STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]
- Thread starter Agent Richard07
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But they were frozen at death. And all three had curable issues in the 24 century.
Very true
Magic blood didn't bug me at all I actually thought it gave MCcoy a nice moment to shine
I can speak to the TNG-Neutral Zone example. I assume those people were cured of diseases for which cures were now found. So you take them out of cryosleep and it's a simple fix.
Search for Spock: Genesis was not a plot device, it was a plot point central to both this and TWOK. Secondly, it's not a magical death cure, but requires complete obliteration of life on a planet to create new life.
Changeling: haven't seen it in a LOOONG time so I can't speak to it.
Regardless, none of these instances are magically convenient plot device cures. The way Khan's blood is positioned (with no resolution might I add), it's just a magic cure.
Getting ready to go see it now. Noticed Rotten Tomatoes is up to 88% with almost 170 reviews. Quite a triumph on the heels of ST09. I plan on going into the movie to enjoy it, If something hits me over the head as illogical I'll mention it but I'm not going to dissect every scene of it as i watch it. If it flows, has pace, and is internally consistent I'll probably like it a lot.
RAMA
RAMA
But they were DEAD. If they can cure death in TNG without everyone's panties getting in a bunch then they should be able to cure death in a Trek movie without everyone's panties getting in a bunch.
They most likely could have been resuscitated in their time. But what would be the point then if technology of their time could not repair the damage.
They were dead...
The Neutral Zone said:
I hate when people try to tap dance to explain why something's okay in something they like but it's a crime against humanity if it's in something they don't like (or refuse to see).
Which is, of course, the point of bringing up how many plot holes, how much bad story logic and ridiculous "science" have always been a part of Star Trek.
People make the mistake of thinking that "just because they did it wrong before is no excuse" is a valid rebuttal. However, the saying that "no text can stand up to a hostile reading" is absolutely so - if one is willing to forgive or excuse a particular flaw in something that one likes then one has no business treating that same kind of thing as some sort of unforgivable reason to condemn something that one dislikes.
Love the film seen it twice once on IMAX 3D that was outstanding and once in 2D still very good but not loud enough didn't get the impact of the sound. I noticed that in IMAX 3D when we see the attack on London the Explosion sounded Incredible. Love the new warp effect and I love the start of the film as well great to see the natives drawing enterprise in the ground then it appears flying in space amazing piece of writing !!! Going to see it again tommorow !!
Whatever dude. I said nothing about Khans blood. The whole point of Cryonics is to slow decay of the body after death in hopes you can cure the disease or repair the damage in the future.
Dude, give it a rest already. We can resuscitate clinically dead people NOW.
Which is what happened when McCoy placed Kirk in a cryo-tube in order to slow the decay of brain functions.
Wow.
Are you aware that dying of advanced emphysema and liver damage is more biologically and medically complex than the kind of "clinical death" that we resuscitate people from?
I just saw it. I think for a big popcorn summer blockbuster film there's a lot going for it. As as Trek film, I thought it was disappointing.
Positives:
-Big action: There's a lot of action in this film and most of it is well done.
-Big scope: Abrams films are the only Trek films that really feel like movies in terms of production values and epic feel. Perhaps Star Trek the Motion Picture also falls into that category, but I can never sit through that film.
-Cast: I don't think anyone lost a step since Trek 2009. And the additions gave solid performances even if I didn't always like the lines they were given.
-Balls: It took balls to do a mash up of Space Seed and Wrath of Khan. Ever since TWOK almost every Trek film has tried to make a Khan clone the main bad guy. STID just says screw that and brings Khan back. Maybe now they will stop trying to redo TWOK.
-Major deaths: I wasn't expecting Pike to die and was surprised that they reversed the sacrifice scene with Kirk. For a few minutes I was pondering if they were going to carry on the franchise with Spock before trying to figure out what kind of hackneyed way they could bring Kirk back. I had forgotten about the tribble until right before they brought it back up.
-Kirk and Harrison first coming face to face: I like how Khan let Kirk punch himself out and it didn't faze him in the slightest. The only thing missing was him saying, "I have five times your strength."
-Nods: I liked seeing Sulu sit in the captain's chair, the call back to the Countdown into Darkness comic, Section 31
-Enterprise crew members: I liked the diversity of the crew and also many of the background actors.
-Klingons: I had real trepidations after seeing that first image of the Klingons. But up close I thought the guy looked Klingon enough for me.
Negatives:
-Khan: The film lost me as soon as Cumberbatch revealed himself. I wish they hadn't gone there and perhaps had just made Harrison one of the augments and not Khan. Doing that would have done nothing to change his goals. Plus the way the film ended would still leave Khan as a future possibility. Despite Cumberbatch's solid enough job, he doesn't measure up to Ricardo Montalban (sp). I thought it was solid in the sense that nuKhan looked menacing (at times overly so) and was lethal, but he lacked original Khan's charisma. NuKhan was too much cold fury.
