• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 1x09 - "Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 1"

Rate Star Trek: Picard 1x09 - "Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 1"


  • Total voters
    244
Intersting when someone dislikes an episode it's:
"Yup. Kurtzman is ruining Trek again..."

But when they like it:
"Chabon IS AMAZING!!!"

Here's the issue with that Michael Chabon IS THE SHOWRUNNER <--- He says what goes in the series this season.

Second, Patrick Stewart had a great deal of input front to back for everything in this season.

BTW - The Writing credits for Ep. 9:
Teleplay: Michael Chabon & Aeylet Waldman
Story by: Michael Chabon & Aeylet Waldman & Akiva Goldsman

Alex Kurtzman is nowhere on the writing credits, so you can't blame Kurtzman for this one.

It looks to me like at the beginning of the season, the "love" for Picard matched the "hate" for Discovery. A few episodes in, that wore off, then they disliked Picard as much as Discovery. Now the balance has tipped even further. They dislike Picard more than Discovery.

In other words: There was the euphoria that Picard was back, then it wore off, now resentment has seeped in. I noticed this particularly from "Stardust City Rag" on, this has been more and more the case. So you say you're seeing people say, "STD sucks! STP rules!" I saw this for the first episode. But that's not the situation I'm seeing at the end of the season.

Of course there are also people who like PIC who don't like DSC, but it's no different than what normally happens going from one series to the next. You gain some people, you lose some people, then you get them back. ENT lost me (well, technically it was late-VOY, but let's not split hairs) and then DSC gained me back. So it's the same thing in this case.
 
Last edited:
I hope Riker shows up leading a Federation fleet that has finally come to its senses.

I'm dreading that, but I think it's highly likely.

To have such a promising season culminating in synths being bad and the federation riding in to save the day is quite a letdown.

If they're going to go the Discovery route of having promising ideas drop off a cliff of an abrupt, confusing attempt at fan appeasement, they may as well have the fleet led by Riker, Captain Worf and Captain La Forge.
 
According to Chabon, there is no empire. The empire fragmented into successor states, with the Romulan Free State being the largest and strongest, because of the support of the Tal Shiar.

https://www.instagram.com/stories/highlights/18134558401031871/

The fact that I have to read Chabon's Instagram account to get some sense of the world that this series takes place is indicative of how badly the world building has been for the series.

I'm sorry, but the presence of other Romulan states is interesting texture, but it's not important info to the story being told. Not at all.

Like, I would love to know who the Presidents of the United Federation of Planets have been for the past 30 years. Last we saw was Jaresh-Inyo in 2372. DS9 Season Seven established his term had ended, but we never found out which Federation President led the UFP through the Dominion War, which Federation President got the synth ban passed, or whether that Federation President is still in office. These would be lovely details.

They are absolutey not important to the story in PIC. And neither is the detail about the Romulan Free State being just one of several post-supernova Romulan states.

The whole Maddox thing isn't making sense to me right now and just raises more questions that will never be answered. Why did he leave? When his lab was destroyed why didn't he just go back to the planet instead of going to Free Cloud? Did the Romulans find out about Dahj and Soji, and the fact that there were more synthetics, from that destroyed lab? Why did he send Soji to the cube? Why did he have her (and Dahj's) memories wiped?

The answers to several of these questions to me are already implied by what we've seen onscreen. I'm sure several answers will also come in the next question.

Seriously, this complaint is not about unanswered questions; this complaint is about you wanting answers spelled out for you in a giant infodump as though that's "good writing."

How did OH find out about the synthetics that Rios' ship encountered in the past?

The episode explicitly established that Rios's C.O. had reported contact with Beautiful Flower and Jana, and that Oh was the officer in Starfleet Security who received his report and then ordered Flower's and Jana's murders.

Seriously, pay attention to the text.

Why did Dahj have a vision of Picard's face? Was she programmed to go to him if she was in trouble?

This is a prime example of a question that was already answered in "Remembrance" but you wanting it explicitly spelled out in an infodump. Yes, Dahj was programmed to go to Picard if she was in trouble, because whoever created her (later revealed to be Maddox) trusted Picard to protect her.

