STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

[Therin of Andor]

Military hats for Star Fleet officers? What? I understand that this is a "reboot" and a new timeline as of some 25 years from the time of the movie but millitary hats?

A homage to Pike's hat from "The Cage", which ended up being used as set dressing rather than as an item of wardrobe. It was originally created as Robert April's officer cap, and was mentioned in an earlier version of the script of "The Cage.":
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Starfleet_uniform_(2250s-2260s)#Hat

 

[Opus]

May I extend a welcome, Crazyfingers.
Understand, we are a fun lot.
People may say otherwise, but
Please take time to observe before judging.
Everyone's opinions are welcome.
Thanks for sharing!

 

[SeerSGB]

Also I know what you mean by the feeling being off, it's like something is missing or Star Trek is trying to be something it isn't and it ain't working out.

Aren't you someone who admits to not having watched all of TOS? Star Trek: The Original Series and Modern Trek are two distinct animals. Star Trek was action-adventure and Modern Trek was more of a straight drama. So if you hold the Abrams films against Modern Trek, obviously something will feel 'off'.

Whether or not a person likes or dislikes the films, I don't think there's much argument that they were built in the image of TOS, not the spin-offs.

Bingo. Yank all the sci-fi out of it, and TOS is just a western or cop show at it's core--both things Gene was familiar with working on, and it showed in TOS. TOS was also more of anthology style show: a consistent set of characters from show to show aside, the writing was less focused on continuity and world building and more on telling a good story. They weren't overly worried with contradicting prior episodes.

 

[Opus]

I am 51 and have been watching Star Trek since I can remember. last night with my wife away I rented Into Darkness. To say I was disappointed would be a huge understatement, in fact it is the only Star Trek movie I have ever fallen asleep while watching. Admittedly only for a few minutes.

The first movie with this new crew was very good and set the stage for a whole new Star Trek. With this latest offering they have taken the arguably the best Start Trek movie of all time "Wrath of Khan" and bastardized it! Nothing new and a very poor adaptation of the original.

With the huge budgets and an endless story possibilities available in a never ending universe, this is the best thing they could come up with?? Reversing the characters Kirk for Spock, in one of the most memorable scenes not just in Star Trek history but in cinematic history was a travesty. I was embarrassed.

What's with senior star fleet crew not only having a relationship but openly kissing on deck? I must be getting old and presume this sort of rubbish is aimed at a newer generation. I can't believe the new Star Trek viewers are that stupid!

Character development in this movie was puerile. Again, I must be showing my age but what's with the casual relationship and interactions between the captain and his subordinate officers and crew?

I just wanted to vent and will never post another comment. I joined today just to express my disappointment to people who might understand.

Well it's my first post on this discussion board. I'll admit to being very surprised how many people here actually think that the movie is one of several shades of A. I think that it's bad and I was very disappointed.

I grew up on Star Trek TOS being old enough to have appreciated the 3rd season still in its first run on TV. And then subsequent years in syndication. I have loved all of the other series and have all TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY and ENT on DVD and pretty much watch them all the time. It did take me a while to get to know DS9 but now I love it.

I liked most of the movies.

We got the Into Darkness DVD when it was released a bit over a week ago. The kids like it so I've seen it three times.

I really don't like it and I was curious what other star trek fans actually thought as opposed to the general public. So I googled a bit and found this forum.

I guess I'm in the minority and I'm really surprised. Though I'm not here to say anyone is right or wrong. I am surprised.

To me it's just not Star Trek.

Military hats for Star Fleet officers? What? I understand that this is a "reboot" and a new timeline as of some 25 years from the time of the movie but millitary hats?

And I'm sorry but Klingons would not have different DNA as a result of a changed timeline from 25 years ago.

I liked Star Trek 2009 because I think it still had the star Trek feel. And no I don't know how better to describe that feel. That's even though it's preposterous to make a Star Fleet cadet who hasn't even graduated a full Captain. But I liked it.

I don't like Into Darkness. To me the whole feel is just off.

I figured I'd introduce the two of you. The resemblance is uncanny!

 

[ComicGuy89]

It's not the first time Star Trek looked so distinctly military:

At least in this film, compared to the Wrath of Khan, they argue they're not military.

