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STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Grade the movie...


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Khan as an heroic figure in his own right has a lot of appeal. It somewhat restores him to his "Space Seed" persona.

Well, you know that JJ wants to establish his rep as an action director AND as an auteur as Spielberg did early on. JJ thought he was going to do that with Super 8. Didn't quite work out that way. Whereas Spielberg hit the jackpot with Jaws.

Seeing that JJ has reformatted the Khan character into something more complex and more akin to what he was in TOS (as you shrewdly upthread observed), Cumberbatch's range as an actor allows JJ to do many things.

Let's see what happens.
 
Star Trek on film is fucking dead to me now. I'll be staying out of this section and focusing on Trek literature to take my minds off this jizz-covered shit. Anti-intellectualism is dangerous and entirely uncool.

Does this mean you're finally shutting the hell up?


Unfortunately, <snip> and the others will still be around.


I want other writers.


Don't hold your breath. Two consecutive Treks with 90+ ratings from legitimate critcs? The franchise has never had that before. The franchise has never even had two good ones in a row before.

CBS/Paramount are ecstatic. Whining is, once again, futile.


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I want other writers.


Don't hold your breath. Two consecutive Treks with 90+ ratings from legitimate critcs? The franchise has never had that before. The franchise has never even had two good ones in a row before.

CBS/Paramount are ecstatic. Whining is, once again, futile.


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We don't know what STID rating will end at yet but I agree that if it is 80-90+ then absolutely they will be coming back and deservedly so, but can another director bring the best out of a K&O&DL script?
 
Don't hold your breath. Two consecutive Treks with 90+ ratings from legitimate critcs? The franchise has never had that before. The franchise has never even had two good ones in a row before.

I'd qualify that statement by saying the franchise has never had two GREAT ones in a row before. We had 3 good ones in Wrath of Khan, Search for Spock and Voyage Home.
 
Some early reviews from Australian film critics show lots of promise:

"It's a riveting action-adventure in space, complete with interpersonal relationships. The bro-mance between Kirk and Spock is in full force here. Grown men cry. And yes, it looks like a J.J. Abrams film. There's the lens flare, and the camera tracking a crashing spaceship might as well be a bigger version of the plane from the 'Lost' pilot. Smoke billows and it all feels very real, like you could reach out and touch it."
 
Paramount's ace in the hole? What you are starting to read from MAINSTREAM critics: approval and the notion that this is a MUST SEE film for the ordinary moviegoer.

Yes, the purist fanboi over at AICN and IMDB will bitch up a storm.

JJ didn't make the movie for them. He made it for the mass audience.
 
He had to make it for mass audience because you don't spend nearly $300 million filming and distributing a movie worldwide to appeal to old school trekkies only.
 
I would like to ask again: do we hear the Klingon theme in this movie when they show the Klingons? You know, the Klingon theme that was first played in TMP.
 
I haven't seen the movie but I have seen the clip of Kirk in his little ship on Kronos and I think we can hear Giachinnos Klingon theme during the chase. So my guess is no we won't hear TMP Klingon theme.
 
:lol:

In retrospect TSFS is not a very good movie; it's interstitial. It's among the worst written of the features, but Nimoy works well with the cast.
 
I love search for Spock. The crew really do come together in that one, willing to sacrifice all for their friend. Has some great lines and a memorable villain and very memorable scenes. Its underrated!
 
If I put my critical viewing cap on, I'd say there have been two very good (TWOK, 09), three good (TVH, TUC, First Contact), four mediocre (TMP, TSFS, Generations, Insurrection) and two bad (TFF, Nemesis) Trek films--my general criteria being in comparison to similar kinds of films with similar kinds of ambitions.

However, when it comes to Trek (as it does with Bond--two franchises I came to as a kid and which provoke feelings of nostalgia), I rarely put that critical viewing cap on. I have my own hierarchy of favourites, but I have enjoyed every series and every film (a few episodes I find ridiculous, scattered across series, that I will probably never re-watch--none of the films has been as bad as the worst of the series episodes, though). I overlook all sorts of shortcomings that I would not overlook in other films outside Bond and Trek. Don't really have a rational explanation for it--it just is. So I'm sure I'll enjoy this film quite a bit too. It will certainly be the best looking of all of them.
 
First of all...first post! =P

That said, it seems there are 2 different types of complaints regarding the plot of the new movie:

A) JJ is just being lazy re-using Khan.