Cumberbatch and Pine just didn't have the weight of years that Shatner and Montalban. Sure it was personal because of Pike. And Khan had a personal beef with Starfleet. Maybe the writers thought it was neat to put Kirk in the vengeance seat for a bit, but ultimately the emotional tie, the shared guilt and regret that I felt in TWOK was absent in STID.
-More Khan: Why is Khan British now? Couldn't they have found an Indian actor to play him this time around? Or another person of color? I also echo what's been said before about why no one seemed to know who Khan was, or even checked the computer after he told them I was created 300 years ago.
-Khan Three Times: I thought it made no sense for Khan to say he planned to continue making weapons even after he revived his people. I wish he had been more clear about what he planned to do with those weapons so that the stakes of letting him escape or stopping him would've been clearer.
-Admiral Marcus: I understand from a movie standpoint why he's in command of the Vengeance but it makes no sense. Seems like he would've had a flunky do that just to keep his hands clean. And I think it would be hard for the head of Starfleet to just disappear for an long period of time.
-More Admiral Marcus: I don't get why Marcus needed a 300-year-old guy, despite Khan's brilliance, to come up with weapons. I could see if Marcus was making super soldiers but he seemed to just be designing weapons.
-Nods: I thought it was cringe worthy when they started taking lines directly from TWOK. It just didn't feel right because I didn't think the emotional resonance was there. That's not to say that Kirk's death scene wasn't well played, particularly by Quinto. But his yelling Khan's name just didn't work for me. It felt corny in a way, and maybe it was corny in TWOK but it also felt real.
-Carol Marcus: Why is she British? Alice Eve definitely fit the part but I didn't get the British accent. I'm not quite sure how she finagled her way onto the Enterprise so easily-I had hoped she would be working with Section 31-but I didn't mind too much because I liked seeing them start her romance with Kirk. I didn't care for the Christine Chapel reference though. That should have been Yeoman Rand.
-Chekov: As Chief Engineer? Seriously? There was no one in Engineering that could've passably took over for Scotty? It seemed like a way to just give him something to do.
-Uhura: For the most part I didn't have a problem with her. I thought they gave her a little more to do and she even got into the action-not enough-on Kronos. My gripe is at the end when she beams down while Khan and Spock are fighting. For one, why didn't they just send security guards? Two, if Uhura insisted on going down there, why not send Hendorff to back her up?
-Klingon Empire: Where the heck were the Klingon ships? Why can the Enterprise go to the Klingon homeworld in like a day? Cross the Neutral Zone without any response from the Klingons? And then fly a ship onto their homeworld? If they had said it was a far flung Klingon colony or outpost I could've bought it but I thought they were stretching it a bit to make it Kronos. The Klingon Empire as it is presented in STID doesn't seem like that much of a threat. The film is relying on the reputation prime universe Trek has built for them when they should've been establishing how badass the Klingons were in the alternate universe.
-Klingon ships: I didn't like the new ships. It felt like a cross between a Bird-of-Prey and Transformers.
-Transporter beams that can go all the way to the Klingon homeworld?
-Enterprise under water. A cool visual but it made no sense. Why couldn't they just beam the away team to and from the ship up in space?
Positives:
-Big action: There's a lot of action in this film and most of it is well done.
-Big scope: Abrams films are the only Trek films that really feel like movies in terms of production values and epic feel. Perhaps Star Trek the Motion Picture also falls into that category, but I can never sit through that film.
-Cast: I don't think anyone lost a step since Trek 2009. And the additions gave solid performances even if I didn't always like the lines they were given.
-Balls: It took balls to do a mash up of Space Seed and Wrath of Khan. Ever since TWOK almost every Trek film has tried to make a Khan clone the main bad guy. STID just says screw that and brings Khan back. Maybe now they will stop trying to redo TWOK.
-Major deaths: I wasn't expecting Pike to die and was surprised that they reversed the sacrifice scene with Kirk. For a few minutes I was pondering if they were going to carry on the franchise with Spock before trying to figure out what kind of hackneyed way they could bring Kirk back. I had forgotten about the tribble until right before they brought it back up.
-Kirk and Harrison first coming face to face: I like how Khan let Kirk punch himself out and it didn't faze him in the slightest. The only thing missing was him saying, "I have five times your strength."
-Nods: I liked seeing Sulu sit in the captain's chair, the call back to the Countdown into Darkness comic, Section 31
-Enterprise crew members: I liked the diversity of the crew and also many of the background actors.
-Klingons: I had real trepidations after seeing that first image of the Klingons. But up close I thought the guy looked Klingon enough for me.
Negatives:
-Khan: The film lost me as soon as Cumberbatch revealed himself. I wish they hadn't gone there and perhaps had just made Harrison one of the augments and not Khan. Doing that would have done nothing to change his goals. Plus the way the film ended would still leave Khan as a future possibility. Despite Cumberbatch's solid enough job, he doesn't measure up to Ricardo Montalban (sp). I thought it was solid in the sense that nuKhan looked menacing (at times overly so) and was lethal, but he lacked original Khan's charisma. NuKhan was too much cold fury.
