STAR TREK: PHASE II Recasts Kirk

[Loken]

Left the set last night after a great day of location shooting. Darren Dochterman had to step in to direct some of this when our Director fell ill, and he was awesome. Got to love this photo!

I am sorry to go and look forward to more Phase 2 goodness. I have to say, the amount of positive vibes on this set is amazing. So many good people.

Alec

 

[JarodRussell]

I guess a financial breakdown of a production like Phase II would be incredibly helpful for any fan filmmaker. Of course you don't need to list each actors salary, even though I see no reason why that must be such a secret. But it would be very interesting how much money and man hours went into costumes, sets, equipment, special effects, visual effects, editing, etc... heck, even catering.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Does this mean we're finally going to get to see the episode in which they experiment with LDS?

 

[GSchnitzer]

I guess a financial breakdown of a production like Phase II would be incredibly helpful for any fan filmmaker. Of course you don't need to list each actors salary, even though I see no reason why that must be such a secret. But it would be very interesting how much money and man hours went into costumes, sets, equipment, special effects, visual effects, editing, etc...

It's not that the cast and crew reimbrusements are a secret; it's just that it's not the producers' place to reveal that non-secret information. Cast and crew members might be perfectly willing to reveal to you their compensations, if any, if you ask them.

But if, for a hypothetical example, we were to reveal how low an actor is willing to go on thir reimbursement, when that actor goes to look for another job, the producers of that production will know how low the actor has been willing to go during salary negotiations--which isn't really fair to the actor. If cast and crew can't trust us not to divulge the specifics of their compensation, we might find it hard to secure talent who would be willing to work for us in the future.

It would be sort of like me going to your employer and asking how much you make. I presume you wouldn't want your employer to reveal that information to any Tom, Dick, or Harry without your permission.

Although fans might be interested, we are disinclined to provide the departmental specifics of our production budget--but there are lots of books on how to budget for small independent productions.

 

[Tom]

...And I thought I asked the tough questions! LOL

 

[doubleohfive]

Greg, thank you once again for your thoughtful insight, polite demeanor, and endless patience. You are an example for us all, and I for one greatly appreciate the time and effort you put in to acknowledging each question put to you - even the silly ones.

 

[JarodRussell]

It would be sort of like me going to your employer and asking how much you make. I presume you wouldn't want your employer to reveal that information to any Tom, Dick, or Harry without your permission.

I never cared about that, it's business. We also know in detail what politicians and company execs get. When you negotiate for salaries, your employer will either be willing to pay you the amount you ask for or not. More insight in what you got in the last job doesn't change anything about that. You want something, they want something, and either you both come to terms or not.

But if, for a hypothetical example, we were to reveal how low an actor is willing to go on thir reimbursement, when that actor goes to look for another job, the producers of that production will know how low the actor has been willing to go during salary negotiations--which isn't really fair to the actor.

See above. Doesn't matter how high or low he went for the last gig. If you pay him 10 bucks for a fan film, why should that have any negative effect on the next professional Warner Bros. picture he's involved?

I know Hollywood is self indulging in secrecy, so that they have many opportunities to rip people off. But that behavior shouldn't be imitated. Transparency and honesty are good things.

Although fans might be interested, we are disinclined to provide the departmental specifics of our production budget--but there are lots of books on how to budget for small independent productions.

That's the difference between theory and practice. What's so secret about how much your bridge set cost and how long it took you to build it, for example?

 

[GSchnitzer]

Greg, thank you once again for your thoughtful insight, polite demeanor, and endless patience. You are an example for us all, and I for one greatly appreciate the time and effort you put in to acknowledging each question put to you - even the silly ones.

The trick I use to keep a proper perspective, as I've said before, is to take each question and read it outloud to myself--execpt that I always use the voice of Hank Azaria's "Comic Book Guy" from The Simpsons.

But thanks again for your nice comments. Mostly, the challenge of crafting a nice, polite response that is (i hope) helpful, informative, entertaining, polite, and professional is simply a puzzle to try and figure out--Greg Schnitzer's form of a Sudoku puzzle.

 

[doubleohfive]

It would be sort of like me going to your employer and asking how much you make. I presume you wouldn't want your employer to reveal that information to any Tom, Dick, or Harry without your permission.

I never cared about that, it's business.

Whether you care about your salary being public knowledge is pretty much confined to yourself. As Greg has pointed out, there are very affecting reasons why actors may not want theirs to be revealed publicly. Which is also besides the point that should have ended this discussion -- Greg plainly said that the P2 company does not believe it is their place to reveal such information. That should be good enough for you; it certainly is for the rest of us.

We also know in detail what politicians and company execs get.

Politicians are public figures working in government, ostensibly, for the people. Actors are not.

When you negotiate for salaries, your employer will either be willing to pay you the amount you ask for or not. More insight in what you got in the last job doesn't change anything about that. You want something, they want something, and either you both come to terms or not.

