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Spoilers Star Trek: Lower Decks 1x01 - "Second Contact"

Rate the episode...

  • 10 - Excellent!

    Votes: 34 13.9%
  • 9

    Votes: 38 15.6%
  • 8

    Votes: 75 30.7%
  • 7

    Votes: 38 15.6%
  • 6

    Votes: 20 8.2%
  • 5

    Votes: 11 4.5%
  • 4

    Votes: 10 4.1%
  • 3

    Votes: 4 1.6%
  • 2

    Votes: 3 1.2%
  • 1 - The lowliest lowest grade possible.

    Votes: 11 4.5%

  • Total voters
    244
I enjoyed that a lot more than I thought I would. There were actually a few laugh out loud moments, some great comedic timing and on the whole the series' heart is definitely in the right place.

Liked Boimler a lot, not a fan of him being the source of ridicule but as long as he has similar hero moments to Mariner then it's fine.

Speaking of, Mariner wasn't quite as annoying as I thought she would be, but not far off. I did like the reveal about her, that was pretty intriguing.

The design of the ship has definitely grown on me. This show has better space shots than Discovery or Picard :lol:
 
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I don't think the nudity in the episode was being played as comedy.

There are two explicit scenes of nudity: Mariner's holograms and Boimler exiting the spider cow. There are also the scene with the guy in the bath towel and Mariner and Boimler stripping to their underwear. Not quite nudity, but approaching that realm.

Of the four scenes, only Boimler's spitting out wasn't a joke (but it led to the joke of him running around in borrowed alien overalls). Presumably, his underwear was lost in the spider cow's mouth or dissolved.

The Olympic team was a joke, but an understandable confirmation of what we all know people (sometimes) use holodecks for. The guy in the bath towel was a setup for the "why is a sonic shower musty?" line and also to show how awkward and cramped it must be living down there.

Boimler and Mariner being in their underwear was a plot element, but used for a couple of jokes. On a live-action show (like, say, Enterprise), that scene would be called out for unnecessary titillation. Historically, Starfleet uniforms have a plethora of more modest under uniforms than just a bra and briefs (or just briefs), but Mariner may have removed those to hide their smell.

They should've covered themselves in mud, if that was the idea.
 
It's funny to say this about a show that's so over the top and deliberately ridiculous, but I think it respects the legacy of Star Trek far, far more than DIS or PIC.
 
Guys, stop derailing the thread with your bickering. Positive and negative opinions are allowed and welcome as long as they are stated with respect for your fellow posters. Also, expect your opinions to be challenged by others, that's just the nature of a discussion. So again, stop this part of the discussion now.
 
...but I think it respects the legacy of Star Trek far, far more than DIS or PIC.

Always tough to tell by one episode. I was convinced Picard was a winner after the first episode, by the seventh episode I had fallen away.
 
I have already told I would not be engaging you again yet you chosen to ignore it, and have continued to quote my posts that were not even to you, as you are looking to continue something., obviously trying to create a situation because you had your feelings hurt., when I was quite willing to move on.

Best thing is for me to put you on ignore seeing as you crave my attention.
Sigh. It honestly doesn't seem like you are able to contribute to this thread without resorting to insults, provoking others or just plain ignoring mod instructions, which is the reason I removed you from the thread for now. I'm also issuing a warning. Comments to PM.

As for the rest of you, please return to your regularly scheduled discussion about Lower Decks.
 
I'm happy to report that the first episode of Lower Decks was good. It was fun, it had interesting characters, it had some depth beneath the silliness, it was funny, and it had heart. And in spite of being an adult animated sitcom, it still had that Star Trek spirit.

In the late 90s and early 00s, I was endlessly frustrated by the way VOY and ENT seemed like they were trapped in the 80s, unable to escape the TNG formula. LDS reinforces my new optimism that Star Trek can and will continue to evolve with the times instead of being trapped in the past.