The Romulans and their fate have been a huge part of this show, and the info Chabon gave helps my inner world-building,

It helps my inner world-building, too, but it's not actually relevant to the story being told. We already have all the info we need: We know from what we have seen onscreen that the Romulans are scattered and disunited ("Absolute Candor"); we know that the Romulan Free State is the major successor government and that the Tal Shiar is embedded within the RFS ("Maps and Legends"); we know the RFS is more open than the Star Empire was by its willingness to allow Federation scientists and doctors aboard the Artifact instead of just claiming the cube for themselves, but we also know that engages in authoritarianism itself (the Trill doctor complaining about her visa being held up for no reason) and that the Tal Shiar still has carte blanche to do what it wants ("Maps and Legends," "The Impossible Box"); we know the Zhat Vash have been manipulating Romulan society for centuries due to their mis-understanding of the Admonition ("Maps and Legends," "Broken Pieces," "Et in Arcadia Ego, Part I"); we know that the Tal Shiar has infiltrated Starfleet itself ("Maps and Legends"); etc.

Like, seriously -- what part of the story didn't make sense just because you didn't hear about the existence of the Romulan People's Liberation Front and the Romulan Liberation People's Movements over in Sector 220-E?

That seems like crappy writing to me, or at least him using the format badly. The individual "fragments" of your television story shouldn't confuse your audience before they've seen the entire thing.

He was talking about the mechanics of Instagram Story posts, not the story he wrote for television.

Jesus, people.

What he meant was that the mechanics of Instagram Stories are such that only he can see the message another Instagram user sent him and he is unable to share most of that message when posting his own response as an Instagram Story. That's why he then spent the next several sentences attempting to summarize the message that had been sent to him for the benefit of third party readers.

But what does the artifact have to do with the synth ban? I guess on the borg cube to try to get information from Romulans?

Seems pretty obvious to me that after Beautiful Flower and Jana were murdered by a Starfleet captain, Maddox suspected that there was a conspiracy within Starfleet linked to the attack on Mars and to the Romulan rescue fleet. To this end he sought to place Soji aboard the Artifact and Dahj in Daystrom, to try to figure out where the conspiracy was coming from and who was behind it.

I got this from the text of the episodes themselves.

Why did Maddox care about the truth of the synth ban

Are you seriously asking why a man who dedicated his entire life to studying and replicating synthetic lifeforms might want to know the truth about the ban?

or how did he come to suspect Romulans and Starfleet were part of the Mars attack (Seems to be just Oh - How did Maddox (and Raffi) come to suspect this?

You really need it spelled out for you that the guy who created the Martian synths and therefore knows how their brains work would suspect someone else's involvement when they go crazy and kill people?

I'm just not buying that almost 10 years after the mars attack he put an android on a borg cube and on earth to find the truth about the ban because there isn't any setup or explanation for it.

There's plenty of setup. You're just not paying attention.

What was he going to do if the twins found out Starfleet and Romulans were working together? Report it to the public?

Probably! That would be the most effective way of undermining Tal Shiar infiltration of Starfleet.

You also said in your post that "He didn't return to Coppelia for fear of leading enemies there, perhaps." Your perhaps at the end proves my point. The show didn't explain it and it doesn't make sense.

It makes perfect sense, and it was explicitly stated in the show that Maddox didn't want to lead anyone to Coppelia.

Was anyone surprised that Sutra turned out to be evil? She just gave out to me such an evil villain vibe from the moment she first appeared on screen that I was absolutely sure that she isn't nice like Data.

To me, she gave off more of a "sci-fi pacifist enlightened being" vibe at the start.

And I don't think she's evil. Look at things from her perspective: The first time they tried to make contact with organics, her twin sister was brutally murdered by a Starfleet captain. The next time she comes into contact with organics, they show up, tell her that her father (Maddox) is dead and one of her other sisters is murdered; there's a fleet of organics coming to exterminate them all; and the one guy who's promising to try to protect them, is the dude the Federation government pissed all over when they betrayed the Romulans.

From Sutra's perspective, it's not unreasonable to think of all organics as basically violent creatures or as potential threats, and it's understandable that she might be so messed up from the violence inflicted upon her family as to develop a "screw them all" attitude. That doesn't make her good or acceptable, but I don't think she's intrinsically evil. She's someone who is terrified -- and terrified people often make horrible decisions they later regret.

Sutra is basically the female Lore.

No. Lore was a rabid dog; Sutra is a cornered animal. They may both lash out at you, but they lash out for different reasons.

And about Hugh what was Picard meaning with “to turn such a gentle soul to violence”?

Hugh was going to commit an act of mass violence against the Tal Shiar forces aboard the Artifact and probably against the RFS fleet when he seized control of the cube. I think his actions would have been justified, but they were also clearly regrettable. Picard was not judging him; he was sad that the universe had so abused a gentle soul like Hugh as to oblige him to turn to violence. And you are making way too big a deal of this one line. It's absurd and it's based on deliberately obtuse refusals to interpret the line in context.
 
