Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 1x10 - "Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2"

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Picard' started by Commander Richard, Mar 25, 2020.

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Rate the episode...

  1. 10 - I'm sending the writers orchids!

    31.7%
  2. 9

    26.0%
  3. 8

    15.9%
  4. 7

    7.6%
  5. 6

    5.1%
  6. 5

    2.2%
  7. 4

    4.4%
  8. 3

    3.2%
  9. 2

    1.6%
  10. 1 - Crash and burn!

    2.2%
  1. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk A Spock and a smile Premium Member

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    You fight with what you got.
     
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  2. Spock Must Diet!

    Spock Must Diet! Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    But you only have to worry about the first 108.
     
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  3. DEWLine

    DEWLine Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I'll support that request.
     
  4. ThreeEdgedSword

    ThreeEdgedSword Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Sheer Fucking Hubris
  5. GilmourD

    GilmourD Commander Red Shirt

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    Was it just me or was the eye that Jurati pulled out a bit more organic than expected? Data wasn't like that.
     
  6. Gov Kodos

    Gov Kodos Admiral Admiral

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    Nexus 6 Synths be like that.
     
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  7. ThreeEdgedSword

    ThreeEdgedSword Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Oh boy. I watched it a second time and really, the whole main stopping-the-Destroyer plotline has more plot holes than swiss cheese and less logic than... uh, swiss cheese. I loved the Picard/ Data scenes and some other parts, but those two last episodes were the weakest of the season for me. 7 because I feel generous.Except that I can't change my vote anymore, oh well.
     
  8. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk A Spock and a smile Premium Member

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    How are we defining "plot holes" this week?
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2020
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  9. Lord Garth

    Lord Garth Admiral Admiral

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  10. SolarisOne

    SolarisOne Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    That sounds lifted straight from a Voyager episode.
    That sounds like something SFDebris would say.
     
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  11. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I prefer those manual controls.
     
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  12. Kevman7987

    Kevman7987 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Wasn't Data initially more bio-mechanical in TNG? That's why he caught the PSI2000-analog sickness from being "fully functional" with Tasha in The Naked Now. Of course he was retconned into being 100% mechanical by the time of DataLore.
     
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  13. Greg Cox

    Greg Cox Admiral Admiral

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    Yep. As established, they have mucous and everything. :)
     
  14. cooleddie74

    cooleddie74 Arguably The Best Poster Named cooleddie Moderator

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    Data may not have had mucus but that would explain why he had such trouble imitating sneezing. ;)
     
  15. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Funny enough to see that when he says in "Naked Now" "If you prick me do I not bleed?" Cut to First Contact and being shot several times. Apparently he got over that bleeding thing.
     
  16. Lt. LaForge

    Lt. LaForge Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    He was always there. One of the criticisms of Nemesis is the lack of "finality" of Data's death because of the existance of his memories and experiences in B4. Remember him whistling that tune? They had to put an end to it, and they did it perfectly...
     
  17. Thomas Elliot

    Thomas Elliot Commander Red Shirt

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    You could easily interpret it, in one of three ways:
    1) they were setting it up for the next installment, Star Trek: The Search for Data
    Data was a fan favorite, the Spock of TNG, so no way there were going to just kill him off for good if the movies were still making money. This was there way of saying, he's not really gone...he'll be back.

    2) If they would have made another Star Trek film, Brent Spiner may have returned as B4, a "younger," less wise Data-like android, and that would have been a new angle for the writers/producers to work in.

    3) he clearly did die, and B4 whistling was signifying that Data's "...not really dead if we remember him." He lives on in B4 as a memory, just like TNG as this generation's saga ends. Just like Lal died, but she lived on in Data's memory banks. In fact, Data downloads his memory into B4 in order to help him become more mature and not a mentally stunted child. Once he does that, it's not like there's two Datas. But PIC changes it so that Data has actually been stuck in limbo this whole time.

    Star Trek: Picard in a way, is an exercise in not being able to let go. Data already died, but they need some fan-service, something to lure the old fans in, so they bring back Data just to kill him off again for a cheap sentimental moment. They kill off Picard, also for a cheap sentimental moment, only to bring him back 5 minutes later, all in an effort to keep the franchise afloat via PIC S2. Dahj is killed off in the first episode. But it's okay because she's back as her identical twin Soji! In fact, it seems like they made up the sentient-androids-needing-to-be-created-as-twins rule JUST so they can shock the viewers with one of the main character's death in the first episode.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2020
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  18. Tarek71

    Tarek71 Commodore Commodore

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    A copy of his memories was there. There was no end that was needed to that. It's just stored information on a hard drive. The writers decided that Data's mind/consciousness was reconstructed and that this consciousness was now living in a holographic program. They did not have to do that. The reason they did it is obvious. To have a final encounter with Picard. And then have a tear jerking death scene. It was emotional, but unecessary and manipulative. It also lacked some logic to it.

    Data didnt want to be immortal. Ok, so make his new body not be immortal. They ended up doing that with Picard anyway. If they were going to do this, I would have had Picard say that has already had a long full life. This time, he will give up his chance for an extended life for Data, as Data once did for him. But the show is called Star Trek: Picard, so that was not going to happen.

    For those who love what they did, that's great. For me, it didnt land.
     
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  19. NCC-73515

    NCC-73515 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    LAFORGE: Data, this has got to bother you a little.
    DATA: On the contrary. I find it rather comforting.
    LAFORGE: Comforting?
    DATA: I have often wondered about my own mortality as I have seen others around me age. Until now it has been theoretically possible that I would live an unlimited period of time. And although some might find this attractive, to me it only reinforces the fact that I am artificial.
    LAFORGE: I never knew how tough this must be for you.
    DATA: Tough? As in difficult?
    LAFORGE: Knowing that you would outlive all your friends.
    DATA: I expected to make new friends.
    LAFORGE: True.
    DATA: And then to outlive them as well.
    LAFORGE: Now that you know that you might not?
    DATA: It provides a sense of completion to my future. In a way, I am not that different from anyone else. I can now look forward to death.
    LAFORGE: I never thought of it that way.
    DATA: One might also conclude that it brings me one step closer to being human. I am mortal.
    (Time's Arrow, Part 1)

    Finally fulfilled here!

    Nature does. Babies aren't asked if they wanna get their telomeres reduced XD
    And Picard's normal lifespan was restored, not reduced.

    Prick me, do I not... leak? XD
     
  20. RJDiogenes

    RJDiogenes Idealistic Cynic and Canon Champion Premium Member

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    Wellll, yeah... sorry about that. :rommie: Social revolutions, and devolutions, don't happen overnight, and, as Garry Trudeau recently reminded me, this one has been going on for a while. A good thirty years now. Just as the Civil Rights Era had its seeds in the 50s and beyond, the social conflicts of the Millennial Age can be traced back to previous decades.

    On the contrary, it's not much of a self sacrifice if you're about to die anyway. That aspect of it would have had more impact if he had already been given his robo-bod. Aside from the imminence of the situation requiring Soji to make that choice, I think the message is that you've got to keep at it. People may ignore your speeches or laugh at them or be affronted by them, but eventually you might get through. Never give up! Never surrender! :D

    I guess. But it was kind of presented that way.

    I don't know if that was a part of Gene's vision, but I disagree either way. The human adventure has always ultimately come down to a battle with entropy. Rather than embrace the mortality of fetal demise, childhood deaths, starvation, disease, conflict, and old age, we've built (or are building) a civilization based on public health and safety, an infrastructure of abundance, peace, and science and medicine to keep nature at bay, with the goal of longer and better lives. I don't see why there should be a line where we say no more of that.