* * *

Random thoughts:
  • D'Vana Tendi is the first main character in all of Star Trek to be an Orion. In fact, there's never even been an Orion recurring character before. I think it'll be very interesting and fun to have her aboard and maybe get to (humorously) explore Orion culture through her. Amongst other things, I'd love it if Tendi was the key to ending Star Trek's practice of fetishizing sexual violence against women in the form of the "Orion slave girl" trope -- and tossing out ENT "Bound"'s equally misogynistic "women as dangerous sirens" version of Orion women. (Boimler looked like he might have been trying to impress her, but no one appeared to be compromised by any pheromones.)
  • I like the crew of the Cerritos, but I still think the California class is an ugly ship design. Which is fine, since the Cerritos is supposed to be a second-class ship in an animated sitcom. My headcanon is that the California class are among those ugly-ass "Frankenstein" ship classes that were quickly bolted together and commissioned in the rush to get ships ready for the Dominion War, like the Yeager-class.
  • I like the fact that every plot in this episode thematically echoed the title "Second Contact." A second contact mission, after all, is about getting to know the subjects as they really are after first impressions. That's exactly what happens in every plot in this episode: Boimler starts to realize that there's more to Mariner than he had previously assumed when he learns she was smuggling supplies to those Galadorian civilians so that they would survive -- and when he realizes how much more experienced Mariner is than he'd assumed. Mariner, at the same time, starts to realize that Boimler isn't quite the sycophant she had imagined when he doesn't snitch on her to Captain Freeman. Rutherford and Barnes are initially quite smitten with each other based upon superficial impressions, but when they realize that they have conflicting reactions to crises -- Rutherford becomes fixated on making sure he can control his environment (as manifested by his fixation on the door), whereas Barnes is clearly more willing to throw caution to the wind and embrace the passion of the moment -- they realize they're incompatible. We the audience are also treated to the juxtaposition of who someone seems to be versus who they really are: D'Vana at first appears to be a naive waif, but she proves to be a bit tougher and, well, grosser than we'd imagined when see her handle a partially surgically-removed heart and get excited over that experience; Ransom appears to be a Riker-type archetype of Starfleet competence and heroism before we realize he's actually negligent, abusive to his subordinates, and probably has some toxic masculinity issues; and Freeman at first appears to be a Starfleet hardass before we learn she is actually Mariner's mother. Everybody is more complicated than they appear at first glance.
  • There appears to be another Klingon or person with Klingon ancestry serving in Starfleet! An unnamed extra looked like he had a bumpy Klingon forehead; I could not tell if he was supposed to be a Klingon like Worf or a Klingon/Human hybrid like B'Elanna.
* * *
So much of the show seems poorly conceived. Ensign Mariner is a fuck up who doesn’t give a shit, but she’s also a hypercompetent know-it-all who insists on being the acknowledged as smartest one in the room.

I've definitely met people like that in real life. Didn't bother me or strike me as poorly-conceived.

Nice to see the episode title listed in the credits. That's a Star Trek tradition that was missing from Discovery and Picard.

It feels right to me that they should do that for LD, but I honestly think it would be out of place for DIS or PIC. I think it works for LD because LD is mimicking, and gently parodying, the tropes of TNG -- hence using the TNG font for the credits, and hence having TNG-esque uniforms (even though in-universe, Starfleet had just adopted the FC/DS9 uniforms 7 years earlier and would be adopting yet another new uniform design just five year later).

Barnes appears to be a Trill. Why does she have a human name? Half-Trill, maybe?

Could be a lot of reasons. Maybe she's biologically a Trill but was raised by a Human family. Maybe she's from a family of Trill who emigrated to Earth or a Human world and adopted Human names. Or maybe "Barnes" just a name that exists independently in both Earth and Trill languages.

Rutherford's implant has me curious. Are Starfleet officers allowed to get cybernetic enhancement at any time? I had assumed that Rutherford had some kind of accident or something, but it really seems he volunteered to have the implant.

I don't remember any lines indicating the implant was voluntary, or precluding the idea he gained it as some kind of accident.

Which is just the kind of thing we want to see from a Starfleet crew when an invasive force is storming through the galaxy, is turning around and going away.

"Humor. It is a difficult concept."

- Douglas Station looks alot like old Earth Spacedock... but isn't Spacedock. I wonder what the scale is, if it can be determined by the starship sizes (probably much bigger than Spacedock).

Well, we know that Starbase 74 from TNG: "11001001" had to have been much larger than Earth Spacedock even though it was clearly a scaled-up version of the same design, because the Enterprise-D fit through the doors, whereas she would never have fit through the doors on Spacedock.

Assuming that the saucer of a California-class ship is as large as that on a Galaxy-class ship, I would assume that Douglas Station is as large as Starbase 74.

- Tendi is from "Outpost 79" - not sure if that's a border outpost (a la the 23 Outposts on the Romulan-Federation border or the 11 Epsilon Outposts on the Klingon-Federation border) or some other outcropping.

It would be a nice touch if it were an outpost near the Neutral Zone, especially considering what's coming with regards to the fate of Romulus.

- If Boimler graduated in '79 (one year ago... but also Data's original graduation date!), then he's probably about 23 years old and was born about 2357. A couple years younger than Jake Sisko.

Interesting catch!

