Spoilers Star Trek: Lower Decks 4x01 - "Twovix"

[Charles Phipps]

Thinking about the original "Tuvix" moral dilemma.

I dunno, if we get the technology to eventually resurrect someone and it required someone else to die, then it gets thornier with the idea Neelix and Tuvok aren't there anymore. The ethical dilemma is not that they're not there anymore but they CAN be saved in the same way someone trapped in a pattern buffer or something would be.

I'm inclined to view this episode very differently from other show watchers, though, as I think the ethical dilemma here isn't nearly as unprecedented or weird as people make it out to be. I think that TOS and DS9 (more than TNG) made it clear that it is BASIC expectation of a Starfleet officer that you have to make questionably ethical life and death choices all the time.

Kobatashi Maru, anyone?

One of the earliest tests to see if Wesley Crusher had the stones (or whatever the nongendered version of it is in the 24th century) was whether or not he could leave a man to die to save someone else. VOY and ENT tried to softpedal this sort of thing (at least until ENT Season 3) but part of the reason Redshirts exist is because sometimes you have to send someone to die. Deana Troi did it to get her promotion.

To save two of her crew, Janeway had to let a random alien die. It's terrible but it's something I expect every Starfleet officer to do in this situation unless there's a greater good involved like the Prime Directive.

So I'm of the mind Captain Freeman would have straight up murdered him if she had to but sought a better option. I doubt she'd have found one, though.

 

[Captain Jollydark]

I loved T'Lyn's overweening Vulcan smugness about fixing everything with transporter adjustment override whatever and then, in classic Lower Decker way, makes the problem so much worse. It was delightful.

 

[Charles Phipps]

I loved T'Lyn's overweening Vulcan smugness about fixing everything with transporter adjustment override whatever and then, in classic Lower Decker way, makes the problem so much worse. It was delightful.

I also love how T'Lynn's concerns are this is going to make her look bad.

 

[Starkers]

Glad they made an oblique reference to Those Old Scientists

 

[Warp 10 (Pepperoni)]

"Oh I miss my wife..."

 

[jackoverfull]

“Starfleet systems are easily circumvented”…so true!

 

[Macintosh]

I was expecting Tendi and T'Lyn to get Tuvixed. Nice subversion.

 

[Paul Weaver]

So with the salamanders I guess that throws the "Threshold was a fevered dream" theory out of the window!

I love that they chose an episode set on Voyager to have Ensigns being promoted as you can't remain Ensign for years, especially when you are doing such great work.

sometimes you have to send someone to die. Deana Troi did it to get her promotion.

Troi sent a holodeck character to its "death", a character she knew was a holodeck character

Wesley's test was far better -- he didn't know it was the test, it was just a real person in real need.

 

[Charles Phipps]

Troi sent a holodeck character to its "death", a character she knew was a holodeck character

I'd argue her test is better because it lets her know what might be expected of her without horrifyingly traumatizing her.

"Oh I miss my wife..."

Humorously, making Michael alive means Janeway murdered her.

 

[Farscape One]

I'd argue her test is better because it lets her know what might be expected of her without horrifyingly traumatizing her.

I disagree. Wesley's test was a better one because of two things.

First, the goal was different. The 'psych test' was tailored to fit each candidates specific fears... in Wesley's case, his fear of not being able to make a choice when faced with a dangerous situation. Troi's was specifically aimed at the ability to be able to send someone to their death for a greater good, like saving a ship full of people. Put simply, Wesley's was a test to see if he can overcome his own general fears to get a job done, while Troi's was seeing if she had the specific ability to give a suicide order.

Second, as "NOR THE BATTLE TO THE STRONG" showed us with the soldier who shot himself in the foot just to get off the front lines, scoring well in simulations doesn't compare to the real thing. At least with a more realistic one like Wesley's, you have a better chance of seeing if someone actually can live up to the test's goal. Knowing everything is a holodeck simulation is sort of a mental cheat code, because it's less likely to stay with you vs. a more realistic test like the 'psych test'.

 

[Deks]

“Starfleet systems are easily circumvented”…so true!

Inded... though they really shouldn't be.

 

[Sakonna]

Bit of an aside, but I feel like we saw the curator's species before. Anyone have an idea where that might have been?

Unless I’m mistaken, he was Rigellian. One appeared in the season one episode with Mariner’s captain friend from the academy

At first I thought it might be the Prime Universe's version of Jaylah's species from BEY but I think the idea that he's Rigellian is correct.

The Rigellian's are a "turtle-like" race seen in a single blurry shot in TMP.

You are all thinking of the Rigelian's. With one L.

Every time LD brings them back, I think of Jaylah too. But we don't know her species, I think she's now a Rigelian in my headcannon.

I am such a nerd for all the aliens. Every LD I need to make sure I can ID every BG alien.

Hello TrekBBS friends, I am back once again with my annual question about every episode of Lower Decks:

My daughter, who is now ten, really loves LD and loves to watch it with us on Friday nights. The only episode she has missed is "Where Pleasant Fountains Lie" due to the high level of sexual content, and I like to check in with the BBS before each episode to make sure there's nothing too bad for a 10YO in each week's ep.

Can anyone tell me if there is anything too objectionable (meaning too violent or sexual) in this week's ep? No need to spoil, just let me know if it would make me a bad parent to watch this ep with her!

Thanks so much.

I can't find a way to answer this without something at least somewhat spoiler-y, but here's the vaguest answer I can come up with while still communicating the information:

There is a moment of violent mass death in space, but it's the equivalent of the deaths we saw happening on the starbase in "The Stars At Night." Or perhaps more reminiscent of the destruction of the Solvang in the opening of "No Small Parts." If she could handle those, this one should also be fine.

 

[1001001]

Voyager Rules!

9

 

[Charles Phipps]

Inded... though they really shouldn't be.

My headcanon is Starfleet has long since passed the Singularity where they don't actually understand most of their technology.

Data is literally the only guy who knows how the computer's work beyond touch screens. Everyone else is using programs built on programs.

 

[StarMan]

Strange this isn't showing up on Prime (New Zealand).

 

[Starkers]

I had top dig around to find it on Prime UK, it didn't come up on my 'continue watching tab'

 

[Paul Weaver]

Is it on Prime? I watched it on my paramount plus (uk) subscription which I get through Amazon

 

[Nerys Myk]

Inded... though they really shouldn't be.

Plot gonna plot.

 

[F. King Daniel]

I do love the idea of Voyager becoming a trashy museum exhibit with all the current day cheese plus killer holos.

 

[Vger23]

I like how not only was this a celebration of VOY, but it was a celebration of the most ridiculous and outlandish elements of that show. It’s like they found a way to get it all in during one awesome concentrated burst. Really well done.

And I agree wholeheartedly with @eschaton that this is the best opener yet amongst what has been some pretty week pickings in the other 3 seasons.

8/10