It isn't as simple as that. Do you view the rest of the world with such a two-valued system?

But if, for a hypothetical example, we were to reveal how low an actor is willing to go on thir reimbursement, when that actor goes to look for another job, the producers of that production will know how low the actor has been willing to go during salary negotiations--which isn't really fair to the actor.

See above. Doesn't matter how high or low he went for the last gig. If you pay him 10 bucks for a fan film, why should that have any negative effect on the next Warner Bros. picture he's involved?

Because if the producer on the next film knows that, he's more likely to to only want to pay that same amount, or marginally more rather than whatever the actor could conceivably negotiate.

I know Hollywood is self indulging in secrecy, so that they have many opportunities to rip people off. But that behavior shouldn't be imitated. Transparency and honesty are good things.

Although fans might be interested, we are disinclined to provide the departmental specifics of our production budget--but there are lots of books on how to budget for small independent productions.

That's the difference between theory and practice.

Dude, he's given you more answers (and legit ones) than your inane query deserves. Let it go.

 

[doubleohfive]

Greg, thank you once again for your thoughtful insight, polite demeanor, and endless patience. You are an example for us all, and I for one greatly appreciate the time and effort you put in to acknowledging each question put to you - even the silly ones.

The trick I use to keep a proper perspective, as I've said before, is to take each question and read it outloud to myself--execpt that I always use the voice of Hank Azaria's "Comic Book Guy" from The Simpsons.

But thanks again for your nice comments. Mostly, the challenge of crafting a nice, polite response that is (i hope) helpful, informative, entertaining, polite, and professional is simply a puzzle to try and figure out--Greg Schnitzer's form of a Sudoku puzzle.

Oh, Comic Book Guy.

I for one appreciate it.

 

[GSchnitzer]

It would be sort of like me going to your employer and asking how much you make. I presume you wouldn't want your employer to reveal that information to any Tom, Dick, or Harry without your permission.

I never cared about that, it's business. We also know in detail what politicians and company execs get. When you negotiate for salaries, your employer will either be willing to pay you the amount you ask for or not. More insight in what you got in the last job doesn't change anything about that. You want something, they want something, and either you both come to terms or not.

But if, for a hypothetical example, we were to reveal how low an actor is willing to go on thir reimbursement, when that actor goes to look for another job, the producers of that production will know how low the actor has been willing to go during salary negotiations--which isn't really fair to the actor.

See above. Doesn't matter how high or low he went for the last gig. If you pay him 10 bucks for a fan film, why should that have any negative effect on the next professional Warner Bros. picture he's involved?

I know Hollywood is self indulging in secrecy, so that they have many opportunities to rip people off. But that behavior shouldn't be imitated. Transparency and honesty are good things.

Although fans might be interested, we are disinclined to provide the departmental specifics of our production budget--but there are lots of books on how to budget for small independent productions.

That's the difference between theory and practice. What's so secret about how much your bridge set cost and how long it took you to build it?

And what is so secret about Kentucky Fried Chicken's eleven herbs and spices? Why isn't KFC more forthcoming about the ingredients? "Knowledge, sir, should be free to all!"

 

[MikeH92467]

As I see it, the breakout of a fan film budget is going to be quite a bit different than a fully funded professional project. So much of any fan project is going to be from "in kind" contributions of one kind or another that it's really going to be tough to generate an accurate line item budget.
On the other hand, a "Hollywood" type production is going to need an extremely detailed budget for any number of reasons. I would think a studio's auditors and accountants would demand that and so would the auditors and accountants for any investors and I would think that would be absolutely a requirement for dealing with unions and actor's agents.
I'm not saying Greg and company couldn't show you a budget, it's just that I really don't think it would be that much help to another project.
What is enormously helpful (IMHO) is the breakout of a daily call sheet and detailed shooting schedule for a production that was posted elsewhere. That was some seriously informative material. Every item that is anticipated and goes on paper is a time saver, and whether your production is professional or fan=produced time absolutely is money!

 

[JarodRussell]

What's so secret about how much your bridge set cost and how long it took you to build it?

And what is so secret about Kentucky Fried Chicken's eleven herbs and spices? Why isn't KFC more forthcoming about the ingredients? "Knowledge, sir, should be free to all!"

LOL, I didn't ask what kind of wood and nails you used. Ingredients vs. costs, a difference.

 

[doubleohfive]

As per usual though, you've completely missed the point.

 

[Maurice]

It's basically unprofessional to discuss salary, especially if you're the employer. It exposes people's private arrangements, and can lead to all kinds of budget negotiation hassles, not to mention hurt feelings.

I have the complete budget for Star Trek VI, and it's not very useful except to know how much each department spent, and those are all union rates, mostly in L.A.

