Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 1x02 - "Maps and Legends"

[eschaton]

I thought it was kind of amusing that Narek and Dahj were so covered up in bed -- they're both wearing both tops and bottoms! My first thought was that the showrunners were burned by the reaction to the nudity in Discovery, but then this episode gave us profanity and gore. (Both of the latter I thought seemed more natural and organic here than in Disco season 1.)

This initially confused me too, but in my mind the implication (particularly once "shift call" happened) is not that they just boned, but that Soji stayed the night with Narek - that they were just waking up and boned the night before. Lots of people don't like sleeping in the buff and put some clothing back on when they go to sleep - even with a new fling.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

She was the C-in-C. It's literally her job to have her own plans.

You should know I'm talking about the typical TNG Admiral with their own agenda. Power hungry types.

 

[Datasbeard]

You should know I'm talking about the typical TNG Admiral with their own agenda. Power hungry types.

I'd be curious, actually, to see a list of those admirals. There were lots of "bad" admirals on TNG and DS9. But not all of them were bad in the same way. Nacheyev, in "Descent" for example, seemed to have very dubious morals, but I don't think she was power hungry or "evil" per se. Similarly with Admiral Ross. With Dougherty it was more blatant, but like Nacheyev, he too seemed motivated by some kind of greater good, at least as he perceived it, which doesn't excuse his actions but it helps explain his motivation.

In short, I think all these admirals seemed fairly believable. They didn't seem like the stereotypical empty villain of modern Trek.

 

[Crewman6]

He was an Admiral in his 80ies. Of course he can retire at any point. Think of Federal Judges.

Wasn't talking about Picard, i was talking about "Federation members" - planets! If entire worlds can leave the UFP over a single disagreement, there's no way they could have survived as an institution. That's why it's a FEDERATION - a strong united, central government. You don't get to pull out over one disagreement.

 

[Crewman6]

The romulan population is not responsible for the actions of the Tal Shiar.

I know that, but from a narrative/thematic point of view, it's confusing. We're not know what to make of all of it.

 

[Crewman6]

I'd be curious, actually, to see a list of those admirals. There were lots of "bad" admirals on TNG and DS9. But not all of them were bad in the same way. Nacheyev, in "Descent" for example, seemed to have very dubious morals, but I don't think she was power hungry or "evil" per se. Similarly with Admiral Ross. With Dougherty it was more blatant, but like Nacheyev, he too seemed motivated by some kind of greater good, at least as he perceived it, which doesn't excuse his actions but it helps explain his motivation.

In short, I think all these admirals seemed fairly believable. They didn't seem like the stereotypical empty villain of modern Trek.

Did Nechayev have "dubious morals?" She was just taking a hardline approach against the Borg, which is somewhat justifiable given history.

 

[Datasbeard]

You don't get to pull out over one disagreement.

It could have been a building disagreement, such as over the allocation of resources, with the Romulan evacuation serving merely as the final straw. For example, Britain's been uneasy about immigration from the EU for decades. The Syrian refugee crisis, and the EU's response to it, helped fuel the racism and xenophobia that had been lurking underneath to push the UK over the edge.

 

[GulBahana]

I'm not a big fan of profanity that's hundreds of years old still being used in the Federation. It didn't ruin it for me though. Rafi seems familiar? Where did Picard know her from?

 

[Datasbeard]

Did Nechayev have "dubious morals?" She was just taking a hardline approach against the Borg, which is somewhat justifiable given history.

I have a feeling Nacheyev would have also been in favor of Japanese internment camps. Lots of people might also have said those were somewhat justifiable, given history. But that's bull. They were immoral, they were wrong, and history correctly does not judge them favorably. Actually, I think Nacheyev would have fit right in with the Trump administration.

 

[Crewman6]

As for the criticism of how the peeps on Mars refer to the androids and how they are being used as 'Slaves'... I thought the scene went to great lengths to show these are not sentient, let alone the dialogue from the previous episode outlining how (at least during the time of the attack on Mars), Data was unique and they hadn't succeeded in recreating his sentience. Still, the whole flashback to Mars was a little jarring and at odds to how we've been led to believe citizens of the Federation 'work' - these didn't look and sound like people who were doing a job to better themselves, they downright sounded like any modern day industrial worker working for the man on a holiday and not wanting to be there at all.

There are still jobs in the 24th Century. Everyone doesn't get to sit at home doing yoga all day long.

