Spoilers Star Trek: Lower Decks 4x10 - "Old Friends, New Planets"

[Deks]

Ah, so hope you're in a part of space with relevant in-zone coverage, otherwise you're shit out of luck.

That's pretty much how things work in a monetary system (which the Ferengi use and its rather consistent with their behaviour)... so, no surprise there.
A lot of people in real life end up out of luck when a paywall comes up and they are in the wrong region.
For example, Netflix doesn't show certain content in UK, but it does in USA... and vice verse, but everyone has to pay the local rate (which can be cheaper or more expensive depending on the region)... the situation is similar for other countries.
In some countries, you cannot access various web sites without a VPN (a piece of software that can similarly be inaccessible).

And of course, there's lack of internet coverage, or even if there is coverage, you're not guaranteed its going to work, etc.

Protostar cores just run, as does anything that draws energy from subspace.

Actually, the protostar core did not draw energy from subspace. Its been inferred that the protocore is an actual protostar.
Protostar Gravimetric containment... meaning the thing probably DOES emanate massive amounts of gravimetric energy, but SF hadn't figured out how to use the protocore to power its own containment or other systems (most likely because their power transfer conduits don't come close to being able to handle that much energy constantly (because they would be rated to handle something like two warp cores, or about 25.4 exawatts - but not anywhere close to say 1000 or 2000 exawatts which could be consistent with a 'baby star' power output) - hence the third nacelle - they can handle transmitting just enough energy for generating TW speeds in a relatively short burst, but not much else - hence why they still use Dilithium and M/AM to power the containment of the protocore itself and most other things onboard seeing how its a power mechanism SF is most accustomed to.

I suspect that there might be tremendeous power loss/inefficiency associated with the proto core because SF's power transfer conduits just can't handle a baby star level of energy.
SF needs to up its game in power transfew technology and/or control the proto core so it generates much less energy during 'normal' operations and more for proto Warp - but I suspect they would have needed more R&D for that - which would make sense in this context, but as a highly advanced alliance of numeros civilisations, it shouldn't be impossible to overcome in a few decades to half a century at most - but I guess the writers don't want that).

 

[Photoman15]

Hey! We Zoom Meet on Saturdays to discuss the current episode (and more).
It's schedule for 9PM London Time (5PM Eastern)
Around the set time (give or take a few minutes) the link is posted here:
https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/zoom-session-to-talk-about-star-trek.306852/page-35
Just wait for the link at around the starting time.
Hope to see new faces.

 

[Charles Phipps]

I like the idea that Tom Paris and Lorcano are identical thematically versus just the same actor. It's just that Tom Paris got mentored by Janeway and the Voyager crew as well as accepted the chance at redemption. Lorcano, instead, stewed for a decade or more in his own bitterness and when offered a chance of redemption by Mariner, refused it.

That's not bad writing.

 

[Greg Cox]

Regarding casting McNeill in both parts, I imagine the reasoning is not unlike TOS recycling Mark Lenard as Sarek after he previously played the unnamed Romulan Commander in "Balance of Terror.

You need somebody who looks good with pointed ears and who can convey a certain austere dignity and gravitas, why not cast an actor who you know can pull that off with aplomb?

And if you need somebody to play a cocky flyboy with a checkered past . . . .

 

[Oddish]

The kick was that the casting call said they were looking for "a Robert Duncan Macneil type". And Macneil figured, who's more Robert Duncan Macneil than I am. So, he auditioned, of course knocked out out of the park, and got the part.

 

[ToddCam]

Both explanations can be true. There's seldom just one reason for any creative decision. There can be legal issues, of rights and royalties, AND good creative reasons to rework the character to benefit VOYAGER.

Again, designing a one-shot character to serve a specific purpose in one specific story is very different from designing a character you intend to keep around every week for seven seasons. It's perfectly valid to think, "hey, about a Nick Locarno type character, but tweaked to fit the new show?"

And, honestly, if Robert Duncan McNeill hadn't played both roles (as so many other Trek actors have played multiple roles in the franchise), we wouldn't even be talking about this.

These all feel like post hoc rationalizations for a financial decision that specifically avoided paying creators for their creation. Paris became a different character over time of course. But nothing that character had at the beginning was substantially different. At least for me, the irredeemable line is just an excuse, and 30 years later they made it more "true" and after the fact reinforced a justification for a morally dubious action.

All that said, I have no objections to his depiction otherwise. It's a kind of what if for Tom Paris. What would have happened if he didn't have a Janeway and a Torres and a Kim to make him a better person? I totally buy Locarno's fate.

 

[Charles Phipps]

These all feel like post hoc rationalizations for a financial decision that specifically avoided paying creators for their creation. Paris became a different character over time of course. But nothing that character had at the beginning was substantially different. At least for me, the irredeemable line is just an excuse, and 30 years later they made it more "true" and after the fact reinforced a justification for a morally dubious action.

All that said, I have no objections to his depiction otherwise. It's a kind of what if for Tom Paris. What would have happened if he didn't have a Janeway and a Torres and a Kim to make him a better person? I totally buy Locarno's fate.

It is but LD is the first people to have done anything with their difference and made it an interesting part of storytelling lore.

