Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies: Kelvin Universe' started by Agent Richard07, Apr 18, 2013.


Grade the movie...

  1. A+

  2. A

  3. A-

  4. B+

  5. B

  6. B-

  7. C+

  8. C

  9. C-

  10. D+

  11. D

  12. D-

  13. F

  1. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Mar 8, 2001
    You know, there's this great moment - when Khan explains in detail to Spock-in-command where the Enterprise's life support systems are located, how he'll disable them and then walk over the "cold, dead corpses" of the crew to rescue his people - that's a wonderful homage to Khan's disabling of the ship in "Space Seed."

    Guess Khanberbatch had quite a bit of time to study the Enterprise tech manuals while he was at Section 31, hmmm?
  2. Kemaiku

    Kemaiku Admiral Admiral

    Dec 23, 2004
    Northern Ireland
    The Vengeance was likely under construction at the same time as the Enterprise, they're both the forerunners of the newer, shinier advanced fleet Starfleet is producing. So Khan was probably monitoring the entire construction process of the Enterprise. Worryingly he probably knew more about it than Kirk, maybe even Pike.
  3. Agent Richard07

    Agent Richard07 Admiral Admiral

    Jun 20, 2001
    - Gotta re-watch "Space Seed" before I see the movie again.

    - The Vengeance construction site looked like a Borg cube.

    - Hope you enjoyed Alice Eve in 3D, J. Allen. :p
  4. Agent Richard07

    Agent Richard07 Admiral Admiral

    Jun 20, 2001
    Oh, and Salvor, love that avatar.


    When I saw it the other day, I thought that we'd get Cumberbatch in a red uniform.
  5. flemm

    flemm Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    May 8, 2009
    My initial reaction to this movie was pretty similar to my immediate reaction to Trek '09: I love the cast and the overall look and feel of these films. But I think the story is weak and convoluted in a bad way.

    Following the first movie of this rebooted Trek, I was hoping that the writers would basically abandon the "prime universe" crossover connection and just tell a new story with this incarnation of the crew. Following this movie, I'm still hoping they eventually will.

    The connection with events in the "prime universe" is supposed to add a layer of resonance to the film's emotional climax, but it didn't work for me. The knowledge that Kirk was going to be immediately resurrected didn't help. I wasn't spoiled, but I might as well have been. The connection with TWoK was too heavy-handed imo. I would have preferred a more subtle nod.

    It's a gorgeous, brightly-colored film, I love this incarnation of the characters and the action sequences. Will keep hoping the next script is better, though. The movie is incredibly... fanwanky, I guess? ways that I find completely unnecessary.

    I'm a longtime Star Trek fan, but that doesn't mean I want to see Star Trek movies that make me feel like I'm browsing through a souped-up version of my DVD collection. A lot of the movie is awesome, don't get me wrong, but it's a weird mix of shiny, spectacular awesomeness and rehashed or just plain recopied/re-used ideas.
    Last edited: May 16, 2013
  6. SalvorHardin

    SalvorHardin Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Mar 6, 2008
    Star's End
    It was just something I did in photoshop, inspired by Space Seed, I'm afraid.

  7. borgmatrix

    borgmatrix Ensign Newbie

    May 14, 2013
    Regarding when Marcus lost control of Khan, I'm almost positive it was before the movie started. Khan was already running rogue. I doubt the attack on the council/meeting was part of any plan on Marcus' part.

    On Enterprise, Khan said he tried to get his people out by placing them in the torpedoes, was found out, and had to escape. His actions having been discovered, he was under the impression his people were then all killed. So he described his subsequent actions (bombing, attack on meeting) as him responding in kind for what was done to him.
  8. Agent Richard07

    Agent Richard07 Admiral Admiral

    Jun 20, 2001
    Very nice.
  9. flemm

    flemm Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    May 8, 2009
    Something like that. I thought one issue with the script was the haziness of what the threat was actually supposed to be, and what the bad guys were actually trying to accomplish.

