STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

[Flake]

Question...spoiler alert...... Why does McCoy decide he needs Khans blood when there are 72 other survivors of the Botany Bay onboard ship? Infact when McCoy asks for a cryo tube I assumed at the time that he was going to harvest another augments blood. I think it was a mistake, one of many, by the script writers. They now want us to believe that only Khans blood was special and it was different to the others. A line stating 'I tested the other augments blood and it did not have regenerative properties' would have been nice. Have I fell into the nitpicking trap or should I simply overlook this? I could say the same about many other points of the script but I am starting with this

I think another script writer from the TNG or movie era could do a much better job of a nuTrek movie, hell even Brannon Braga could write a better movie that is more reverant to the source material.

ST09 did not bother me but I found STID did annoy me frequently during the movie.... Not sure why ATM!

 

[M'Sharak]

Re: Newspaper movie review of Into Darkness

Obviously contains spoilers.

The Independent (a British newspaper) has reviewed Star Trek Into Darkness, if anyone is interested. The reviewers opinion comes down to "Star Trek Into Darkness gets the job done without ever threatening to raise one’s pulse."

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-e...ill-underwhelm-even-the-trekkies-8609801.html

For those who dislike reading things in a narrow column, here it is in a more normal format.

Spoiler: easier on the eyes.

The cheers and whoops that greeted the 2009 relaunch of the Star Trek series contained in them, I thought, a big bass note of relief. For JJ Abrams had taken on the tricky task not only of appeasing a notoriously judgemental fanbase but of winning over a new generation of cinemagoers to whom a 1960s cult TV serial meant virtually squat.

Abrams’s film was respectful of but not slavish towards the tradition, acknowledging its epic proportions without pretending that any of it was Homer. Some smart casting and a better than average script ensured that intergalactic harmony was promisingly established between old school and new.

<snip> [Please don't reproduce entire articles. Cite relevant bits and provide a link to the rest. - M']

Also obviously a review, which means this ought to go in the pinned Grading & Discussion thread. Sending there now...

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Batman uses the Joker repeatedly. Superman uses Luthor, and Zod, and retells the origin again.

Star Trek fans say "Star Trek is different because..." but I don't think that Paramount sees Star Trek as all that different from other big franchises with some history behind them - the very fact that they got behind the idea of starting over suggests this.

Fans envision Trek as a kind of surrogate reality in which they get to see a future world that's continually growing (although in practice it doesn't grow much and hasn't introduced much that's truly new since the original series ended). The studio's not trying to service that aspect of the fan base. The job of the folks assigned to create these blockbuster films isn't to expand Trek but to treat it as other franchises are successfully treated: collect those characters and those aspects of the familiar stories that they think are most resonant with and recognized by the public and put an extravagant new spin on them.

 

[Oso Blanco]

Why does McCoy decide he needs Khans blood when there are 72 other survivors of the Botany Bay onboard ship?

I've been asking myself that very question during the movie. Maybe it would have taken too long to unfreeze one of the other augments?

 

[Tom Servo]

Question...spoiler alert...... Why does McCoy decide he needs Khans blood when there are 72 other survivors of the Botany Bay onboard ship? Infact when McCoy asks for a cryo tube I assumed at the time that he was going to harvest another augments blood. I think it was a mistake, one of many, by the script writers. They now want us to believe that only Khans blood was special and it was different to the others. A line stating 'I tested the other augments blood and it did not have regenerative properties' would have been nice. Have I fell into the nitpicking trap or should I simply overlook this? I could say the same about many other points of the script but I am starting with this

I think another script writer from the TNG or movie era could do a much better job of a nuTrek movie, hell even Brannon Braga could write a better movie that is more reverant to the source material.

ST09 did not bother me but I found STID did annoy me frequently during the movie.... Not sure why ATM!

Two things. Do we know how long it actually takes to revive someone from cryosleep? Maybe McCoy didn't think they could wait that long. And also, why risk waking up another Augment? You've seen what just one can do, might as well try to take him alive rather then risk there being 2 to deal with.