 

[Greg Cox]

The kick was that the casting call said they were looking for "a Robert Duncan Macneil type". And Macneil figured, who's more Robert Duncan Macneil than I am. So, he auditioned, of course knocked out out of the park, and got the part.

As I recall, something similar happened on THE MARY TYLER MOORE show when they were casting Sue Anne Nivens. The character was conceived as of being a satirical take on "a Betty White type."

"Hey, crazy idea: why don't we just get Betty White?"

 

[dswynne1]

If there is ONE flaw, it's that we truly don't know the series events that propelled Nick into wanting to create his "NOVA FLEET". Yes, bitterness can be a factor, but the fact that many ex-Maquis were giving second chances, especially in light of the Dominion War, you would think that Starfleet would have given Nick amnesty. Clearly, that wasn't the case, and if Starfleet refused to give Nick amnesty, when others were allowed back into Starfleet, there should have been a reason. Simply being an egotist with delusions of grandeur isn't enough of a reason for his subsequent actions, in my opinion.

 

[Tuskin38]

is because Berman, Piller, and Taylor wanted to make sure Ron Moore and Naren Shankar couldn't get any credit for reusing a character they created.

I just don't believe that's the case. Not even the writers of the episode have said that.

 

[Photoman15]

Would you want one of your leads on a Trek show being known as the one who got a friend killed for his arrogance? And then trying to force others to cover it up?

 

[Commander Troi]

I loved this! It tied up the season beautifully!

I just feel like they did Nick dirty. Could he have become this person? I suppose so. But this just took too many leaps forward. I can see that he never got his life together after the Academy (the Academy...) but becoming a criminal mastermind and shipbuilder?

I disagree. He was always shown as egotistic and entitled and, well, an asshole. I can totally buy him stewing in his own juices for years about the life he was "supposed" to have and then deciding to build his own little kingdom.

I loved seeing bouncing, super excited, un-jaded Mariner.

OMG! That cracked me up! She was so adorkable.

Loved:
T'Lyn having the Twaining idea and her saying "Cerritos Strong!"
The entire crew agreeing to go get Mariner.
Migleemo causing an allergic reaction!
The jokes about Paris and Locarno looking alike.
The Ferengi "paywall" was brilliant.
Mariner subtly sowing dissension in the Nova Fleet ranks.
Mariner treating the Genesis Device as her First Officer.
Mariner trying to get Locarno to come to his senses. She is truly Starfleet to the core.
Getting Wil and Shannon to do voices.
Tendi and her sister - I love their dynamic. I can't wait to see D'Vana, Mistress of the Winter Constellations, in all her glory next year.
Oh! They used the Captain's Yacht!

 

[Bad Thoughts]

I just don't believe that's the case. Not even the writers of the episode have said that.

Why do you think there are so many credits for the two Maquis episodes in DS9? So Croker and Behr couldn't make any claims.

Face it, they were being jerks.

 

[fireproof78]

Would you want one of your leads on a Trek show being known as the one who got a friend killed for his arrogance? And then trying to force others to cover it up?

Yes.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Why do you think there are so many credits for the two Maquis episodes in DS9? So Croker and Behr couldn't make any claims.

Face it, they were being jerks.

The writing credits? Aren't there unions involved in that sort of thing?

 

[Tuskin38]

Face it, they were being jerks.

No one from production has ever com forward to say it had to do with rights, it's all speculation.
They also weren't created for creating the character in this episode or the last.

Several people have backed up the irredeemable part.

 

[ToddCam]

As I recall, something similar happened on THE MARY TYLER MOORE show when they were casting Sue Anne Nivens. The character was conceived as of being a satirical take on "a Betty White type."

"Hey, crazy idea: why don't we just get Betty White?"

That's awesome. A couple of years ago I watched that show when it was on Hulu (it went off the air before I was born) and I thought Betty White was hilarious. Such a gift to our world.

No one from production has ever com forward to say it had to do with rights, it's all speculation.
They also weren't created for creating the character in this episode or the last.

And the two of them being staff writers at the time, I don't think there are any rights issues.

There's nothing in the WGA site (that I found) that says a created by credit is necessary.

 

[Charles Phipps]

If there is ONE flaw, it's that we truly don't know the series events that propelled Nick into wanting to create his "NOVA FLEET". Yes, bitterness can be a factor, but the fact that many ex-Maquis were giving second chances, especially in light of the Dominion War, you would think that Starfleet would have given Nick amnesty. Clearly, that wasn't the case, and if Starfleet refused to give Nick amnesty, when others were allowed back into Starfleet, there should have been a reason. Simply being an egotist with delusions of grandeur isn't enough of a reason for his subsequent actions, in my opinion.

I mean, the Maquis WEREN'T given second chances. The crew of the Voyager were the only Maquis not slaughtered aside from Ensign Ro as far as we know.

Also, Nick wasn't a Maquis. That was Tom Paris.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

I

No one from production has ever com forward to say it had to do with rights, it's all speculation.
They also weren't created for creating the character in this episode or the last.

Several people have backed up the irredeemable part.

Ira Steven Behr makes this claim about The Maquis in Fifty Year Mission.

 

[Birb-of-Prey]

Okay, now I really, REALLY want a Migleemo plush