- There's a sword on the Captain's display case. I wonder if that will be used in later episodes, especially with the later reference to "needing a new sword guy". I'll keep an eye on Freeman's Sword. I also thought I saw a USS Franklin model, but it's probably just another California class or the Cerritos herself.

I'm pretty sure it wasn't the Franklin; the warp nacelles appeared to be below the saucer, not above.

- Mariner using an Argo jeep seems to get universal praise.

The Argo jeep was not a well-liked part of NEM, so I see no reason to think it was used out of a desire to get "universal praise." It was probably used because the writers liked the idea that Starfleet has regular ground cars for some missions.

I still have qualms about its existence even 18 years after its introduction. It was somewhat understandable as a personal affectation of Picard's, but as a standard issue wheeled-conveyance... I don't know. Maybe it's meant for civilizations without blowing their mind on anti-gravity, but anti-grav shuttles should be the default.

I don't agree. I think it makes sense to default to a vehicle where the fewest possible negative consequences can occur if it fails if there is not a compelling need for the vehicle to go faster than can be accomplished via ground transport.

- Mariner fought a Yeti in a Klingon prison. Is a Yeti some alien species? Or an actual Abominable Snowman that exists in Star Trek Land and has achieved sentience (sapience).

I'm pretty sure she's using an Earth colloquialism to refer to an alien species. Specifically, I'm pretty sure that is an example of McMahan poking gentle fun at plot elements from Star Trek, since "stuck in a Klingon prison and forced to fight a space Yeti to keep my shoes because he was just being a jerk" sounds an awful lot like Kirk fighting off the alien prisoners on Rura Penthe in TUC.

- Despite what Rutherford believes, it's probably a good thing that the hatches didn't recognize his combadge. They're dealing with infected officers, all of whom have important combadges.

Good point! I think the whole thing speaks to Rutherford having a compulsive desire to control his environment in times of crisis, even to his own detriment, though.

- Boimler has been serving on the Cerritos (with Mariner) for "a year", since his graduation probably, yet he's only been to three planets (not counting Earth and Vulcan). Doesn't seem to have been an exciting year.

I find it eminent plausible that a fresh Academy graduate might be stuck with shipside assignments for the first six months of his tour of duty.

Also, first contact with the Galardonians (and the Quito) was more than a year ago, but they're only now getting a Second Contact?

I think that makes sense. If they made first contact only last year, that means Galadoria is probably located far outside of Federation space. It's plausible that it might take up to a year before another ship is available and able to travel that far out.

Freeman has had Mariner under her command for an entire year and only now decides to get her out?

She's only just now decided that there's another officer who can keep an eye on her.

- Barnes, the engineer from deflector control, is operating the Ops Console at the end of the episode. And in the "This Season" trailer.

Good catch!

- The Admiral (Admiral Mariner?) has an interesting uniform. Only one set of admiral pips (four-pip, full admiral) and some sort of shoulder epaulettes and gold piping, but otherwise a standard LD uniform. I kinda wanted to see the Picard Admiral uniform in animated style.

It looked like the PIC 2385-era admiral's uniform in animated style to me?

- They seem to be pairing up Tendi and Rutherford, and probably Boimler and Mariner. Oh well.

Yeah, but I'm not convinced yet that either pairing will be romantic. Boimler and Mariner are clearly being paired up because their respective strengths and flaws will hopefully balance each other out and prompt each other to grow into better versions of themselves. That arc doesn't need to be romantic (though it can be); platonic relationships could accomplish that same artistic goal.

- Except Mariner considers Deanna Troi to have a "bangin' body". With her all-nude male holoprogram and potential attraction to Deanna Troi, maybe she keeps her options open.

It is possible that Mariner is bisexual or pansexual, yeah. Of course it's also possible she's straight and just appreciates sexual attractiveness where she sees it; we'll find out, I'm sure.

You don't see the difference between a group of characters traveling back in time and meeting the founder of their entire way of life, and a character just shouting out a string of character names and events completely out of the thin blue sky?

Overly-exuberant enthusiasm can be funny.

Honestly, I could see this show really growing on me and becoming a favorite. We finally get an optimistic TNG series. Just goes to show that TPTB can do optimistic trek if they wanted to, they just don't want DISC or PIC to be that kind of show.

I really enjoyed LD too, but I'm not sure if "optimistic" is the right word for it; I mean, the characters are pretty screwed up people, especially Mariner. I think what you may be reacting to is that it feels light-hearted and doesn't frame its characters' flaws in the serious, ponderous manner PIC and DIS frames their characters' flaws.

My advice though: I think the show needs to slow down a bit. It's like the show is hyped up on red bull. Or maybe it's just Mariner that is hyped on the Trek version of red bull. LOL. It felt way too quick paced. Some jokes could have landed better if they had paused a bit after the punch line.

