Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 1x02 - "Maps and Legends"

[Kevman7987]

Hmm. So this time it did turn out to be a Romulan plot, a ploy to start a war. Q can't say no twice now.

 

[Crewman6]

I'm not assuming anything. That event, Crusher diagnosing Picard, takes place in the "anti-time" timeline which Picard found himself in at Q's creation. At the end of AGT Picard is taken back to the very start, Stardate 47988, and none of it happened, he goes back to his quarters after being very awkward with Worf and Troi. There was no reason to think it was ever based in reality as it was a device that Q used to test Picard. Now in the true timeline we see that it was indeed there.

Also, "pointlessly cruel"? Q created a future where Troi was dead and Worf and Riker were estranged. Crusher and Picard were divorced? That's not pointlessly cruel yet Picard having a brain defect would be?

The events of All Good Things were not a Q fantasy. They were actual events that happened in reality. The timeline was "reset" at the ending, but it was never just bullshit. Hence why the characters were worried about foreknowledge "muddying the timeline" at the end of the episode.

 

[Discofan]

Romulans! They're so predictively treacherous!

 

[fireproof78]

Eh, being reset sounds like "bullshit" to me.

It was just another Q lesson for his favorite plaything.

 

[Racefuel]

Its also entirely possible that some in Starfleet agree with the Zhat Vash and help them without being members,

100% possible. Remember Adm Cartwright and others conspired with the Klingon traitors to assassinate Gorkon and frame Kirk for it. That's the part that people who scream about how it's not right that the vision of the Federation in Picard is so unrealistic..it ignores what happened in TUC.

 

[Kevman7987]

Romulans! They're so predictively treacherous!

It seems to be their biggest flanderization, I mean, flaw.

 

[eschaton]

I'm saying that the Commodore is also a romulan

I rewatched the episode. Rizzo calls her a "useful ally" - which is a weird thing to say if someone is part of your clandestine organization.

So what is she? Regular Tal Shiar?

 

[Spicy Thunder]

Spoiler

But was the experimentation really what was happening? Or was that a supposition? I just went back and watched the scene with the "experimentation." The only thing they were doing was removing the Borg parts of "the nameless." Based upon what's happening in that scene, based on Hugh's appearance here, based on why Soji is involved in this project, it seems to me that the more public task is to save the former drones one by one. What the Romulans are doing behind the scenes (because you know they are doing something) is much different. Not to add to that, the fact that they identified the director in a mysterious form as just "the director" suggests that its someone we know. It makes sense its Hugh, not only from that perspective but also from that of him being a former drone who obviously went through the same procedures himself, it absolutely makes sense that he would have a vested interest in their survival and their reacclimation into society. Even if it means making a deal with the Romulans. Does he know all that's going on on the Cube? Probably not, which is why we see him in promos helping Picard and Soji off the Cube. I do wonder if he won't make it out there with them as well.

Spoiler: E3

So Now I'm thinking you are right, because I found the synopsis for E3 and It follows along with the clip:
Episode 3 – “The End is the Beginning” Synopsis: Completely unaware of her special nature, Soji continues her work and captures the attention of the Borg cube research project’s executive director. After rehashing past events with a reluctant Raffi, Picard seeks others willing to join his search for Bruce Maddox, including pilot and former Starfleet officer Cristóbal Rios (Santiago Cabrera).

 

[Racefuel]

The events of All Good Things were not a Q fantasy. They were actual events that happened in reality. The timeline was "reset" at the ending, but it was never just bullshit. Hence why the characters were worried about foreknowledge "muddying the timeline" at the end of the episode.

So I guess we'll see if ships in Picard hit Warp 13 then, if it was based in reality and was not a Q bullshit fantasy.

 

[thribs]

But Akaar wouldn't be saying what she said; Akaar would save the Romulans (especially since they were post-war allies).

Exactly. He isn’t a dick.

 

[Racefuel]

The events of All Good Things were not a Q fantasy. They were actual events that happened in reality. The timeline was "reset" at the ending, but it was never just bullshit. Hence why the characters were worried about foreknowledge "muddying the timeline" at the end of the episode.