    Marcus wants to militarize Star Fleet by starting a war with the Klingons (I guess). And the movie wants to be about avoiding that and maintaining the original goal of exploration, with the 5-year mission starting at the end of the film.

    But war with the Klingons never felt like a real possibility, and I don't think the "risk" of militarization, or why this would represent an important change, was ever really established. I guess I'm just supposed to automatically understand why this is bad/different as a longtime fan.

    Khan's motivations this time around are revenge... on Marcus. And then he will continue to do other bad stuff. Kirk initially wants revenge, but opts out of that as part of his maturation. Spock is out for revenge after the "death" of Kirk, but snaps out of it.
    Last edited: May 16, 2013
  10. Kruezerman

    Kruezerman Commodore Commodore

    Jun 3, 2012
    Meatloaf with Macaroni and Cheese
    Completely Non-spoilerific review:

    It's was fucking fabulous, shut up and go see it. It was heart wrenching, action-packed, funny, and a blast to watch.

    This isn't just a fantastic Trek film, but a fantastic film period.


    Spock's Line. All right I didn't like it, I thought it was kinda silly, but not for the reason you may think, no, it was silly because of Zach Quinto's voice. I expected a growl and a roar, not the kinda wimpy, weak voice we got.

    But no biggie, "A+."
    Oh and the Vengeance is TERRIFYING! It looks and sounds like a monster at warp!

    The cat-women were very cool looking!

    The broadside torpedo tubes were awesome!

    Pike lecturing Kirk was brilliant!

    Kirk crying over Pike's death was absolutely beautiful.

    Dr. Marcus when she tears out that circuit on the torpedo: "Oh shit!" Brilliant.

    When Carol is stolen off the ship I was afraid, it looked scary to watch her run and dematerialize!

    And Uhura speaking Klingon! That was fucking awesome!

    All in all, shut up and see this movie. You will leave with a big smile, I sure as hell did.
  11. tomalak301

    tomalak301 Admiral Premium Member

    Mar 2, 2003
    San Francisco Bay Area, CA
    I saw the movie last night, and really enjoyed it until they started ripping off Wrath of Kahn. Things might not have been said word for word, but everything was still there, especially Spock's corney "KAHHHNNN" line. In fact, during the whole Kirk death scene, I was cringing, and when they brought him back to life it almost seemed like they didn't fully think things through.

    Other than that, there was a ton to like about this film. I actually thought it had more character than the 2009 film, and the first hour and 45 minutes were just really enjoyable. Still the ending downgraded this movie to a B-. I just wish we would stop stroking WOK's cock and come up with something original. I thought that's what this alternate universe was supposed to do but instead they became lazy. Hell, I still expect to see Whales in this universe now, since it seems like the writers can't come up with original ideas.
  12. Start Wreck

    Start Wreck Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    May 4, 2005
    The first film was about Kirk becoming the captain of the Enterprise.

    The second film was about Kirk TRULY becoming the captain of the Enterprise.

    The third film will be about Kirk REALLY TRULY HONESTLY THIS TIME becoming the captain of the Enterprise, while searching for Whales and fighting off a sexy Borg Queen, while Q gives him a baby Picard to look after and teach him the true meaning of Christmas. Or something.
  13. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Mar 8, 2001
    If that's as entertaining as this one was, I'll be first in line. :p

    The point of this reboot was to be able to use what they want to use from oldTrek without dealing with the old continuity.

    That's working excellently so far.
  14. flemm

    flemm Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    May 8, 2009
    Well, I know what you mean, but I thought Kirk's maturation was a strong point. Remember how, in the first film, it felt like Kirk's rise in the ranks was a tad, errr... swift? Well, I thought they addressed that in this movie. It's unfair to complain that it happened too fast and then complain that they made it more gradual (I'm not saying you personally have done that, I just mean that this was undeniably a common remark/complaint after the first film.)

    Ultimately, I just don't think this movie needed to be burdened with all of the fanwank, or that it needed to rely so heavily on recopying existing material.