 

[Crewman6]

I'm not a big fan of profanity that's hundreds of years old still being used in the Federation. It didn't ruin it for me though. Rafi seems familiar? Where did Picard know her from?

Said profanity is already "hundreds of years old."

 

[DaveyNY]

For a moment when Picard tapped his old TNG Movie Era commbadge I thought he said "Beverly." That Dr. Crusher would be behind trying to get him some help. That would have been a terrific moment even if we never saw Beverly until later in the series.

Yeah, me too.
But on rewatching it he said Raffi.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

I'd be curious, actually, to see a list of those admirals. There were lots of "bad" admirals on TNG and DS9. But not all of them were bad in the same way. Nacheyev, in "Descent" for example, seemed to have very dubious morals, but I don't think she was power hungry or "evil" per se. Similarly with Admiral Ross. With Dougherty it was more blatant, but like Nacheyev, he too seemed motivated by some kind of greater good, at least as he perceived it, which doesn't excuse his actions but it helps explain his motivation.

In short, I think all these admirals seemed fairly believable. They didn't seem like the stereotypical empty villain of modern Trek.

I liked Ross, but he was either "very" aware of, or a part of S31.

 

[Crewman6]

Andor leaving is different since they were a founding member, but the Federation didn’t collapse from them leaving.
They came back a few months later though.

Don't care about books. The process of entering and leaving the Federation shouldn't be as easy and capricious as signing up for Netflix.

 

[Datasbeard]

Don't care about books. The process of entering and leaving the Federation shouldn't be as easy and capricious as signing up for Netflix.

It should be at least as easy as entering and leaving the EU. Except, you know, easier. Since presumably the Federation and the worlds entering and leaving are run by competent people.

 

[Crewman6]

This episode was much more into "meh" area for me. More putting the pieces in place for the season's story, I guess, but things were clunkier here. The overlapping scenes of the Romulan woman talking to Picard intercut with them in the apartment was odd... And as silly as Trek can be she can scan the room and recreate events, even conversations, that happened days earlier?

Huh?!

The look/feel of the opening scene on Mars also just felt out of place for this universe, everyone's behavior was off and the replicator here looked too much like a cross between a 3D-printer and microwave it even had an old microwave "ding" when the meal was finished.

Romulans are anti-android/AI? Er... Okay. They sure tolerated Data for a long time and the Romulan defector in, "The Defector" didn't seem to have a problem with Data.

Oh! An antagonistic Admiral who throws out curse words because it's a streaming TV show and there's no censorship!

I don't, this episode was a lot messier. Still looking forward to more episodes but, this one kind of took my excitement/passion for the series down a notch.

Great points. I hate the idea of the Zhat Vash, what an unbelievably dumb concept. And I could buy a "molecular scanner" or whatever recreating an image of someone, but a recording of the conversation. Ugh. Ridiculous magic right there. That was just a terrible scene all around.

This was basically a stinker of an episode that does nothing except move some pieces a little further into place. But, man, it could have been handled much better.

 

[Crewman6]

It should be at least as easy as entering and leaving the EU. Except, you know, easier. Since presumably the Federation and the worlds entering and leaving are run by competent people.

No, it should be harder. It's a FEDERATION. The EU is not. It has a unified government, the EU does not. The analogy is a state leaving the US.

 

[Mechanoid1]

To the 2 dudes who gave the brilliant first episode a "poor" rating: go ahead and do your "1" rating already, no need to wait. It's not going to get much better.

Dude, shear fu__ing hubris!

 

[Crewman6]

I have a feeling Nacheyev would have also been in favor of Japanese internment camps. Lots of people might also have said those were somewhat justifiable, given history. But that's bull. They were immoral, they were wrong, and history correctly does not judge them favorably. Actually, I think Nacheyev would have fit right in with the Trump administration.

That's hardly fair to Nechayev. Yes, she was a hard-ass, but she had extremely difficult situations to deal with. So what if she wasn't cuddly. There's nothing to suggest a lack of moral fiber on her part.

 

[DaveyNY]

No, it should be harder. It's a FEDERATION. The EU is not. It has a unified government, the EU does not. The analogy is a state leaving the US.

Ummmm...
Several did and look what that led to.
(Civil War)
This may be the beginning of the build up to DISCOVERY Season-3 and the crash of the Federation over a millennia.