Also I would love to know why the -D was still in service if it wasn't a bullshit fantasy, given the fact that through no foreknowledge..the Enterprise-D was destroyed, as was Romulus not destroyed because it was conquered by the Klingons.

 

[Yistaan]

Also I would love to know why the -D was still in service if it wasn't a bullshit fantasy, given the fact that through no foreknowledge..the Enterprise-D was destroyed, as was Romulus not destroyed because it was conquered by the Klingons.

That's easy, as Picard's testimony of Data's future could have changed the timeframe of when Data installed emotions (if he did at all in the AGT future). Data's emotional instability led to the Ent-D's destruction.

No explanation on Romulus though. Only thing I could think of is that possibly Spock's plan actually worked in AGT because things happened differently in AGT (Kirk's death didn't weigh on him because it would have been different or he didn't die at all in the AGT timeline as the Ent-D isn't destroyed).

 

[Lakenheath 72]

Unlike the first episode of this series, I am having issues with playing the video for the latest episode. Are other people having the same issue? Either it won't play or it freezes.

 

[Crewman6]

Also I would love to know why the -D was still in service if it wasn't a bullshit fantasy, given the fact that through no foreknowledge..the Enterprise-D was destroyed, as was Romulus not destroyed because it was conquered by the Klingons.

Because the writers didn't know what the future of the franchise was going to be. The wrote themselves a convenient excuse for how the real future would be different from the future in AGT. However, at no point did anyone, Picard or otherwise, consider his experiences to be "just shit Q made up."

In fact, Q specifically says that HE was responsible for Picard traveling through time. And only that. Not that he made the whole thing up or that it was just a test. Moving PIcard was his contribution to the events that happened, his "helping hand." The rest was reality as it happened.

 

[Racefuel]

That's easy, as Picard's testimony of Data's future could have changed the timeframe of when Data installed emotions (if he did at all in the AGT future). Data's emotional instability led to the Ent-D's destruction.

No explanation on Romulus though. Only thing I could think of is that possibly Spock's plan actually worked in AGT because things happened differently in AGT (Kirk's death didn't weigh on him because it would have been different or he didn't die at all in the AGT timeline as the Ent-D isn't destroyed).

Okay, so let's unpack that.

Data installed his emotion chip because of the incident on the holodeck during Worf's promotion ceremony. He installed the chip to help better understand why it was inappropriate and not funny. Presuming that Picard told Data about his emotions in the anti-time future, presumably all that means is that Data would know that at some point he gains emotions. In a odd act of unintended consequences and the butterfly effect..I guess that could be some sort of explanation, but it doesn't really change certain other things..unless Soren dies during the attack on the Armagosa (sp) Observatory following the Romulan attack, so as a result there is no intervention by Lursa and B'etor, etc.

But then it leads to the question of the Borg invasion of 2373 and the fact that the primary reason the Borg were defeated was the arrival of the Enterprise-E after the cube had already been severely damaged by the federation fleet. I'm not sure an un-upgraded 1701-D would have brought the smack down needed for that.

 

[Cap'n Calhoun]

TNG had numerous examples of big epic melodrama where the worst word uttered by far was "dammit".

I'm not a fan of the profanity, but this simply isn't true. Picard used stronger profanity on many occasions: He just said it in French to slip it past the censors.

EDIT: Sorry, word for word what you said *is* true: That happened numerous times. But if what you're implying is that that's the *strongest* profanity they used, then please note the above.

 

[Yistaan]

Okay, so let's unpack that.

Data installed his emotion chip because of the incident on the holodeck during Worf's promotion ceremony. He installed the chip to help better understand why it was inappropriate and not funny. Presuming that Picard told Data about his emotions in the anti-time future, presumably all that means is that Data would know that at some point he gains emotions. In a odd act of unintended consequences and the butterfly effect..I guess that could be some sort of explanation, but it doesn't really change certain other things..unless Soren dies during the attack on the Armagosa (sp) Observatory following the Romulan attack, so as a result there is no intervention by Lursa and B'etor, etc.

