STAR TREK: PHASE II Recasts Kirk

[GSchnitzer]

Not that I agree with Jarrod entirely on the particular information he is asking about, but fanfilms are essentially a hobby for most people, so asking for information on budgeting(a key component and the broken link in many a fanfilm's chain) in the context of the hobby is more akin to a model-builder asking another model-builder what kind of tools and paint he uses, or a cosplayer asking for tips on construction of a particularly tricky item. You're free to deny that information of course, but your framing of it as if fanfilms were competing with each other directly seems counter to the spirit of the hobby.

All in all, it's an interesting discussion.

Well, JarodRussell's post said "I see no reason why [compensation information] must be such a secret." So I tried to provide a hypothetical example of a situation where disclosing employee's compensation arrangements actually wouldn't be a good idea. Even if we decide that my scenario doesn't apply to fan films because fan films "aren't in competition," I think that there are probably other scenarios that would demonstrate why it would be disadvantages for us to reveal this information--even if competiton isn't one of the reasons.

But doubling back on my above "competitive outbidding" scenario for a moment, here's a hypothetical example:

We have an actor--let's hypothetically say she's in the role of Lieutenant Uhura--who loves acting and wants to do another Trek episode of some kind. But she only gets one week of vacation time from her "real job" each year to schlep across the country from her home to do a shoot. But she's been willing to do this for four years in a row because, well, she's a doll.

But then she's pursued by some other hypothetical Trek production to play Lieutenant Uhura.

"Come and portray 'Uhura' with us for our one-week shoot.
"No. No. I can't. I'm already Uhura with these other guys."
"Oh, come on! You can do both productions--us and them! It's not a competition!"
"No, you don't understand: I only get one week of vacation time a year. I can't do a week with you and a week with them. I can only do one week."
"Sure you can both; we're not competing. It's just a hobby--do both! You don't understand the spirit of fan films."
"Don't you get it? I don't have two weeks to give! I only have one week of vacation time a year. I can only do one! My availability to provide 'Lieutenant Uhura' services is not unlimited--whatever the true spirit of fan films might be."
"Well, then, pick us! Pick us! We'd love to have you. Is there anything we can do--all other things being equal--to get you to spend your one week with us instead of them?"
"Well, I don't get very much in the way of compensation--it's pretty bare bones. In fact, it might not even really cover my actual costs to attend the shoot. If you could beat their compensation by a bit, I might be persuaded to spend my one week per year with you instead of with them."
"Darn--if only we knew what your compensation was so that we could edge it out a bit and luer you away to join us. But I'm sure that the other guys would never have been so unprofessional and dumb as to reveal what that compensation is so we could beat it. I mean, they know that fans hate it when characters get recast. They'd try to protect that limited 'asset'."

So, if nothing else, we actually do compete with fan films--for scarcity of resources. If we were to reveal, for example, what Mr. Brian Gross' compensation is, I don't see how revealing that information publically would help us to retain him for more episodes. But maybe there's something I'm not understanding about the benefits we would experience from greater disclosure of our business practices.

 

[MikeH92467]

I don't think it's much of a stretch to think that Brian Gross could make more money doing something else. However, I recall something a famous actress said about why anyone might take any particular job: 1) you might find a role that challenges you and expands your range as an actor 2) a script might be so good that being involved with it will advance your career 3) you might do it for the money. If you're lucky you might get two out of three.

All that said, I really don't care what Mr. Gross is being paid and as I said before I see each fan production as being a unique operation, so what good that information might really do is beyond me. I don't need to and don't want to know.

 

[doubleohfive]

More importantly, it's been my experience over the years that even though there is definitely a "system" in place on television shows and on feature films for how things are done, no two shows are run exactly the same way. From seemingly inane things like what color code to use for for script revisions all the way up to budget breakdowns - it's all done according to a number of factors - what studio? what network? Who are the people handling the budget? Just how much is the budget? etc.

So yes, while there might be minor value to the fan film community in revealing the template of the budget at "Phase II" -- its also not all that useful to anyone else either because it's been crafted specifically for "Phase II."

 

[GSchnitzer]

More importantly, it's been my experience over the years that even though there is definitely a "system" in place on television shows and on feature films for how things are done, no two shows are run exactly the same way. From seemingly inane things like what color code to use for for script revisions all the way up to budget breakdowns - it's all done according to a number of factors - what studio? what network? Who are the people handling the budget? Just how much is the budget? etc.

