And more yawn.
Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 1x04 - "Absolute Candor"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
- Start date
they were. about ten pages ago. then we've discussed it. now it's just an endless boring circle.
(and, yes, the majority of circles are by definition endless)
This is the flip side to the endless Mary Sue argument. Both arguments are fallacious and both are unsupported by the show.
Picard can find capable people who would actually do it (i.e., risk their lives on a dangerous -- but important -- mission) strictly because they choose to and not because they feel bound by loyalty and duty. And Picard does find those capable people in Raffi, Rios, and Elnor. They are shown potentially to be as just as capable as Worf, Geordi, and the others.
I mean, it would be quite a dick move by Picard to ask people on a dangerous mission whom he KNOWS would agree to go just because they are loyal to him. Picard knows the right thing to do is to ask capable people who feel no such loyalty and could easily say no to him.
Granted, Worf, Geordi, and the others might have gone along even if they weren't so duty-bound to Picard. However, the point is that Picard can never be sure that it wasn't out of loyalty. And he wants to be sure.
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Ive been soooo wrong! You guys are right. When you are in trouble we ALL always turn to our enemies for help! Whoever cares the least about us is who we should turn to in our hour of need. Never, EVER ask the people who love and care about us for help. Always turn to those who do not give a F about you!
That just makes perfect sense! To hell with the people who care about us, are competent, brilliant and can help us solve the problem. Always ask the people who do not give a F!! They are the best!
That just makes perfect sense! To hell with the people who care about us, are competent, brilliant and can help us solve the problem. Always ask the people who do not give a F!! They are the best!
which reminds me, if Picard is a "moral MS" how can he be dickish?
Indeed.
All explained in the show. All explained in post after post by many board members.
Your bafflement is due to you, not the show.
All right, you don't buy the explanations or rationalizations people are giving you. But why are you characterizing JL's crew as his enemies?
Why would it be bad if it was out of loyalty though? No one does this. No one ever says "I cant't ask the amazing, brilliant people who know me!..I need to ask the people who hate me!"
No one does that. There is no logical or moral rationale for it. "I do not want people who are loyal to me! I only want people who are here bec I stuffed enough latinum in their pockets!"
He's not sending these people on suicide missions. He isn't expecting them to die.
What he is doing is telling each of these people how dangerous the mission might be and letting them decide for themselves whether or not they choose to go (again, withOUT a sense of loyaty to Picard being a factor.
Picard was ready to walk away from Raffi and Elnor after they initially said no. He was disappointed, but accepted their decisions. Picard feels that if he asked his old Enterprise crew, their loyalty to him would cloud their ability to freely say no.
Explained already. Picard doesn't want more guilt. Your failure to get that is all on you.
I think the episode made it pretty clear that Picard didn't want Elnor to go along on the trip initially due to his fondness for him as a boy, his youth, and the risk the mission had for his life. It was the pressing of Zani that got him to relent. She recognized Elnor for what he was - a young man trained to be a warrior with no real cause to live for, trapped in a position/place in life that didn't really suit him.
For the record, the Borg on Ice thing was stupid. That whole subplot drags the show down. More Hugh, less horny Romulan bad guy.
Picard's motivation was understandable. At the same time, it should be noted that Data was probably more distant from Picard than anyone else on the TNG main cast. I mean, a mission to go save "Data's daughter" isn't really a mission for Picard, it's a mission for Data! I'm not sold on the fact that it's up to Jean-Luc, for example, to decide that Geordi wouldn't be able to help do one good deed for his departed best friend.
Because Data sacrificed himself for Picard and JL feels guilty
For a potentially dangerous and life-threatening mission? Maybe they should say "I can't ask the people who would never turn me down."
And he isn't asking people who hate him or getting people to come just for the payday; Raffi and Elnor don't hate Picard. They might have hated a thing that he has done, but they don't hate him.
However, Picard knows they are good and capable people, and that's why he asked them (along with the knowledge that they could say no if they wanted). As for Rios, it is true that he's getting paid, but he was chosen by Raffi, and I suspect that Picard knows Raffi well enough to trust her judgement on Rios.
Yeah, Picard's whole go find the missing daughter (assuming there even is one and hasn't already been destroyed) somewhere in the galaxy was a bit wonky. Better she hadn't died at all and they just went looking for the Romulans after her and left that cube as a reveal later in the series.