But then it leads to the question of the Borg invasion of 2373 and the fact that the primary reason the Borg were defeated was the arrival of the Enterprise-E after the cube had already been severely damaged by the federation fleet. I'm not sure an un-upgraded 1701-D would have brought the smack down needed for that.

Data knowing he gets emotions eventually (from Picard's stories) could have him delay the installation longer than he originally intended.

Worf and Troi quickly call off their relationship after finding out what happened in AGT. In the AGT future, Worf and Troi's relationship continues unhindered. Data then could have installed his chip right then and there to better observe relationships with his own emotional reaction or something (Data actually wants to feel happy for them or something), and he could have controlled his emotions by the time Soran came along, meaning the Ent-D is never destroyed. There are still quite a few months between AGT and Generations.

 

[Cap'n Calhoun]

I'm not assuming anything. That event, Crusher diagnosing Picard, takes place in the "anti-time" timeline which Picard found himself in at Q's creation. At the end of AGT Picard is taken back to the very start, Stardate 47988, and none of it happened, he goes back to his quarters after being very awkward with Worf and Troi. There was no reason to think it was ever based in reality as it was a device that Q used to test Picard.

So here's the dialogue of Picard and Crusher in the "present":

CRUSHER: Jean-Luc, I scanned for evidence of Irumodic Syndrome, as you suggested. There wasn't any. But I did find a small structural defect in the parietal lobe.
PICARD: A defect that you hadn't noticed before?
CRUSHER: It's the kind of defect that would only show up on a level four neurographic scan. It could cause you to be susceptible to several kinds of neurological disorders including Irumodic Syndrome. Now, it's possible for you to live with this defect for the rest of your life without developing a problem. Or even if you do, many people continue to live normal lives for a long time after the onset of Irumodic Syndrome.
http://www.chakoteya.net/NextGen/277.htm

So... Yes, it's technically possible that Q altered Picard in the present to add that defect, which would be a secondary reason why it had never shown up before. Just seems like that would be kind of a random change not clearly related to larger scheme he was pulling off, and the implication seems to be that this was a defect that was preexisting in the "regular" present (in order to be preexisting in the alternate one as well). And, while it's not out completely out of the realm of possibility (I mean, this is Q), I can't really see why the new show would deserve criticism for not running with that assumption...

 

[Racefuel]

So here's the dialogue of Picard and Crusher in the "present":

CRUSHER: Jean-Luc, I scanned for evidence of Irumodic Syndrome, as you suggested. There wasn't any. But I did find a small structural defect in the parietal lobe.
PICARD: A defect that you hadn't noticed before?
CRUSHER: It's the kind of defect that would only show up on a level four neurographic scan. It could cause you to be susceptible to several kinds of neurological disorders including Irumodic Syndrome. Now, it's possible for you to live with this defect for the rest of your life without developing a problem. Or even if you do, many people continue to live normal lives for a long time after the onset of Irumodic Syndrome.
http://www.chakoteya.net/NextGen/277.htm

So... Yes, it's technically possible that Q altered Picard in the present to add that defect, which would be a secondary reason why it had never shown up before. Just seems like that would be kind of a random change not clearly related to larger scheme he was pulling off, and the implication seems to be that this was a defect that was preexisting in the "regular" present (in order to be preexisting in the alternate one as well). And, while it's not out completely out of the realm of possibility (I mean, this is Q), I can't really see why the new show would deserve criticism for not running with that assumption...

Right..but more so the point I was trying to make is similar to the message that was in Star Trek 09...

Certain things were always going to happen..it's "destiny" as it were, in some sense in the Star Trek universe.

My point is that it's not at all unreasonable for Picard to have that structural defect..now like you said..was it always there..or was it added by Q?

Will we see Q in Picard, will the AGT future be a point of contention in Picard?

As Picard says in AGT..."the sky's the limit"

 

[thribs]

Out on Amazon now.