B) People dont like the way the Khan story is told, for varying reasons.

To the second group, you have a valid opinion which I wont argue with. However this opinion is no different than not liking the plot of the first movie. Its just a problem with the storytelling.

To the first group, I will say that perhaps the 2nd movie was too soon to use the character Khan. However I would like to make the point that the character of Khan still existed even in this alternate timeline even if he wasnt the focus of the 2nd movie. He was still floating out there in the Botany Bay, and some ship was still going to find him. Thats just a fact.

So while the 2nd movie may have been a little too soon *feeling* to use that character, the fact is that character was in this timeline and was going to be found, so this particular story is just the way it turned out. If a few more movies are made, perhaps it will feel better to place this particular story later on in the series of movies and substitute the 2nd spot for some later story. But either way, Khan was coming eventually.
 
I'm glad the spoilers have put me off seeing it? Means I've saved a chunk of money and time.

Oh, please, don't act like reading the spoilers finally tipped the scales for you. You've been way too invested in your persona here to contend that you had an open mind about the movie up until this point. You've spent too much time and energy ranting about the movie you haven't seen yet, Abrams, the writers, and the fans to turn back now.

It's been perfectly obvious how you were going to react to the movie for months now:

1) Complain endlessly and irrationally for months in threads discussing the movie you knew little about and insult anyone who is a fan of the previous film and who might enjoy this one.

2) Pick an important moment to grandstand in a thread about the movie and self-righteously announce that you aren't going to waste your money on this abomination like all the Abrams sheeple and that you were no longer going to post here.

3) Pay to go see the movie in theaters so you can know the details enough to argue about it despite promising you wouldn't go see it and that you would stay away from the discussions.

4) Never admit that you paid to see the movie, and instead proudly insist that you saw a bootleg of the film at a "friend's house" so that you can claim to argue from authority, brag about not paying, and still not feel guilty about stealing because it wasn't you, it was "a friend."

5) ???

6) Profit!!!

A Wrath of Khan blockbuster pastiche set on Earth and featuring magic blood?
Again, how is regenerative properties in Augment blood more implausible than a magical light up dildo that creates entire habitable planets out of dust and brings Spock back from the dead? The transformative properties of Augment DNA have already been established in prior canon on Enterprise. Deal with it.

How retarded do they think the audience is exactly?
You know, I would be fine with you guys having a negative opinion about the films if you just restricted it to that. But you always have to take it that one extra step and insult the intelligence of the fans who have a different opinion from you, and that's why you're so insufferable.

Plus, "retarded," really? Stay classy.

Star Trek on film is fucking dead to me now. I'll be staying out of this section and focusing on Trek literature to take my minds off this jizz-covered shit. Anti-intellectualism is dangerous and entirely uncool.
RDPtbj5.jpg


See you in a few weeks after you see the "bootleg" at your "friend's house" and predictably return to tell us how despite your total open mindedness the movie is a complete piece of shit just like you've said it would be all along. Abrams' "slimy face" will enjoy spending the money that you said you wouldn't spend on seeing the movie.
 
DalekJim said:
Anti-intellectualism is dangerous and entirely uncool.

I guess unfounded arrogance due to a hyper-inflated superiority complex is where it's really at then, huh?
 
Not only that, Variety is tracking STID to do an 85 million dollar opening. Pretty damn good for a trek film.
 
Okay, you've been warned - a lengthy and somewhat disjointed synopsis of the movie from someone at IMDB.

Five minutes before entering Pike's office, Kirk had been skipping along after Spock saying, "Yeah, we're cool. I haven't lost a single man. Pike's gonna give us the five year mission" and the meeting with Pike completely bursts his bubble. When Spock is dismissed from Pike's office and he talks to Kirk alone, he really rips into him, in a different take to the one we saw in the trailers. He's really angry, but you realise that Pike sees Kirk almost as a son and feels he can do much better. Kirk's command is ripped away, they give the Enterprise back to Pike, Spock is assigned to the USS Bradbury. Kirk leaves with his tail between his legs. Greenwood was fantastic in this scene. The movie really started here for me.
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Er, yes, it's Kirk and Spock's hands on the glass. Yes, BC is Khan. Yes, Marcus is Section 31 Black ops.