I really wish people would only speak for themselves, not try to explain to me what I should feel about/ need to know fo the story. It borders on mansplaining.
Was anyone surprised that Sutra turned out to be evil? She just gave out to me such an evil villain vibe from the moment she first appeared on screen that I was absolutely sure that she isn't nice like Data.
Yeah, if not her sleazy behaviour, the sexy outfit was a dead giveaway for "evil"!
 
I'm dreading that, but I think it's highly likely.

To have such a promising season culminating in synths being bad and the federation riding in to save the day is quite a letdown.

If they're going to go the Discovery route of having promising ideas drop off a cliff of an abrupt, confusing attempt at fan appeasement, they may as well have the fleet led by Riker, Captain Worf and Captain La Forge.

I've already seen the season finale. Berman and Braga were brought back to recreate their "These Are the Voyages" magic, to give the fans exactly what they want -- Picard and company being saved at the last minute by Captain Chakotay, Captain Kim, Captain Tuvok, Admiral Pulaski and Wesley Crusher, five of the most beloved and developed Trek characters of all time.
 
I mean I think there are definitely cases in larger franchises where a writer or producer is giving fans what they want. I do think there is a degree of fan service. Big space battle next week is fan/general audience service.
If the writer/producer WANTS to "give fans what they (think they) want"--sure. But they should NEVER feel obliged to do so, nor should the fans EVER feel ENTITLED to "getting what they want" in any sense that implies fans need be consulted or listened to regarding creative choices made by the artist (broad sense of artist). All the fans are "owed" is the thing itself--they bought a ticket, they're owed a movie (or the equivalent for TV). They are most definitely NOT "owed satisfaction" with the result.
 
1. I'm really tired of convoluted plots. Everywhere. I'm reasonably intelligent. I watch every ep. I now agree with several ppl above: what is the story being told, here? Picard wanted to find Dahj's sister, right? Then . . . get her home? Then? I just lost track of what he (protagonist) has as his main mission.

2. Gold-Soji can mind-meld b/c she studied Vulcans? I thought Vulcans were, y'know, actually . . . telepaths. Can I just study Vulcan culture and become telepathic? I'm in.

3. Another plot where artificial intelligence/life wants to destroy all "life" in the galaxy? Is this the only plot these people know?

4. The online reviewer (mentioned above) likens the synths to X-Men. Seems not too wrong to me.

5. The synths' motivation seems just like the Founders' (Dominion).

I keep wanting really good writing/drama, not just good-for-Star-Trek. I now give up.

I have a season of Better Call Saul to catch up on.
 
So if I'm getting all my sci-fi ducks in a row, currently "everybody" hates Discovery, Picard, and Star Wars and they're all terrible. This about right?
LOL. I don't hate Picard, but I'm frustrated with it and am no longer enthusiastic. Discovery was entertaining, but not really successful with me. I don't watch SW.

Any ideas what I could try? The Expanse? I'm not interested in superhero, horor or fantasy shows.
 
This episode did not work for me. First one of the season I can say that about. It felt like a reused TNG plot. The season's big arc has led us to evil robots once again. Sci-fi has gone to this well far too often and it's predictable.

That said, there were some good moments with Seven, Elnor, Rafi, Agnes and Rios. Not so keen on Dr. Soong's never before mentioned offspring or the female Lore. Perhaps the finale will fix this but all I really want now is Data to return and to move on from Attack of the Synths in Season 2.
 
I really wish people would only speak for themselves, not try to explain to me what I should feel about/ need to know fo the story. It borders on mansplaining.

:rolleyes:

There's nothing as annoying as someone appropriating the rhetoric of social justice in retaliation for someone else pointing out they're full of shit.

And no, it is not mansplaining to point out that a piece of background info is not a necessary part of the story. I never told you how you should feel about the story, but the claim that vital info was missing was just false.
 
I hope next episode, Picard gets to make a big long speech and manages to diplomatically convince the Robo-Federation, Androids, the Federation and Romulans to chill out and make peace. Maybe a few of the Zhat Vash don't agree, but they get blown up; that's fine.

I know we're getting a big space battle, but I don't really want one.
 
Oh, and while I remember, what was the point of Seven and Elnore in this one?

Just when it looks like Seven gets to do something dramatic and clever by turning up with The Artefact to rescue La Sirena, it turns out that all she actually gets to do is to crash the Cube, Deanna-stylee, aided and abetted by some bizarre defensive horticulture (I mean, seriously? This is back in weird-shit TOS and early-TNG territory) and then not much else — although I guess it’s setting up next week’s finale episode by getting all the gang in (roughly) the same place.
 
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top