Also I know what you mean by the feeling being off, it's like something is missing or Star Trek is trying to be something it isn't and it ain't working out.

Aren't you someone who admits to not having watched all of TOS? Star Trek: The Original Series and Modern Trek are two distinct animals. Star Trek was action-adventure and Modern Trek was more of a straight drama. So if you hold the Abrams films against Modern Trek, obviously something will feel 'off'.

Whether or not a person likes or dislikes the films, I don't think there's much argument that they were built in the image of TOS, not the spin-offs.

Indeed, this over and over again. To an extent, I'm a bit annoyed at how much TNG and subsequent Treks have become the standard of what Trek is. Due to their popularity, this is understandable, of course, but people forget what TOS was really like, in my opinion.

 

[Maurice]

Reversing the characters Kirk for Spock, in one of the most memorable scenes not just in Star Trek history but in cinematic history was a travesty. I was embarrassed.

And I'm embarrassed by how little some fans know about cinematic history.

 

[Hober Mallow]

Star Trek: The Original Series and Modern Trek are two distinct animals.

I hope more fans begin to see this, and that the influence of Berman-Trek continues to wane. It had its time, but it was just one derivative version of Star Trek, no more relevant than any other reboot.

 

[Beyerstein]

Everyone made such a big deal about the Nimoy scene, but as i was re-watching it this weekend i realized, Spock Prime didn't tell him anything other than Khan is super dangerous and they were only able to defeat him at great cost.

Then it cuts away. we don't see what he said. He may have then said that's all he can tell him. He didn't necessarily explain in detail how they defeated Khan like many people have inferred.

Plus it doesn't seem like Spock would have needed to talk to Spock prime to come up with the idea to remove the bodies from the torpedoes and detonate them on the Vengeance.

 

[Ln X]

Also I know what you mean by the feeling being off, it's like something is missing or Star Trek is trying to be something it isn't and it ain't working out.

Aren't you someone who admits to not having watched all of TOS? Star Trek: The Original Series and Modern Trek are two distinct animals. Star Trek was action-adventure and Modern Trek was more of a straight drama. So if you hold the Abrams films against Modern Trek, obviously something will feel 'off'.

Whether or not a person likes or dislikes the films, I don't think there's much argument that they were built in the image of TOS, not the spin-offs.

I am very much aware of the feel of TOS, Modern Trek and every Star Trek series (barring the TAS which I have not seen) and movie. But TOS, Modern Trek and JJ Trek are three separate animals, while JJ Trek is a blending of TOS and Modern Trek.

The reason why I've watched parts of TOS is because there was too much campy nonsense and silliness, a pity really because when it focused on morality and ethics TOS really shined. Also what I saw of TOS strongly reminded me of TNG's season 1 which is one of the worst seasons of any Trek series I have ever seen.

I'm glad TNG got its act together and removed some of the campy 'fun' and sillyness. Finally DS9 got it right and was the first Trek series were I felt the characters were actual people, they were not the squeaky clean characters of TNG. One thing I will say for TOS, its characters felt more like people but that was smothered with a plethora of crazy hijinks and mad plots!

Personally Modern Trek got its bad name because of VOY and ENT, if Modern Trek had ended with DS9 in 1999 I think it would have been viewed in a more favourable light.

And talking about fun and what not. DS9 did satire, dark humour and comedy the best even though it had at times some of the heaviest moments in Star Trek. IMO Star Trek's finest moments occurred when things became very serious or very deep: The Inner Light, Sins of the Father, The Chain of Command, Duet, Improbable Cause, In the Pale Moonlight, Inter Arma Silent Enim Leges, Year of Hell and so forth. Moments which flowed and did not feel forced.

The same applies with the movies: TWOK, TUC and First Contact. Those were some heavy muthas...

Granted TOS was a bit more imaginative with the sci-fi, but those ideas were not so fully explored. With modern trek you have Data, the Borg, the Prophets, the Nexus, changelings. These are sci-fi concepts which we are still talking about even now.