There's another fantastic scene between Pike and Kirk the bar. Kirk is completely gutted an Pike tells him he asked for him as first officer aboard the Enterprisr, because he believes in him. Apparently he really had to go to bat with Admiral Marcus for the appointment.

Back in London, we all know Khan's blood saves the dying child and he enlists the father to bomb the Starfleet Data Archive. All the captains and first officers meet at Starfleet headquarters to plan strategy. Marcus reports that it was Harrison, and ex Sect 31 black ops specialist. Kirk is looking at vids from the bombing, and in a very cool extreme Google Earth kind of thing, he zooms in on Harrison. Kirk starts to ask why Harrison would bother to bomb a Data Archive when he knows all th material is n public record and starts to question the real motive, but for once he's unsure of himself and shuts up. Marcus has to wheedle it out of him.
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Kirk realises its just a ploy to get everyone together in the one room just as Harrison shows up to blow them all to Kingdom Come. Pike is badly injured, Spock runs to help him while Kirk picks up a gun and starts firing away at Harrison's ship, then throws some sort of piece of metal on the end of a fire hose thing into the ships vent, sending it crashing down, but not before they get a look at each other. As Pike gasps his last Breath, Spock melds with him. Kirk runs over and sees Pike is dead and bursts into tears, literally sobbing uncontrollably with Spock looking on. It's a very Powerful scene. It feels like that is Kirk experiencing the loss of his father.
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They find out that Harrison has fled to Kronos, in Klingon space, "The one place we cannot go." But Kirk insists on being allowed to go after him. So they devise a plan to travel to the edge of the Neutral Zone and Marcus organises for Kirk to carry a payload of advanced torpedoes that they have been developing. They beam them all aboard Enterprise, but Scotty won't sign off on the manifest because their shielding means he can't scan them to see what's inside. Therefore he refuses to have them aboard his ship because he doesn't know what danger they present. He also has a philosophical problem with the torpedoes and challenges Kirk. He doesn't like the military op. He wants to know if they are still explorers. Kirk orders him and he refuses, saying Kirk will have to fire him. So he does. Kirk appoints Chekov as Chief engineer and tells him to go get a red shirt. We all squeal. Scotty leaves the ship
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Spock/Uhura are fighting. It's almost like a teenage spat. Spock is seriously having girl trouble. Uhura's mad at him because she thinks he doesn't feel. That he endangers his life without a thought about how it affects him. It's not unlike the accusations Kirk was hurling at Spock earlier. Calling him a traitor and a robot. She's pretty snitty and they have a bit of an argument on the way to Kronos with Kirk reluctantly in the middle. Then Spock suddenly reveals that he does feel. He recounts feeling Pike's death - the pain, the fear, the loneliness. He says he felt a similar thing at the death of Vulcan. He never wants to have to feel like that again. We see Kirk and Uhura both rect, chagrined. They have been unfair on Spock. On a side note, Uhura seems to really like Kirk now. She worries about him a lot. There is also a lot of touching. Everyone is always caressing everyone else. Lots of closeups of hands on arms or shoulders. Fanfic, here we come.
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Sorry, just trying to say things the way they happened because it's more engaging that way. Just a fact dump is not going to be very fair to the movie.

In Engineering, Chekov discovers some weird fault or anomaly with the engines and Kirk instructs him to work on it. He leaves Sulu in command, and Sulu broadcasts to the surface that he has a whole pile of high-powered torpedoes pointing at them. Uhura goes with Kirk and Spock in the shuttle to find Harrison. She speaks Klingon, so this actually makes sense. After a StarWars-esque chase, the Klingons outnumber our galant trio but then Harrison shows up and starts wiping the floor with them all. He then walks up to Kirk and Kirk just lays into him (very neanderthal) and the blows just bounce off Harrison. Then Kirk decides he's not going to kill him, but take him into custody so he can stand trial on behalf of Admiral Pike.