    This cast and the overall production don't need it, so I'm not sure why they are leaning so heavily on that particular crutch.
    Last edited: May 16, 2013
  15. Richard III

    Richard III Ensign Red Shirt

    Feb 4, 2013
    :rolleyes: But luckily I have you to explain it all to me, gornsky.

    Pray tell, oh Prince of Doucheness, what nuggets of wisdom you have to bequeath the rest of us mere mortals.
  16. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

    Nov 5, 2008
    King Daniel Beyond
    :lol:That's perfect!

    Thanks! I loved Scotty's run through the hangar.
  17. Matchstick

    Matchstick Cadet Newbie

    Feb 23, 2006
    Cheap. That's what I would call the last 30 minutes of this film.

    Yeah, the plot is gloriously dumb. "I will make a giant ship and lots of kewl weapons!" It's like a "G.I. Joe" story.

    But I was really with it for the first hour-and-a-half. The Khan reveal (which I had heard rumors about and just watched "Space Seed," so when I heard there were 72 of those missiles, I knew exactly what was in them) was fun, and I was like: Oh, wow, they're going to do something different with Khan and have him team up with Kirk to fight a mutual enemy. Great idea. Subvert our expectations.

    And even when it quickly becomes obvious he's going to enact his own agenda and take the ship for himself, at least the setup was there for Khan in control of this giant ship vs. an overpowered Enterprise. So what if it's "Wrath of Khan" redux? This movie don't care! Give me a kickass starship battle!

    But... we don't get it. Instead, we get a I-can't-believe-they're-going-there tensionless riff on the other iconic part of "Wrath"'s climax. (To paraphrase Sisko in "Paradise Lost," "You're stealing the WRONG PARTS, Admiral!")

    Kirk plays the role of Spock "dying" to save the ship. I couldn't take it seriously because it was so fan fictiony in its execution with all the dialogue lifts (when Spock yells "Khan," it goes pretty much into full-on parody) and because they telegraphed how they would bring Kirk back with the Tribble. Now, if they hadn't done that, I might have thought about them blowing up Vulcan last time and considered that they might make the boldest move imaginable and actually kill Kirk and carry on the movie series with Spock as captain. You want to blow minds, that's what you would do.

    But we know they're not going to do that, or crash the Enterprise with everybody on it, for that matter, so there are no stakes in the finale. And you need stakes.

    And, dear lord, did the TNG films not teach anyone that we don't want to end our movies in fistfights with the villains? It's not exciting, people.

    And was it weird to anyone else that we ended this movie with pretty much an exact copy of the final bridge scene from the last movie? "OK, we hope you enjoyed our journey to the same ending point better this time!"

    And I do kind of have a problem casting a very, very pale actor to play a role originated by Ricardo Montalbán. Is there any reason other than audience recognition not to just have "John Harrison" be a different guy awakened from Khan's ship? And perhaps make part of the tension of the film be that Harrison wants to wake up Khan? We would care about that.
  18. RAMA

    RAMA Admiral Admiral

    Dec 13, 1999
    NJ, USA
    Looking forward to see it tonight..if I can make it through my busy day!!

  19. hamudm

    hamudm Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    May 3, 2001
    Langley, B.C., Canada
    I'm honestly not trying to be a dick here and I am glad everyone seems to be enjoying the movie... But is EVERYONE ON DRUGS?!

    I went in with wide-eyed optimism, being a lifelong Trekkie an big fan of the 2009 movie, but this was just plain bad. The desperate shoehorning of Trek and TWOK specific dialogue and cliches was very obvious. The bickering between the big three to attempt replicating the TOS dynamic was forced.

    Many, MANY cringe inducing dialogue moments everywhere. Just about everything felt like a forced attempt to cash in on TWOK and DS9's legacy without a thought to storytelling, acting and logic.

  20. Locutus of Bored

    Locutus of Bored KNEEL BEFORE RODD! Moderator

    Jul 5, 2004
    Incinerating You With Gene's Vision
    Infraction for flaming. Comments to PM. Let's leave the personal remarks at the door, please.