And that's why I liked Star Trek 09 because it had some fun moments, it had some crazy action sequences, some weird sci-fi and some thoughtful moments with the characters. The scenes concerning Spock's juvenile days felt very much akin to Modern Trek, though I'm certain having Spock Prime also helped. Star Trek 09 was a great balance between TOS and Modern Trek, and while ST 09 is not one of my favourite Trek movies, there was a clear vision behind it and JJ Abrams was on the ball with it. It was a great balancing of TOS and Modern Trek.

STID was missing some of that razor sharpness of ST 09, the action sequences lacked that extra oomph which made it more engaging, and strangely the characters became less engaging as the movie wore on. Consider the space suit scene in both ST 09 and STID. ST 09's version was ten times better while STID's was offski.

It feels as if STID has lost its identity, its focus or even its very purpose. Is this new universe designed to revisit Star Trek greatest moments, or is it to search for its own moments of glory and greatness? If TWOK was ST's biggest hit, then STID feels like a remastering and an updated version- yet it lacks TWOK's soul.

That's why I feel something is off with STID.

 

[Hober Mallow]

The same applies with the movies: TWOK, TUC and First Contact. Those were some heavy muthas...

You really think those were "heavy" movies?

 

[Kemaiku]

Guy wants revenge, Klingons are Russians and Killer Cyborgs! wow yes my brain hurts from just writing that. No, wait.

 

[Opus]

TWOK - Khan was a mustache-twirling villain.

TUC - Klingons Empire = USSR. Don't confuse 'clever' with 'heavy'. It wasn't as deep as people say it was. And they got lucky with the whole 'Art Imitates Life' aspect of the fall of Soviet Russia. It has been falling for years at that point. And don't get me started on the TOS crew being bigots...

FC - Really? Heavy? Really? It was a popcorn action movie where Picard played the role as Khan. Of course, that was only because the writers decided to ignore TNG's 5th Season episode 'I, Borg' where Picard had already confronted his desire for revenge.

Don't get me wrong - I love all three of those movies. I simply don't see how Abrams Trek doesn't rate 'up' to these films. I've never said ST09 or STiD didn't have their problems. They do. These examples do too. And I like ALL OF THEM because they are fun and enjoyable Trek adventures with characters I enjoy and written well.

 

[CorporalClegg]

Maybe he means like the Marty McFly "heavy?"

 

[Opus]

Is there something wrong with the earth's gravitational pull?

 

[SeerSGB]

Thinking about marathoning ST09, STID, and TMP this late Saturday night coming up. Six hours of Trek could be fun--if I don't fall asleep

 

[Amaris]

Maybe he means like the Marty McFly "heavy?"

Is there something wrong with the earth's gravitational pull?

You guys just made my day.

 

[doubleohfive]

My friend Kay Reindl, who wrote that brilliant blog post all about why Star Trek Into Darkness is actually a fine film and rather unworthy of much of the criticism it has received, has posted another blog entry responding to the reaction her first post got. Highly entertaining and with even more good points to consider:

The Ego of Entitlement

And once again, she nails it.

 

[doubleohfive]

Kay Strikes Again! From her latest blog entry, The Neverending Story:

There is nothing more irritating in the world of entertainment than someone saying, "If you ignore all the legitimate complaints, I can see how these movies might seem good." If you can't recognize that you're being a patronizing dickwad, I have lost all hope for humanity. As for accepting the premise that the movies are good, nobody's making you accept anything. As I said previously, this post isn't FOR you. It's for the people who liked the movies. Not everything on the Internet is for everyone. But maybe the concept of enjoying something with like-minded people is lost on you. And who's the dummy who saw the second movie after hating the first one? Why do people do that? Those who got totally furious with the first movie still saw the second one in 3D. Um, why would you subject yourself to that?

 

[Balrog]

Hey! What can I say?

I loved the new Trek movie! I've seen it a bunch of times. Give it a solid A. Great fun! Nice nod to Classic Trek.

So it's been a while since I've been on the boards... What have I missed?

 

[M'Sharak]

So it's been a while since I've been on the boards... What have I missed?

I'm sure I'm failing to recall something staggeringly important, but I'd say it's mostly been more of the same old. Put a fresh coat of paint on it, and that's about all you've really missed. There may be some cool pictures and stuff, though.