Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 1x02 - "Maps and Legends"

[Commander Richard]

- Didn't like the CGI for the Mars attack. This show has excellent production values and those scenes didn't fit with that. The zoom in on Dahj's apartment window was also a little too AutoCAD.

- I thought that the Romulan spy looked like Peyton List. Didn't know it was her until I read one of the comments here.

 

[Doc Mugatu]

The Federation banned genetic engineering for fear of creating of another Khan. And they were not even involved in the Eugenics Wars!

True, however, Kahn and his kind started a world war and was responsible for the deaths of millions. They were also human. The Synth's were programmed semi-sentient tools. Their behavior wasn't spontaneous or the byproduct of free will or self-determination. From what we've been given it appears to have been indicative of a plot. This Starfleet seems much more reactionary though that is not without precedent.

 

[fireproof78]

True, however, Kahn and his kind started a world war and was responsible for the deaths of millions. They were also human. The Synth's were programmed semi-sentient tools. Their behavior wasn't spontaneous or the byproduct of free will or self-determination. From what we've been given it appears to have been indicative of a plot. This Starfleet seems much more reactionary though that is not without precedent.

With such harm and damage done such a protectionist reaction is understandable.

 

[Doc Mugatu]

With such harm and damage done such a protectionist reaction is understandable.

A mere "bloody nose" as Q would say. It was but one facility. If Starfleet is so easily dissuaded then they really are on the brink of collapse. Such timidity is the antithesis of TOS and TNG.

 

[eschaton]

- Didn't like the CGI for the Mars attack. This show has excellent production values and those scenes didn't fit with that.

That scene was confirmed as being added late in production, which may be why the VFX don't align with the rest of the episode.

 

[Lord Garth]

A mere "bloody nose" as Q would say. It was but one facility. If Starfleet is so easily dissuaded then they really are on the brink of collapse. Such timidity is the antithesis of TOS and TNG.

The decline will be slow and steady. They'll be able to spin it for a while, but then...

Basically, I think the 23rd and 24th Centuries will be seen as the height of the Federation.

 

[ITDUDE]

Rewatched it now second time with SO. Reconfirm score of 10/A+
Great episode, no fillers, no throw away scenes. Great show! What Trek should always try to be.

 

[ITDUDE]

The decline will be slow and steady. They'll be able to spin it for a while, but then...

Basically, I think the 23rd and 24th Centuries will be seen as the height of the Federation.

I hope not. I hope Discovery Season 3 is a closed loop, potential timeline (think AGT, Endgame, etc..) and not Prime timeline that is destined to happen.

 

[Nerys Myk]

The decline will be slow and steady. They'll be able to spin it for a while, but then...

Basically, I think the 23rd and 24th Centuries will be seen as the height of the Federation.

And in a thousand years?

 

[fireproof78]

A mere "bloody nose" as Q would say. It was but one facility. If Starfleet is so easily dissuaded then they really are on the brink of collapse. Such timidity is the antithesis of TOS and TNG.

But very human.

 

[Lord Garth]

I hope not. I hope Discovery Season 3 is a closed loop, potential timeline (think AGT, Endgame, etc..) and not Prime timeline that is destined to happen.

I'm not going to say I disagree with you, as I haven't ruled that out myself.

But when I say height, I mean that in the sense that it won't be all doom and gloom, just a general overall direction with peaks and valleys. It's kind of like when someone says they think the height of Star Trek was the first season of TOS or the third season of TNG. Obviously there was plenty of good outside of those. But those are the times held up as the highest by many.

It's the same idea here, except it's how the Quadrant would view the 23rd and 24th Centuries. If that turned out to be the case. Things seem okay for the Federation in the 29th Century but would that century be held up as one of the "glory days"? Or just another one of those, "Eh, it was okay, not great but not terrible..." kind of times?

 

[11Alive]

Great episode, no fillers, no throw away scenes. Great show! What Trek should always try to be.

I can't say I agree. There were some good aspects to be sure. But I'm not thrilled with all this cloak and dagger, everybody ready to stab everyone else in the back atmosphere. Narek is spying on Soji. Rizzo is angry at Narek. Commodore Oh is ready to shut down Rizzo. This kind of treachery overload is what pushed me away from the Galactica reboot. Even in DS9 with its dark atmosphere and completely mercenary Quark character, there was still a sense that people would work together. Still, the best Trek since the end of Voyager, which wasn't great but was the last genuine Trek before this.