So yes, while there might be minor value to the fan film community in revealing the template of the budget at "Phase II" -- its also not all that useful to anyone else either because it's been crafted specifically for "Phase II."

Or here's another hypothetical example:

Our studio is in the middle of nowhere in Upstate New York in the middle of the Adirondacks and lodging for a week for cast and crew can be scarce (especially if there is some kind of bass fishing contest going on Lake Champlain at the same time). So we try to secure a bunch of cheap cabins nearby at "Family Fun Cabins" for everyone to pack into; we pack them to the rafters.

"It's good to see you again Mr. Schnitzer. Getting ready for another shoot?"
"Yes--next month. If we can reserve ten cabins and have them set aside for us, we'll try to squeeze four to six people into each cabin for the week."
"That's great. We love having you crazy guys here--as always."
"Is $2000 enough for ten cabins for one week?"
"Yes, that sounds fine. Ah! Oh dear! I see this posting you made on some Internet forum where you mentioned that your production had actually budgeted $3000 for lodging for cast and crew. So I think I'd like to charge you $3000 now instead of $2000, --now that I know how high you actually had been willing to go."
"We'll, of course that's fine. I'm so delighted to pay you $3000 instead of $2000."
"By the way, Mr. Schnitzer: why was it that you announced how much you budgeted and how much you were planning on spending for these cabins? I mean, revealing that information doesn't really seem to have worked out to your advantage here. But I'm sure you had some good reason."

 

[controlfreak]

It's not about money. It's about having a simple level of respect for other people and Trek fans frequently display so very little. Want proof? Ask them what they would say to Brannon Braga if they ran into him on a sidewalk.

 

[doubleohfive]

That's also got just as much to do with the fact that most fans have no clue as to how a television show is written. But you're not wrong that most Trekkies also lack that sense of decorum but are overfilled with that sense of entitlement; a sad combination of qualities to be sure.

 

[controlfreak]

It is very sad.

 

[T'Bonz]

Personal, not mod opinion: It's none of anyone's business what anyone else is paid/offered, unless those asking are contributing financially in which case they should ask privately.

 

[DaveGalanter]

Thanks for your kind comments.

Not everyone on our team agrees with my PR style. It's been called "idiotic," "ridiculous," and "PC BS." But your comments mean a lot to me and are a comfort. Thank you.
__________________
Greg Schnitzer
Co-Executive Producer
Star Trek Phase II

From this fan of Phase II (as well as supporter and occasional contributor), I think you are the best person to handle PR. You do it with grace, wit, and gentility.

 

[wtriker1701]

Well, hello @everybody! Hugs to all of you from Germany!
Longtime reader and now ready to write down the first few words here...

As I can see, things are not as light headed at the moment regarding Fan Filming - or to be more specific: regarding Star Trek Fan Productions.

As Phase2 has already entered the stage of semi-professionalism there seem to grow obstacles that weren't anticipated/expected some time ago... how could they? PhaseII is a classy classic product that is higly regarded and has embraced attention, love, and has entered the stage of receiving Prizes for its outings. And that's where things seem to be getting heavier by the minute. Criticism arises as well as competion. Highly unfortunate and sad. Though no one can claim for himself (or his group) that they have made such a progress over the years compared to Jim Cawley and the Phase2 group. Nonetheless, more fish is jumping into the well of being recognized.

For us - the audience - it just means: more Star Trek Fan Films - Hooray!
But it also means: more wanting to know what's going on behind the scenes.

And that's something, that couldn't come at a worse timing. At the moment there's definitely fire behind the sets. So the less blood spilled in front of the audience - the better.

As for JarodRussell - I guess it was just a naive question about the costs of a (or THE) bridge set and the time it took to build it. And I guess there were times, when such questions would have been answered properly... maybe with such an ending sentence like: "You have to tell yourself, how much are you willing to pay to build it as realistic as possible." Those times, sadly, are gone. But I understand, why...

So - regarding Brian Gross - I'm eager to see, how he interprets this role within Phase2 that James Cawley has inhaled over the last decade. Thanks you, James Cawley for enabling us to enjoy more episodes of Star Trek. You are a very profound producer with a Big Heart and you've set an own template of James T. Kirk.

Here's to more Phase2!

And to more Fan Trek for the next decades to come!

Thanks for reading this.

Per
Platjenwerbe

 

[doubleohfive]

A naive question from Jarod? THE HELL YOU SAY.