Given what I've seen of Rick & Morty, I think that's just the style they've chosen for the show and the style McMahan uses in general.

Personally, I like it. I remember noticing that even in 1999, shows like The West Wing had a faster pace than VOY, DS9, and ENT. I think it's good that LD can escape the sheer ponderousness of Berman-era shows.

As I said, I feel like the main issue with the episode is that - while a good episode - it fails as a pilot because the main characters are not introduced in great enough detail. It's basically a Mariner/Boimler episode, and that's it.

I strongly disagree. I think we get a strong sense of each character's motivations and personality.

Of course, neither Discovery nor Picard had a true pilot episode.

I mean, what is a "true pilot episode" anymore? This is the Modern Golden Age of Television, and the concept of a "pilot" isn't always applicable to the kinds of shows that are being produced.

I've never seen an episode of The Orville. Some trailers, some scenes. No appeal for me there. Saw a scene today with the actress who played Kassidy on DS9, walking in on her robot boyfriend/husband in underwear. And apparently that's funny AND smart as hell for some reason. Maybe it's because it was out of context, but I've never been drawn to the idea of Orville.
It basically feels like Seth Macfarlane trying to rebuild his childhood as a Trekkie and him being the captain. Something all Trekkies want. He just has the money to get it done I guess.

The Orville is very much MacFarlane proverbially deciding to build his own Star Trek, but with blackjack and hookers.

Because Trek’s only purpose now is to serve as comfort food for a dying fan base.

Strongly disagree. They wouldn't be doing shows like Lower Decks if they didn't think they could attract people who are not hardcore Trekkies. For that matter, DIS and PIC wouldn't have aesthetic influences from the Kelvin Timeline films if they weren't trying to attract an audience base outside of the hard-core Trekkies.

Just saw the episode and I give it a solid 8.
The characters are likable, the jokes are funny and they seem to up for exploiting the fact that it's a cartoon, by giving us all those Alien background extras.

I really loved how much more species diversity they can do in LD than in traditional Trek. I hope they keep it up.

people say what you will but this Animated show gave us a tiny snippet about Orion culture that isn't about sex or piracy, gotta respect that.

1,000% yes!

The premise felt a bit odd for a pilot episode -- watching a crew full of officers go mad would carry a bit more weight if we actually knew some of these people from prior episodes, but I get that the senior staff aren't the focus here -- but it got the job done.

I think the idea is that the zombie infection is intended to carry absolutely no weight whatsoever; it's a commentary on how absurd it is that ST crews go through so many massive events that would in real life be deeply traumatizing, once-in-a-lifetime experiences, and on the unrealistic way those characters deal with those events and move on. "No, this stuff happens all the time! So where are you quartered again?"

  • The opening credits are great too. I loved the jab at the Voyager opening credits with the Cerratos clipping the spire on the ice planet. For a split second, I thought they were using the rejected Dennis McCarthy TNG theme. I think it would have been a good fit!

OMG, I had no idea about the rejected McCarthy theme. That was... that was terrible. That was painful. That was trapped in the 80s. I am so glad they didn't use that one!

From what I can tell that's how they talk and behave across all of the current crop/Kurtzman Trek series because he apparently thinks people will talk the exact same way we do today 300 years in to the future so all the characters have to talk and act like 21st Century Millennials.

So, here's the thing: They're damned if they do and they're damned if they don't.

Pick up a copy of the King James Version of the Bible, or of the Complete Works of William Shakespeare. Check out this video for a sense of what the English accent sounded like circa 1600, and start reading out loud.

Have you noticed something? Have you noticed how completely different standard prescriptive English sounded 400 years ago? How grammar, spelling, and pronunciation have changed?

If when Star Trek sticks to writing characters as solely speaking in standard prescriptivist American English, it is just as unrealistic as if it starts having characters speak in 2010s-2020s era colloquialisms, because the English language is going to change in 400 years no matter what.

So Star Trek has to be written in some form of contemporary English, because it's going to sound unintelligible to most audiences if it doesn't.

And quite frankly? I would much rather Star Trek acknowledge the legitimacy and variety of colloquialisms and of alternate dialects of English, from African-American Vernacular English to Scottish English to Bajan English to Indian English, than I would that Star Trek stick with standard prescriptivist American English. Because sticking to that particular dialect is, quite frankly, classist and implicitly racist. Many, many dialects of English from many different cultures and classes are equally valid, and they deserve representation.