I live and work in the San Francisco area, and it's one of the most expensive areas in the country, so I might have to spend $1,200 to rent a fully equipped insert stage for a day, whereas someone in another part of the country might get it for a third of that.

My experience is that is you are doing craft services for a full shoot day it's going to cost you something like $20 per person (meals, snacks, water, drinks, etc.). If someone on your crew is willing to cook meals to bring in, that can lower the cost, obviously. If you're paying for catering, the costs go up.

When I did Stagecoach in the Sky for the 48 Hour Film Project I was not allowed (by contest rules) to pay anyone, so basically the budget was all for rentals, equipment, props, expendables (gaffer tape, etc.), craft services and meals. I don't have the receipts in front of me, but I remember we spent ballpark about $300 to use the plane as the set, about $400 in grip rentals and purchases, $200 for food, maybe $100 for costuming, another $100 in hair and makeup supplies, etc. The day easily cost over $1K, and even then a lot of stuff (audio gear, camera, etc.) was provided for free by some of the crew who had the gear. This was for a one day shoot.

 

[GSchnitzer]

What's so secret about how much your bridge set cost and how long it took you to build it?

And what is so secret about Kentucky Fried Chicken's eleven herbs and spices? Why isn't KFC more forthcoming about the ingredients? "Knowledge, sir, should be free to all!"

LOL, I didn't ask what kind of wood and nails you used. Ingredients vs. costs, a difference.

"Hi, maybe you can help me. I understand that you and I are both general contractors and that we are both hoping to land this gig of building a new larger addition onto this older home. But can you answer something for me, please?

"Can you tell me what your costs would be, in labor and materials, to build the addition? You see, I want to put in a bid on this same project and I'd really like to underbid you. So can you please tell me your costs? I mean, it's not like your costs are a secret or something, right? And there's no reason why you shouldn't tell me because, in the end, the person who is contracting for this project is going to pay exactly what it is worth to him to get the job done--regardless of the different prices offered to him.

"So if you tell me how low you are willing to go but still cover your costs, you shouldn't worry: it should have absolutely no effect on whether the lower bid I then submit in an effort to undercut your bid ends up being more desirable to the person doing the contracting. I mean, they have a set price in mind that they are willing to pay and just because I submit a lower bid than you, it's not like they would want to take advantage of that lower price, right?"

 

[Loken]

Now this topic is thoroughly off topic. Lets get back to something on-topic. We had a new make-up assistant named Faith come up. This is what she posted on her Facebook:

"Just drive 9 hours away from the most amazing,coolest nicest people I've had the pleasure to work with! Can't wait to do it again!!"

So nice to hear stuff like this. Truly a great team of great people. I know I miss it already.

Alec

 

[Venardhi]

And what is so secret about Kentucky Fried Chicken's eleven herbs and spices? Why isn't KFC more forthcoming about the ingredients? "Knowledge, sir, should be free to all!"

LOL, I didn't ask what kind of wood and nails you used. Ingredients vs. costs, a difference.

"Hi, maybe you can help me. I understand that you and I are both general contractors and that we are both hoping to land this gig of building a new larger addition onto this older home. But can you answer something for me, please?

"Can you tell me what your costs would be, in labor and materials, to build the addition? You see, I want to put in a bid on this same project and I'd really like to underbid you. So can you please tell me your costs? I mean, it's not like your costs are a secret or something, right? And there's no reason why you shouldn't tell me because, in the end, the person who is contracting for this project is going to pay exactly what it is worth to him to get the job done--regardless of the different prices offered to him.

"So if you tell me how low you are willing to go but still cover your costs, you shouldn't worry: it should have absolutely no effect on whether the lower bid I then submit in an effort to undercut your bid ends up being more desirable to the person doing the contracting. I mean, they have a set price in mind that they are willing to pay and just because I submit a lower bid than you, it's not like they would want to take advantage of that lower price, right?"

Not that I agree with Jarrod entirely on the particular information he is asking about, but fanfilms are essentially a hobby for most people, so asking for information on budgeting(a key component and the broken link in many a fanfilm's chain) in the context of the hobby is more akin to a model-builder asking another model-builder what kind of tools and paint he uses, or a cosplayer asking for tips on construction of a particularly tricky item. You're free to deny that information of course, but your framing of it as if fanfilms were competing with each other directly seems counter to the spirit of the hobby.

 

[Loken]

Can we just move on people? Geez.

 

[JarodRussell]

Not that I agree with Jarrod entirely on the particular information he is asking about, but fanfilms are essentially a hobby for most people, so asking for information on budgeting(a key component and the broken link in many a fanfilm's chain) in the context of the hobby is more akin to a model-builder asking another model-builder what kind of tools and paint he uses, or a cosplayer asking for tips on construction of a particularly tricky item. You're free to deny that information of course, but your framing of it as if fanfilms were competing with each other directly seems counter to the spirit of the hobby.

You might not fully agree with me, but I fully agree with you.