That said, I'm quite looking forward to these next episodes P2 has in the pipeline.

 

[Maurice]

Back to the REAL subject here, I think if you're trying to make your production more professional, bringing in people who are trained and experienced is rarely a bad thing. A lot of wanna-be fan filmmakers want to play Captain more than make the best movie. Most films really do live and die on the acting—I know lots of people who can't stomach 5 minutes of a fanfilm entirely because of the performances—so if James is willing to step aside and let someone else take the limelight for the goal of making the production better, more power to him.

 

[PattyW]

Jim:

Thanks for your kind comments.

Not everyone on our team agrees with my PR style. It's been called "idiotic," "ridiculous," and "PC BS." But your comments mean a lot to me and are a comfort. Thank you.

Wait... so the man named as "the voice of the production" feels his PR style has been called those negative things? We love you Greg and you shouldn't fret about what anyone but the guy who named you "The voice of the production" says!

 

[PattyW]

I guess a financial breakdown of a production like Phase II would be incredibly helpful for any fan filmmaker. Of course you don't need to list each actors salary, even though I see no reason why that must be such a secret. But it would be very interesting how much money and man hours went into costumes, sets, equipment, special effects, visual effects, editing, etc... heck, even catering.

Seriously, that is an easy question to answer - we don't know! Even when we know "how much money" we probably don't know "how many man hours". No one is punching a time clock to mark "I started working on that set piece in my basement at 4:12pm and worked on it until I took time for a sandwich at..."

 

[Shane Houston]

I guess a financial breakdown of a production like Phase II would be incredibly helpful for any fan filmmaker. Of course you don't need to list each actors salary, even though I see no reason why that must be such a secret. But it would be very interesting how much money and man hours went into costumes, sets, equipment, special effects, visual effects, editing, etc... heck, even catering.

Seriously, that is an easy question to answer - we don't know! Even when we know "how much money" we probably don't know "how many man hours". No one is punching a time clock to mark "I started working on that set piece in my basement at 4:12pm and worked on it until I took time for a sandwich at..."

Okay that being said the bigger question I have now is...what kind of sandwich was it and did it have mayo.

 

[MarsWeeps]

We have an actor--let's hypothetically say she's in the role of Lieutenant Uhura--who loves acting and wants to do another Trek episode of some kind. But she only gets one week of vacation time from her "real job" each year to schlep across the country from her home to do a shoot. But she's been willing to do this for four years in a row because, well, she's a doll.

But then she's pursued by some other hypothetical Trek production to play Lieutenant Uhura.

Oh...so THAT's why Kim Stinger (hypothetically) defected to Star Trek Continues.

By the way, you should try getting Julienne Irons back, I liked her better as Uhura.

 

[PattyW]

Oh...so THAT's why Kim Stinger (hypothetically) defected to Star Trek Continues.

By the way, you should try getting Julienne Irons back, I liked her better as Uhura.

Hypothetically. The "we film in your backyard so you don't have to take any time off" versus "we film in the wildnerness that will take a few days of your vacation time just to get to/from" might hypothetically have had something to do with it too.

As noted in one of James' photos on FaceBook... Jasmine Pierce has joined us as our new Uhura. She is a pro actress, and works at an acting school in the heart of NYC.

 

[PattyW]

Okay that being said the bigger question I have now is...what kind of sandwich was it and did it have mayo.

Another easy one: store brand peanut butter on stale bread, acquired from the local Food Bank.

We spent too much buying the wood/MDF/bondo for the set to afford meat or mayo

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

It's about having a simple level of respect for other people and Trek fans frequently display so very little. Want proof? Ask them what they would say to Brannon Braga if they ran into him on a sidewalk.

That's for damned sure!

Back to the REAL subject here, I think if you're trying to make your production more professional, bringing in people who are trained and experienced is rarely a bad thing. A lot of wanna-be fan filmmakers want to play Captain more than make the best movie. Most films really do live and die on the acting—I know lots of people who can't stomach 5 minutes of a fanfilm entirely because of the performances—so if James is willing to step aside and let someone else take the limelight for the goal of making the production better, more power to him.

This.

 

[USS Intrepid]

It's about having a simple level of respect for other people and Trek fans frequently display so very little. Want proof? Ask them what they would say to Brannon Braga if they ran into him on a sidewalk.

That's for damned sure!

I'd quite like to meet Brannon Braga. I suspect he'd be far more interesting than some people make him out to be. Then again, I'd like to meet Berman too.