Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 1x10 - "Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2"

[The Old Mixer]

Funny enough to see that when he says in "Naked Now" "If you prick me do I not bleed?" Cut to First Contact and being shot several times. Apparently he got over that bleeding thing.

It was "leak" in his case. He got over that leaking thing.

Wellll, yeah... sorry about that. Social revolutions, and devolutions, don't happen overnight, and, as Garry Trudeau recently reminded me, this one has been going on for a while. A good thirty years now. Just as the Civil Rights Era had its seeds in the 50s and beyond, the social conflicts of the Millennial Age can be traced back to previous decades.

I can't deny it...but I can disavow it. This social revolution will self-destruct in five seconds. Good luck, Boomer!

On the contrary, it's not much of a self sacrifice if you're about to die anyway. That aspect of it would have had more impact if he had already been given his robo-bod. Aside from the imminence of the situation requiring Soji to make that choice, I think the message is that you've got to keep at it. People may ignore your speeches or laugh at them or be affronted by them, but eventually you might get through. Never give up! Never surrender!

But he was, with his actions, hastening his death. Which plays right into what you're saying a couple of quotes below. Does the fact that he had a terminal disease make his life less precious?

Of course, that Starfleet showed up and and protected the planet was also a major factor in convincing Soji (and through her, presumably, the other synths). And that owed entirely to Picard's persistence.

I guess. But it was kind of presented that way.

I think it was only meant to be a clue that Picard was dreaming. All the attempts to interpret it were clearly running too far with it.

I don't know if that was a part of Gene's vision, but I disagree either way. The human adventure has always ultimately come down to a battle with entropy. Rather than embrace the mortality of fetal demise, childhood deaths, starvation, disease, conflict, and old age, we've built (or are building) a civilization based on public health and safety, an infrastructure of abundance, peace, and science and medicine to keep nature at bay, with the goal of longer and better lives. I don't see why there should be a line where we say no more of that.

There's been much discussion in these parts of how Gene decreed, regarding the TNG episode "The Bonding," that in the 24th century, kids wouldn't grieve the loss of a parent. And fighting mortality, extending a still finite existence, is one thing...embracing immortality is really a completely different thing. Something we've never had to deal with.

 

[Nyotarules]

One could also make the argument Picard was giving him a merciful death. I prefer to think, and I still believe, that everything I stated before and what we saw on screen is the real reason.

He sacrficed himself for his Captain in Nemesis, his death had meaning, it did not need another one

 

[Gonzo]

He sacrficed himself for his Captain in Nemesis, his death had meaning, it did not need another one

I considered Data to be officially dead before Picard was released, seeing his actual death in the show was not really necessary but perhaps Brent insisted on it to close the door on the character once and for all.

It must be a real chore having to go through all that makeup when he was younger never mind now, much easier for him to play an actual person like Altan every now and then instead.

I can certainly appreciate that some will have issue with the scene but it didn't bother me at all.

 

[Nyotarules]

^I can appreciate the real life reason for another Data death, but if the character was not a part of the show I would not have missed him, but then I am not a Dataphile.

 

[Jadeb]

I dunno. Data’s ghost hung over every episode of this thing, so it’s not like he showed up out of the blue. That criticism could be more easily directed toward Seven, IMO — that she was brought in just to please fans, had very little plot importance and could have been excised to make more time for other things.

 

[Gonzo]

I dunno. Data’s ghost hung over every episode of this thing, so it’s not like he showed up out of the blue. That criticism could be more easily directed toward Seven, IMO — that she was brought in just to please fans, had very little plot importance and could have been excised to make more time for other things.

Its highly likely that Seven will become more important in future seasons especially as a bridge to bring in more Voyager characters, same goes for Elnor.

I want to know how long it took for Seven to become so bored by Chakotay that she switched sides, asking for a friend.

She was never going to be able to compete with his Spirit Animal anyway.

 

[Longinus]

Nature does. Babies aren't asked if they wanna get their telomeres reduced XD

But usually the parents try to ensure that their babies will live as long as possible. There merely are some things that they cannot control.

And Picard's normal lifespan was restored, not reduced.

At that point his normal lifespan would have been indefinite.