 

[Flake]

Question...spoiler alert...... Why does McCoy decide he needs Khans blood when there are 72 other survivors of the Botany Bay onboard ship? Infact when McCoy asks for a cryo tube I assumed at the time that he was going to harvest another augments blood. I think it was a mistake, one of many, by the script writers. They now want us to believe that only Khans blood was special and it was different to the others. A line stating 'I tested the other augments blood and it did not have regenerative properties' would have been nice. Have I fell into the nitpicking trap or should I simply overlook this? I could say the same about many other points of the script but I am starting with this

I think another script writer from the TNG or movie era could do a much better job of a nuTrek movie, hell even Brannon Braga could write a better movie that is more reverant to the source material.

ST09 did not bother me but I found STID did annoy me frequently during the movie.... Not sure why ATM!

Two things. Do we know how long it actually takes to revive someone from cryosleep? Maybe McCoy didn't think they could wait that long. And also, why risk waking up another Augment? You've seen what just one can do, might as well try to take him alive rather then risk there being 2 to deal with.

I think McCoy got the cryo tube to preserve Kirk in readiness for the transfusion? If so they could wait hours even years to get the blood because he is in suspended animation, long enough to get some blood from mr augment.

 

[Oso Blanco]

I think McCoy got the cryo tube to preserve Kirk in readiness for the transfusion? If so they could wait hours even years to get the blood because he is in suspended animation, long enough to get some blood from mr augment.

I might be wrong, but I doubt you can keep someone in suspended animation once he's dead. There is nothing left to keep animated, is there?

 

[Flake]

I think McCoy got the cryo tube to preserve Kirk in readiness for the transfusion? If so they could wait hours even years to get the blood because he is in suspended animation, long enough to get some blood from mr augment.

I might be wrong, but I doubt you can keep someone in suspended animation once he's dead. There is nothing left to keep animated, is there?

Isn't this the point of cryonics? Freeze just after death before all the organs and most importantly the brain have not decayed to the point where they can never be repaired? See TNG 'the neutral zone', in that episode three people die of cancer or heart disease and are frozen just after death so they can potentially be revived in the future. As long as the brain is intact it can be done, so we have to assume Kirk was frozen within six minutes of death before the brain is damaged beyond repair.

I believe there are one or two companies today that offer this service.

 

[Solarbaby]

I enjoyed the previous more than this sequel. I gave it a b+. The thing that bugged me the most waw the ludicrous pot holes and crapping all over the laws of physics. And just how fast is the constitution class. Earth to kronos in minutes!! The enterprise D couldn't even do that!

I don't understand why people want to know spoilers. Its much more satisfying to see it without knowing whats going to happen. I was surprised and touched by certain plot twists. And surprise cameos from trek royalty. I'd be kicking myself now if id read online what was going to happen

 

[Oso Blanco]

Isn't this the point of cryonics? Freeze just after death before all the organs and most importantly the brain have not decayed to the point where they can never be repaired? See TNG 'the neutral zone', in that episode three people die of cancer or heart disease and are frozen just after death so they can potentially be revived in the future. As long as the brain is intact it can be done, so we have to assume Kirk was frozen within six minutes of death before the brain is damaged beyond repair.

I believe there are one or two companies today that offer this service.

Hmmm ... you have a point there with "The Neutral Zone". I was thinking that the augments had been frozen when they were still alive - which is probably true - but Bones must have been aware of the fact that you can freeze people shortly after their death and unfreeze them when you have a cure.

On the other hand, wouldn't the radiation cause even more damage during the time the body is being frozen? You can freeze cancer along with the body, but the radiation will continue damaging the body. Maybe to a point where no augment blood can repair it?

 

[Jon1701]

Random thoughts on the Enterprise:

She really felt a lot more fleshed out this time. She felt more real. I didn't mind budgerneering this time - I thought they framed the shots a lot better. I'm not sure of all of the locations but the sense of scale really felt there this time. I bought the idea of the Warp Core too.

