Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies: Kelvin Universe' started by Agent Richard07, Apr 18, 2013.


Grade the movie...

  1. A+

  2. A

  3. A-

  4. B+

  5. B

  6. B-

  7. C+

  8. C

  9. C-

  10. D+

  11. D

  12. D-

  13. F

  1. Amaris

    Amaris Abiding Eos Premium Member

    Dec 25, 2002
    You're still trying to frame his definition as subjective. It is Star Trek, in every objective sense of the word. Subjectively, your mileage may vary, but that doesn't change the fact that it is Star Trek.
  2. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Admiral

    Jun 30, 2004
    New Therin Park, Andor (via Australia)
    Do we count "Galaxy Quest" or not?
  3. ConRefit79

    ConRefit79 Captain Captain

    Nov 18, 2008
    :lol: I would have to say no.
  4. flemm

    flemm Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    May 8, 2009
    He's a pretty generic super-charged heartless killer, really. Cumberbatch was good, and it works fine. But there's nothing there that I would describe as terrifying.

    Adequate villainy for a movie like this is more how I would describe it. Doubtless the skull crush was intended to seem a little extreme, but... meh.

    Which isn't to say the original Khan was "better." It's hard for me to really compare because I only saw that episode decades removed from its original context.
  5. EnsignRicky

    EnsignRicky Commodore Commodore

    Jan 22, 2008
    Pre-Apocalyptic Earth
    While pounding Khan in the face, Spock should so totally have shouted: I, have had, enough, of you!!!
  6. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Admiral

    Jun 30, 2004
    New Therin Park, Andor (via Australia)
    Both of Bad Robot's movies have focused squared on the "Nature vs Nurture" conundrum. And it continues to support, if not drive, the story action. How very different is Kirk in the two timelines?

    And we have one Spock who was bonded to a Vulcan girl, played no-speaks with his father for 18(?) years, and embraced his human half in later years, versus a Spock who is in a romantic relationship with a human woman, loses his mother and his homeworld but maintains a positive relationship with his father, and embraces his human half at a much earlier age.

    How don't those scenarios provoke philosophical conversations in the grand Star Trek tradition?
  7. ConRefit79

    ConRefit79 Captain Captain

    Nov 18, 2008
    I was just ready for it to end long before then. I mean how did they go from lunar orbit to falling to earth so quickly? Not to mention from the Neutral Zone to earth in 3 minutes.
  8. Amaris

    Amaris Abiding Eos Premium Member

    Dec 25, 2002
    The movie answers these questions.
  9. Ubik

    Ubik Commodore Commodore

    May 21, 2001
    When someone says, "It doesn't feel like Star Trek," what they mean is, "It doesn't feel like GOOD Star Trek," which is a perfectly valid statement.

    I too am torn about this movie. As a fun, witty, action-adventure, it's quite a good movie. It's entertaining as hell, funny, tense, emotional, all those things you want from a space adventure spectacle.

    But since when is the Star Trek property an action property? I honestly don't get it. None of the Star Trek shows are primarily action shows, and most of the movies are not primarily action movies. Even First Contact is more of a horror/thriller than an action movie (and a slow, thoughtful one at that.)

    So why have Paramount and Abrams taken something that was really quite unique, and made it so common and mainstream? Sure, it's entertaining action, but entertaining action movie spectacles are a dime a dozen. These reboots don't feel like Star Trek, because they';re in a different genre than the franchise has been for almost 50 years. Wrath of Khan is not an action movie - the action is slow and dialogue-driven. This adrenaline rush stuff is standard Hollywood fare, but Star Trek has rarely had to rely on it before. The reason it doesn't feel like Star Trek is because now it feels like everything else. It feels less special, and more standard. Exciting and entertaining, absolutely. But standard.

    It's funny. Lately, James Bond and Batman have rejuvenated their respective franchises and regained respect and popularity by becoming more serious, more complex, and more adult. Star Trek has rejuvenated its franchise and regained respect and popularity by doing the exact opposite - becoming simpler and more juvenile. I wonder why that is.
  10. Chi'pok

    Chi'pok Lieutenant Red Shirt

    Dec 4, 2004
    Sietch Washington DC
    Ok, I have now seen the movie. I am actually still nauseated from all of the up and down camera work... glad I didn't see it in IMAX or 3-D.

    I thought it was kind of a mess. It had the makings of a great film. But...

    *The effects were outstanding (with one exception).
    *The jokes were good.
    *The shoutouts were ok (some seemed forced).
    *Enterprise looked fantastic. I'm glad we got several beauty shots.

