into account the recap and opening credits) with the remainder of the runtime set aside for a very long series of denouements. I would argue it would have been better if this finale was split across 2-3 episodes, with Soong's final stand stretched out, then the aftereffects in 2024, and finally turning that 5-minute crisis in the 24th century into a standalone episode. But what's done is done.

    The one good thing about Soong being utterly defeated so quickly is we get the worst part of the episode done with first. We know all of the tension here is artificial, and there is no question that our heroes will prevail. It's also the worst scripted portion of the episode, by far, with lots of lines where the characters say things which are completely obvious and thus unnecessary. So much more could have been done with less here.

    This was not...quite...the ending I was expecting. I really believed that somehow the Confederation timeline needed to exist as well. Others predicted Tallinn standing in as Renee though, so bravo. Honestly it was a much simpler ending, where in the end there really was just one timeline, and everything they did in the past had already happened. A few things still don't make sense to me (like if it was the correct timeline, why didn't Guinan recognize Picard in 2024?) but I can forgive those because it's now come out Matalas basically abandoned the series and handed it over to Goldsman, so it was a small detail lost in the production schedule most likely.

    The emotional climax of the episode was of course Picard and Q's meeting. I liked it, but I really wish they could have gone one further. It's been obvious for decades thar Q is in love with Picard, and he came so close to saying it, but backed off at the last second. I know it was implied heavily, but it could honestly be seen as queerbaiting by the type of people who like to "ship" as they say.

    I have no idea why the hell they stuck that completely unnecessary Wesley scene in. Really, Wil Wheaton said for decades he wouldn't reprise Wesley, and he comes back for this??? Kore didn't need an ending as a character, so this was entirely unneeded.

    I'm sounding negative, but still, I think as a finale, it worked better than Season 1 (which was garbage, aside from the amazing Data scene). I think it worked better than most of the Discovery finales as well. The problem is while it's a suitable finale for the season, which resolves all of the story issues in a satisfactory manner and (mostly) restores the status quo, it's still just an okay episode viewed on its own (though much better in quality than the mid-season).
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2022
  15. Captain pl1ngpl0ng

    Captain pl1ngpl0ng Commodore Commodore

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    this was a beautiful season and a great last episode.
    so.. season 3:
    does the borg-ship become some kind of a spacestation guarding the wormhole(ds9) ?
     
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  16. Campe

    Campe Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Thats a very long way of saying “Yeah, she’s still leaving.” But thank you for the insight! :beer:
     
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  17. Ar-Pharazon

    Ar-Pharazon Admiral Premium Member

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    Wesley the Watcher!!!!!!!!!!

    I had absolutely NO idea that was coming. There are still unspoiled surprises in the universe.
     
  18. MrPicard

    MrPicard Jean-Luc's Loving Husband Premium Member

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    lol yeah I have THOUGHTS about this, lol. But also, Orla Brady DID use a lot of words in her interviews about the subject :D which is totally legit and cool because actresses and actors who use a lot of words regarding their characters and their motivations tend to really try and get into the heads of their characters and are therefore very good at playing them! Still, it might simply mean Laris is leaving NOW… but nothing is stopping her from potentially coming back ;)
     
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  19. Deks

    Deks Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Could very well be.
    They could probably make a new Trek series from that alone with UFP individuals starting to mix in with these new Borg and cooporating with them.
     
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  20. Deks

    Deks Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    It was a pleasant surprise.
    Some people say it was unneeded fan service, but if you ask me, it made sense the Travellers with their control over time would employ some species to make sure certain people's 'destinies' actually occur.
    And also, Wesley is human. Though the Traveller did show the ability to change his appearance in late TNG (when he picked Wesley up to go with him), its possible this detail was lost.

    Although I have to say I didn't get the impression that Kore was particularly brilliant or 'deserving' to be a Traveller... being a daughter of Soong and being educated by him would probably lend her a hand in the intelligence department... but the screen time we got with her was too brief to determine if she was 'special' enough to become a Traveller.
     
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