I liked the crossover coridoor rooms where you could see the decks below (where would this be? In the centre of the saucer section under the bridge downwards?) but it doesn't seem very practical. Every time the ship comes under attack someone is going to fall off the railings!

Also, great shot when the shuttles fell over in the hanger deck.

 

[Flake]

Well the augment blood dilemma is inconclusive...

Ok, next one, spoiler alert:

Scotty shoots Cumberbatch on the vengeance and he's out with one shot. Unfortunately Uhura must have beamed down to the floating barge with a really shit phaser! Multiple shots and he's still going ! An inconsistency this time...

 

[Jon1701]

Well the augment blood dilemma is inconclusive...

Ok, next one, spoiler alert:

Scotty shoots Cumberbatch on the vengeance and he's out with one shot.

He's not though..isn't that the point?

 

[Oso Blanco]

Scotty shoots Cumberbatch on the vengeance and he's out with one shot. Unfortunately Uhura must have beamed down to the floating barge with a really shit phaser! Multiple shots and he's still going ! An inconsistency this time...

Maybe he was just playing stunned on the Vengeance to wait for the right moment to attack.

These are things that I can overlook, but beaming from Starfleet HQ to Kronos?

 

[Flake]

Well the augment blood dilemma is inconclusive...

Ok, next one, spoiler alert:

Scotty shoots Cumberbatch on the vengeance and he's out with one shot.

He's not though..isn't that the point?

Ahhh yes, I suppose so. *facepalm*

I definitely had my negative nitpick hat on during the movie it seems.

 

[Chu'lak]

I dunno, personally, I'm looking forward to the film - I'm seeing it on the 17th in 3D IMAX, probably taking my family to see it later on, then taking my best friend to see it.

Frankly, I'd rather see Khan himself than see a tired attempt to portray someone LIKE Khan. And instead of trying to impose the WOK storyline on another movie, we have a reinvented Khan (a la The Joker) in a new story. At least this is something new.

As for Khan being an ice cold mastermind type, I was talking my best friend recently and we were talking about how much movie tropes differ from era to era... And we agreed that if Khan had been written *now* instead of in the 60s, he'd be much more a cloak and dagger type and more morally ambiguous, because that's what the public will buy as a bad guy now.

^ This

Soran, Borg Queen, Ru'afo and Shinzon, have been nothing more than stupid attempts to make a Khan like villian, just give us Khan for god's sakes.

 

[Oso Blanco]

I think the main problem is that the writers seem to be pulling the villains out of their asses instead of naturally developing them.

 

[JarodRussell]

I dunno, personally, I'm looking forward to the film - I'm seeing it on the 17th in 3D IMAX, probably taking my family to see it later on, then taking my best friend to see it.

Frankly, I'd rather see Khan himself than see a tired attempt to portray someone LIKE Khan. And instead of trying to impose the WOK storyline on another movie, we have a reinvented Khan (a la The Joker) in a new story. At least this is something new.

As for Khan being an ice cold mastermind type, I was talking my best friend recently and we were talking about how much movie tropes differ from era to era... And we agreed that if Khan had been written *now* instead of in the 60s, he'd be much more a cloak and dagger type and more morally ambiguous, because that's what the public will buy as a bad guy now.

^ This

Soran, Borg Queen, Ru'afo and Shinzon, have been nothing more than stupid attempts to make a Khan like villian, just give us Khan for god's sakes.

If Soran and Ru'afo are supposed to be Khan-ripoffs, then Chang and Kruge are Khan-ripoffs as well.

 

[Timelord79 (he/him)]

Yeah, might as well call all villains Khan rip-offs then.

 

[thumbtack]

You know that somehow they're going to bring back NuKhan for the next film. Cumberbatch sold too many tickets for them.

Khan will be back. Not sure if it will be immediately, but no later than Star Trek 5.