 

[Doc Mugatu]

But very human.

Actually, no. In terms of history that is not in our species character. Humanity has been very stiff upper lip. We get knocked down but never out. We also never turn back on technology. Inspiration and invention is not a linear process.

 

[SJGardner]

Basically, I think the 23rd and 24th Centuries will be seen as the height of the Federation.

And in a thousand years?

A part of me wants to see much of the information about the 23rd-24th centuries being lost in a thousand years just so that we could see archeologists/historians make wildly inaccurate guesses about how it looked like (conflating Picard and Sisko, Dukat being distorted into a god of evil in the Bajor sector, constant arguments about how many Enterprises there were and how they looked like, etc.)...

But on the other hand, one of the reasons I'm not afraid to see the Federation falling in the future would be because they won't disappear without a trace, and just because a civilization collapses it doesn't mean every single achievement of theirs was ultimately for naught. The Federation of the 23rd-24th centuries could be just as much seen a thousand years later as the golden era that gave later generations the fundamentals of their culture, just like we see classical antiquity as the source of our ideals for democracy, science, engineering or art. Who knows, Picard might become known in a thousand years as one of the most significant explorers and statesmen of the Old Federation, and his collected logs would be required reading in history classes.

 

[fireproof78]

Actually, no. In terms of history that is not in our species character. Humanity has been very stiff upper lip. We get knocked down but never out. We also never turn back on technology. Inspiration and invention is not a linear process.

It's not human to become protectionist and want to protect itself? To fear things we can't control?

You are right that invention and technological development do not follow a linear process. The Federation eventually warmed back up to genetic engineering. But, it took time-down, but not out.

The Federation isn't out. But, protecting itself is definitely an understandable reaction.

 

[Gonzo]

I hope not. I hope Discovery Season 3 is a closed loop, potential timeline (think AGT, Endgame, etc..) and not Prime timeline that is destined to happen.

I must admit I dont mind either way but it would solve the timeline/tech issues and Burnham does still have the suit so all she needs are the crystals which will still be available on the Klingon planet in the future.

Her mother may have failed to change events because she didnt go far back enough.

S3 does feel more like a potential future rather than a guaranteed one, it also reminds me of the Iain M Banks novel Feersum Endjinn.

 

[Racefuel]

Actually, no. In terms of history that is not in our species character. Humanity has been very stiff upper lip. We get knocked down but never out. We also never turn back on technology. Inspiration and invention is not a linear process.

That's not really true. There are multiple examples in history where humanity, either portions or in general, have willingly turned their back on technology and other elements after a tragedy or great event or such.

The immediate turn towards protectionism and knee-jerk reactions like banning synthetic lifeforms is an extremely human reaction, if not a typical reaction of all living beings.

 

[cooleddie74]

The Eugenics Wars killed 37 million people on pre-warp Earth and it wasn't even the most violent conflict in human history. The Federation could have allowed genetic engineering to remain legal but they probably thought: why worth the risk? Terrans killed tens of millions of their own population because scientists tried to improve their species through genetic manipulation and we know that Earth isn't the only world in the Federation with a violent past and a recent one at that.

Don't take any chances. They didn't need another Khan Noonien Singh attempting to seize control of an interstellar alliance equipped with advanced spaceflight technology and weapons far more powerful than what 1990s Earth ever had.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

My only complaint is that when they are telling a story over 10 episodes, we are going to get some "filler." That's what I thought this episode was. What they should do is drop all 10 episodes at once, so we can binge watch them, instead of having to wait a week for a measly 42 minutes. These episodes should be at least one hour long.

How is moving the plot forward and expanding background "filler"?

I think of this as more of an establishing episode. Fleshing things out with some backstory, giving us a little more information.

Ferengi episodes on DS9 were filler, and a lot easier to pull off with a 24 episode season.

 

[Racefuel]

I think of this as more of an establishing episode. Fleshing things out with some backstory, giving us a more information.

Ferengi episodes on DS9 were filler, and a lot easier to pull off with a 24 episode season.

More or less the way I view it.

Episode 1 was backstory

Episode 2 is establishing future plot points and base plates

I imagine Episode 3 we'll start seeing more genuine forward progress and less house keeping