Cumberbatch and Pine just didn't have the weight of years that Shatner and Montalban. Sure it was personal because of Pike. And Khan had a personal beef with Starfleet. Maybe the writers thought it was neat to put Kirk in the vengeance seat for a bit, but ultimately the emotional tie, the shared guilt and regret that I felt in TWOK was absent in STID.
-More Khan: Why is Khan British now? Couldn't they have found an Indian actor to play him this time around? Or another person of color? I also echo what's been said before about why no one seemed to know who Khan was, or even checked the computer after he told them I was created 300 years ago.
-Khan Three Times: I thought it made no sense for Khan to say he planned to continue making weapons even after he revived his people. I wish he had been more clear about what he planned to do with those weapons so that the stakes of letting him escape or stopping him would've been clearer.
-Admiral Marcus: I understand from a movie standpoint why he's in command of the Vengeance but it makes no sense. Seems like he would've had a flunky do that just to keep his hands clean. And I think it would be hard for the head of Starfleet to just disappear for an long period of time.
-More Admiral Marcus: I don't get why Marcus needed a 300-year-old guy, despite Khan's brilliance, to come up with weapons. I could see if Marcus was making super soldiers but he seemed to just be designing weapons.
-Nods: I thought it was cringe worthy when they started taking lines directly from TWOK. It just didn't feel right because I didn't think the emotional resonance was there. That's not to say that Kirk's death scene wasn't well played, particularly by Quinto. But his yelling Khan's name just didn't work for me. It felt corny in a way, and maybe it was corny in TWOK but it also felt real.
-Carol Marcus: Why is she British? Alice Eve definitely fit the part but I didn't get the British accent. I'm not quite sure how she finagled her way onto the Enterprise so easily-I had hoped she would be working with Section 31-but I didn't mind too much because I liked seeing them start her romance with Kirk. I didn't care for the Christine Chapel reference though. That should have been Yeoman Rand.
-Chekov: As Chief Engineer? Seriously? There was no one in Engineering that could've passably took over for Scotty? It seemed like a way to just give him something to do.
-Uhura: For the most part I didn't have a problem with her. I thought they gave her a little more to do and she even got into the action-not enough-on Kronos. My gripe is at the end when she beams down while Khan and Spock are fighting. For one, why didn't they just send security guards? Two, if Uhura insisted on going down there, why not send Hendorff to back her up?
-Klingon Empire: Where the heck were the Klingon ships? Why can the Enterprise go to the Klingon homeworld in like a day? Cross the Neutral Zone without any response from the Klingons? And then fly a ship onto their homeworld? If they had said it was a far flung Klingon colony or outpost I could've bought it but I thought they were stretching it a bit to make it Kronos. The Klingon Empire as it is presented in STID doesn't seem like that much of a threat. The film is relying on the reputation prime universe Trek has built for them when they should've been establishing how badass the Klingons were in the alternate universe.
-Klingon ships: I didn't like the new ships. It felt like a cross between a Bird-of-Prey and Transformers.
-Transporter beams that can go all the way to the Klingon homeworld?
-Enterprise under water. A cool visual but it made no sense. Why couldn't they just beam the away team to and from the ship up in space?
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I have a cryo tube in my pants
Saw the midnight showing last night.
Like the first one, it was a fun, enjoyable movie. They went a little overboard in the fanservice, though. Some of it was ok, like Section 31 and what I presume was Praxis (I really liked that touch). It was the parts that seemed more like direct copies (or even rip-offs) than homages or references that bugged me, particularly the radiation scene. But when Spock did his "KHAAAANNN!" I literally groaned. It was just ridiculous, and I couldn't take it the least bit seriously.
But don't get me wrong, I enjoyed it. It was a fun summer blockbuster movie. I just wish JJ and his bunch could have come up with something more original instead of rehashing an old villain, and lifting scenes straight from previous Trek.
C+
Like the first one, it was a fun, enjoyable movie. They went a little overboard in the fanservice, though. Some of it was ok, like Section 31 and what I presume was Praxis (I really liked that touch). It was the parts that seemed more like direct copies (or even rip-offs) than homages or references that bugged me, particularly the radiation scene. But when Spock did his "KHAAAANNN!" I literally groaned. It was just ridiculous, and I couldn't take it the least bit seriously.
But don't get me wrong, I enjoyed it. It was a fun summer blockbuster movie. I just wish JJ and his bunch could have come up with something more original instead of rehashing an old villain, and lifting scenes straight from previous Trek.
C+
Why don't you go to a cinema complex and buy a ticket for a movie that you already approve of (obviously not Star Trek) thats on about the same time. Buy some popcorn and drinks so you're not ripping off the cinema complex and 'accidentally' go into the wrong cinema and actually see STID.
That way you can be qualified to comment and also stick it to Abrams at the same time.
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