    *NuSpock's behavior; started out pretty well; but by the last act... well, I'm not sure I buy it... I understand the desire to have him become more balanced; it just didn't really gell for me.
    *The new warp effect; bring back the TMP effect.
    *The back of the Enterprise (shuttle coming into the ship); it looks off scale; TMP Enterprise looked so much better (IMNSHO)
    *The word for word dialogue from previous Treks... big let down for me. Especially the "big scene."

    Mixed reaction:
    *The plot: ok, I can buy the remixed version of Khan (esp. since Cumberbatch really did do an outstanding job), but it was all so jumpy. We went from one action sequence to another so quickly, the audience isn't really given time to absorb what's happening. Yes, there's exposition about the villain and his "family" (I liked Khan's explanation because it gave the audience a sustained episode of Cumberbatch's voice and delivery). I certainly felt that Khan was more of a threat than Marcus and his paranoid delusions (how do these people maintain positions at Starfleet?)

    Audience reaction: fairly packed auditorium sized theater in downtown Silver Spring, Md. Some teenagers, some older people, and some people who brought toddlers (why?); they laughed at the jokes; I didn't hear any great gasps at the big reveal.

    Final grade: C-
  11. ConRefit79

    ConRefit79 Captain Captain

    Nov 18, 2008
    No it doesn't. They just thought it would be cool to have the ship fall to Earth and be saved.
  12. Lord Garth FOI

    Lord Garth FOI Commander Red Shirt

    Dec 18, 2010
    Wondering if Spock senior might swap him some magic blood find himself a wormhole to his time period and inject a certain beloved Captain with the magic juice
  13. ConRefit79

    ConRefit79 Captain Captain

    Nov 18, 2008
  14. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Admiral

    Jun 30, 2004
    New Therin Park, Andor (via Australia)
    Because not enough people were watching "Insurrection", "Voyager", "Nemesis" or "Enterprise".

    Because gadget-ridden James Bond films - and particularly the garish and ludicrous "Batman and Robin" - had got loopier and loopier, so they pulled those franchises back to serious mode to be refreshed. "Nemesis" and "Enterprise" were criticized as being too serious so they went lighter and broader when being refreshed.

    We've seen it with Star Trek before. After the seriousness of Khan's wrath and the business of resurrecting Spock, ST IV embraced comedy.
  15. Kruezerman

    Kruezerman Commodore Commodore

    Jun 3, 2012
    Meatloaf with Macaroni and Cheese
    But what defines "good?"
    TWOK was very action-y, First Contact even more so (and to be honest, kinda dumb, blind action at that). DS9 was, for a good portion, a war show. TOS had fistfights and TNG had everything above. No, Star Trek is not "pure" action, but a very large portion is. Honestly, it was never this high-brow show, never. It tried to be at times, but it failed miserably.
    Because it's popular and critically good again? Ya know, like it used to be? I don't know about you, but I want to share the awesome that is Star Trek with everyone, not keep it in a box where it will gather dust and die.
    This Trek is both, adrenaline and dialogue. Especially this one.
    Well you're dead wrong. If anything, it grew up and grew out of it's old chains.
  16. Amaris

    Amaris Abiding Eos Premium Member

    Dec 25, 2002
    Though it's still wholly subjective as a form of taste. One can say "I don't like it, it doesn't feel like good Star Trek," and that's fine, but there are people using it to say that it doesn't qualify as Star Trek, because of some nebulous idea of what they think Star Trek is supposed to represent.

    Yes, it really does. I recommend a second viewing.
  17. mattman8907

    mattman8907 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Apr 25, 2013
    do you the vengeance could be salvagable or do you think it was destroyed completely by starfleet?
  18. Brent

    Brent Admiral Admiral

    Apr 24, 2003
    I'd scrap it, I think Starfleet is now headed back into exploring, and they don't want it to be a militarized Starfleet, hence sending Kirk on a 5 year explore mission. I'd take the technology learned from that ship, and perhaps integrate it into a new series of ships, but with the goal being defense, not offense.
  19. ConRefit79

    ConRefit79 Captain Captain

    Nov 18, 2008
    If you mean about the other ship having faster warp drive it still doesn't make sense. It's Star Wars, the other side of the galaxy by now, too fast. Now going to the Neutral zone it felt like there was a break to where some time has passed. But but when they go back to earth, the moments come off as only minutes of actual time.

    Then both ships appear to be in lunar orbit. But some how the explosion pushed them from there and the ship fell to earth. You do realize it took Apollo 2 days to make the trip? This was just a shock wave then the gravity or Earth.
  20. Iamnotspock

    Iamnotspock Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Jun 11, 2008
    Bristol, England
    No, what they mean is, "It doesn't feel like the Star Trek I'm used to and I don't like it."
    Last edited: May 19, 2013