I forgot to mention, a weapons specialist called Carol Wallace has joined the Enterprise to look after the torpedoes. Spock is suspicious and runs her data. Discovers Wallace is her mother's name. She's Marcus' daughter. I am getting a little confused about the scene order, but they decide to beam one of the torpedoes down to some planet to see what's inside. McCoy goes with Carol, but when the torpedo arms and catches McCoys arm in it, he screams at them to beam Carol up to save her, but she bravely stays to try and disarm it, sort of winning their trust. She yanks loose some big component, the outer casing slides open, and of course inside is a cryotube with a frozen body. Back on the ship, Harrison asks Kirk how many torpedoes they have and they tell him, they have a payload of 72. Isn't that how many cryotube turns were aboard the Botany Bay?
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Kirk asks Harrison who he is really. He replies that he was a product of genetic engineeriing from 300 years ago and says his name is Khan (audience whoops, groans, cheers). He starts to cleverly bait Kirk, saying that Marcus scanned space for their vessel then revived Khan and held his crews' lives over his head, forcing him to work for them, develop superior weaponry etc. He asks, is there nothing you wouldn't do for your crew, Captain? This gets Kirk in his Achilles heel. He obviously has separation issues and doesn't want to lose a single member of his little family. Bones takes some of Khan's blood and injects it into a dead Tribble.

Then Marcus shows up in a huge Dreadnaught-class ship. He tells Kirk that Khan is manipulating him and is surprised that Kirk didn't kill him. Kirk is suspicious of Marcus and won't hand Khan over. Says he's gonna take him back to Earth to stand trial. Marcus targets Enterprise and starts blowing them out of the sky. Kirk pleads for the lives of his crew, offers his life in their place, but Marcus just wants to destroy them. Carol jumps in so her father knows she's aboard, hoping that will stop the slaughter, but he just beams her aboard, then just as the Enterprise is about to be blown away, the Dreadnaught's weapons go offline. Scotty has smuggled himself aboard and is in control of the engineering deck. By communicator, Kirk decides to space jump aross with Khan with Scotty opening the port at his end. I the meantime Spock calls New Vulcan...
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Spock Prime appears on the view screen. Young Spock asks if, in his travels, they ever encountered a character called Khan? Spock Prime replies that Spock knows he swore he would never reveal details of their lives, but Khan was the most dangerous foe they ever faced and would kill them all without a thought. Spock asks whether they were able to defeat him and Spock Prime replies, "at great cost".
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Just as Spock is hearing of Khan's treachery on the Enterprise, Khan escapes from Kirk on the Dreadnaught. To cut a long story short... A big space batltle ensues, with Khan demanding that the cryotubes be beamed aboard the Dreadnaught, but Spock is a step ahead of him and Bones has removed the Cryotubes and Spock has armed the torpedoes, so they blow a hole in the Dreadnaught and as Khan plummets towards Earth (did I mention he had pursued them at Warp back to Earth? ) he aims the dying ship at Starfleet Academy to wipe them out. But the Enterprise is also in trouble. The Warp core is offline and the area is irradiated with no way to fix it. So begins the final scenes of TWOK, in reverse, even with most of the same dialogue. Kirk goes into the chamber / giant beer factory, with Scotty screaming after him, gets the core back on line, Spock defeats Khan then gets a frantic message from Scott that he'd better get down there.

It's a lovely death scene, really. Poor Spock/Quinto is inconsolable. There is a lot of crying in this movie. Kirk dies.
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Now you can guess what happens after that, can't you? We certainly did. And it did. :)

I'm getting pretty punchy. Might go and have a look at some of the other reviews and head to bed.

My impression was that, at first I thought all the Kirk/Spock Logic vs Feeling argument was a bit simplistic, but over the course of the movie, it played out beautifully with some great lines, and lots of emotion/tears. Similarly, the Kirk/Pike scenes are all wonderful.I think people will find the emotional component of this movie satisfying.

The effects are often brilliant, but I wasn't a fan of the 3D at all. At first it was cumbersome and distracting and after that I got used to it, but it doesn't really bring anything extra to the movie.

As for the parts of the plot that are rehashed from TOS prime universe. For a moment there, we got a bit excited that they were going to put a whole different twist on them, but it just wasn't enough of a twist, which left the end of the movie a bit predictable and flat. They perhaps should have branched into more unknown territory.

But as a movie about family, arguing and fighting but getting to know and trust and value each other, it was really lovely. It was certainly action-packed. If TWOK was a 9/10 and ST09 was an 8/10, I'd probably give this a 7, mostly for the raw emotion of the performances.

I hope that satisfies the hunger for this evening.
Okay, I admit it, I have NO willpower! I lasted two days! That means something right? I don't have a problem. I can stop whenever I want.

So...it sounds fantastic, but I have one question and it's kinda silly:
So Marcus dies by getting his head crushed, it's not too bloody is it? I'm taking my sister to see it and we both kinda have a problem with blood.
 
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