And what is 'normal'? There is very little 'normal' in being transferred into an android body. People with the 24th century medical tech can live to be 140. Is that normal? Is it normal that we can expect to live twice as long as the cavemen? At what point life extending medical technology becomes abnormal?

 

[Gonzo]

Picards body swap doesn't bother me.

If we take what Altan and Agnes says at face value then Picard has really only had a brain transplant, of course there is no such things as a brain only transplant due to the connected spinal cord and central nervous system so everything else had to be replaced as well.

Personally I think Altan and Agnes chose their words carefully when explaining to Picard and assuring him that he is 100% normal, after all there is no true limit to life expectancy in the 24th Century as we saw with McCoy, its more about the quality of life than how long it lasts as they can replace pretty much everything else besides the brain, spinal cord and central nervous system.

Picard isn't immortal by any stretch of the imagination but I do think his life expectancy is considerably more than he has been led to believe.

It wouldn't surprise me if they locked away a few bonuses that will reveal themselves when the circumstances require it.

 

[Nyotarules]

A Soong that actually helped a Captain of an Enterprise. This may be a first!

Yeah, yeah, Arik helped the crew of the NX-01 escape from Orion captivity at the slave market but then turned on them all and escaped with his Augments. So he didn't really "help" as much as do what he needed so he could get away.

I was glad he was not a non moutstache twirling evil baddie. Arik, Noonien, A.I were all different as all of us are when to comes to our relations and their personalities

 

[Turtletrekker]

I was glad he was not a non moutstache twirling evil baddie. Arik, Noonien, A.I were all different as all of us are when to comes to our relations and their personalities

I did enjoy the little misdirect though. Alton introducing himself as a "mad scientist", and being understandably distraught over the death of Saga, his "niece", making him open to summoning the super synths in order to protect his "family" made me certain that he was going to be a bad guy.

I felt a little bad for him when he realized that his synthetic kin were capable of all the same irrational and illogical actions as humans were.

 

[11Alive]

Data didnt want to be immortal. Ok, so make his new body not be immortal. They ended up doing that with Picard anyway.

Just like in the Robin Williams movie Bicentennial Man.

 

[TimeIsAPredator]

To me it looked like Data's choice to die was in part due to being stuck inside his own subconscious for 30yrs ya he could have entered the golum but was ready to go

 

[Gonzo]

Yeah there is an argument for that, if Data had been outside and able to interact he may not have chosen death at all.

It is what it is though, Data's story is over and done, that is probably also true for Lore even though we haven't seen him.

 

[137th Gebirg]

If I was stuck in that bland little box for 30-some years, I think I’d probably be ready for a profound change too. Jus’ sayin’...

 

[TimeIsAPredator]

Yeah there is an argument for that, if Data had been outside and able to interact he may not have chosen death at all.

It is what it is though, Data's story is over and done, that is probably also true for Lore even though we haven't seen him.

But now we get Sojis story. Lovin, learnin, gettin angry and going all River Tam on everyone

 

[Yminale]

People complaining about Picard's mind transfer seem to forget about Data's mom. Soong gave his wife a limited life span when he transferred her mind to her android body.

 

[AlanC9]

Just like in the Robin Williams movie Bicentennial Man.

At least that plot point came over from the Asimov story intact.

 

[Makarov]

People complaining about Picard's mind transfer seem to forget about Data's mom. Soong gave his wife a limited life span when he transferred her mind to her android body.

Soong wasn't a nice guy though.

I wish we had at least one scene of Data meeting Soji

 

[fireproof78]

There's been much discussion in these parts of how Gene decreed, regarding the TNG episode "The Bonding," that in the 24th century, kids wouldn't grieve the loss of a parent. And fighting mortality, extending a still finite existence, is one thing...embracing immortality is really a completely different thing. Something we've never had to deal with.

My view on this is that it is a natural progression of such an attitude. That to be mortal and to die is a part of humanity. As Gene said "Death is a part of life."

Despite the protests against Picard and Data's death I think it is perfectly keeping with what Trek has presented as it concept of humanity.

 

[Samurai8472]

So both Picard and Professor X died and had their consciousness transferred into new bodies?

They should've had Picard in a wheelchair when he was recovering after getting his new body. If they wanted a 24th century equivalent, it could've been a hoverchair.


I would have LOL'd if Picard 2.0 needed a wheelchair to get his bearings first.