So if Star Trek has to be written in some form of contemporary English -- which it does -- and if it is equally unrealistic for any form of contemporary English to be used -- which it is -- then, all other things being equal, it's better for Star Trek to include more than standard prescriptivist American English -- which means, it's good that it includes 2020s vernacular.

Got a smile on his face, so probably Romulan.

Or Vulcan raised on Earth, or a Romulan immigrant to the Federation, or a Vulcan who has rejected their native culture, or a Vulcan-like Rigellian...

And at that point in history, there might be defectors or refugees or other immigrants openly getting through the Academy...?

Yep! In fact, I would argue there's a decent probability that there have always been Romulans who make their way over the border and into the Federation. Romulan migrants may well be to Federation worlds near the border what Cubans have been for many decades to Miami.

Honestly this show was way less "Adult" than I expected. Minimal profanity (with shit bleeped out) no explicit nudity, and the violence wasn't that graphic. So far much more kid friendly than Discovery or Picard.

I honestly don't agree. I would feel more comfortable with my nieces and nephews watching most episodes of PIC or DIS -- not all, but most -- than this, because I suspect the zombie outbreak would be more disturbing to most kids.
 
Okay, I haven’t seen it (European) but I watched every public scene and the intro, and read everything Memory Alpha got on it. Memory Beta is still...sparse, I had to write that stuff myself. :rommie:

I love it. I was predisposed to liking it because of the Final Space animation style and type of humour. It’s a funny world but believable as something you could walk into.

Character design, ship and environment are colourful and beautiful. STO has already translated the main four ensigns into the game’s art style: https://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/11476673-free-lower-decks-duty-officers!

I hope to see more tie-in material to the show - comics, novels, Star Trek Timelines characters, Eaglemoss, etc.

Looking forward to watching it for real but until then I’ll soak up all public official sources. Really annoying that YouTube keeps pushing hater videos, from accounts I blocked, at me.

I wonder, if they show flashbacks to ‘79 (NEM) or the Dominion War, would the characters appear in era-appropriate uniforms?
 
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Good grief! The guys at Trekyards did a 2-hour long review of this! Like the guys, but man, that's usually how long their TNG reviews run and this episode was half as long! I think this I'm watching in parts.
 
The opening credits are great too. I loved the jab at the Voyager opening credits with the Cerratos clipping the spire on the ice planet. For a split second, I thought they were using the rejected Dennis McCarthy TNG theme. I think it would have been a good fit!

That would have been much better. I don't know what it is with New Trek's theme tunes but they're all so completely forgettable. And now I can include LD in that group.
 
I had to watch it twice.

Because it wasn't what I was expecting at all.

It wasn't laugh a minute like Rick and Morty.

It wasn't serious Trek in animated form like TAS.

But it was cute! It was fun! And once I shed my expectations, it was really watchable, and didn't disrespect Trek at all. If anything it felt like TNG with a lighter fluffier tone. Interested to see where it goes over the next few episodes. I may just be hooked.
 
Good grief! The guys at Trekyards did a 2-hour long review of this! Like the guys, but man, that's usually how long their TNG reviews run and this episode was half as long! I think this I'm watching in parts.

I've noticed a lot of Trek podcasts seem to be doing much longer reviews than the length of the actual episode. Kinda wish they would cut to the chase.
 
Good grief! The guys at Trekyards did a 2-hour long review of this! Like the guys, but man, that's usually how long their TNG reviews run and this episode was half as long! I think this I'm watching in parts.
That is their live stream discussion, they have a 26 minute normal review uploaded earlier today.

But spoilers, they liked it, Samuel even said it was the best Star Trek since 2005.
 
I've noticed a lot of Trek podcasts seem to be doing much longer reviews than the length of the actual episode. Kinda wish they would cut to the chase.

To be "fair" it was their full recap/breakdown they do Live so they stop a lot to do the Superchats and stuff, but 2 hours for a 25-minutes long cartoon is a bit much, there's been TNG episodes they've done in under 2 hours. So I'll watch that one later.

They did do a pre-recorded more traditional review that was under 30 minutes.

Full review:
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I want to stress again that I didn't totally hate this episode, but I'd probably rate it a "5" or a Flat-C or something just generally in the middle, I didn't love or hate it, but there's aspects of it that I didn't like and that for me just doesn't "fit" and Star Trek for me is just something I really enjoy and probably take "too seriously" but I don't have much for me right now.

So It's sort of pestering to just see some of this goofiness that for me just doesn't fit. But I'll keep watching until something happens that turns me completely away which I don't think will happen story-wise like what happened with Picard, more than likely I'll just get annoyed with Mariner or the humor will get to be just too much and feel out of place.

And, well, for me that's just a big part of it. The humor didn't fit and wasn't funny.
 
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