STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

[Agent Richard07]

Oh, and Salvor, love that avatar.

When I saw it the other day, I thought that we'd get Cumberbatch in a red uniform.

 

[flemm]

My initial reaction to this movie was pretty similar to my immediate reaction to Trek '09: I love the cast and the overall look and feel of these films. But I think the story is weak and convoluted in a bad way.

Following the first movie of this rebooted Trek, I was hoping that the writers would basically abandon the "prime universe" crossover connection and just tell a new story with this incarnation of the crew. Following this movie, I'm still hoping they eventually will.

The connection with events in the "prime universe" is supposed to add a layer of resonance to the film's emotional climax, but it didn't work for me. The knowledge that Kirk was going to be immediately resurrected didn't help. I wasn't spoiled, but I might as well have been. The connection with TWoK was too heavy-handed imo. I would have preferred a more subtle nod.

It's a gorgeous, brightly-colored film, I love this incarnation of the characters and the action sequences. Will keep hoping the next script is better, though. The movie is incredibly... fanwanky, I guess? ...in ways that I find completely unnecessary.

I'm a longtime Star Trek fan, but that doesn't mean I want to see Star Trek movies that make me feel like I'm browsing through a souped-up version of my DVD collection. A lot of the movie is awesome, don't get me wrong, but it's a weird mix of shiny, spectacular awesomeness and rehashed or just plain recopied/re-used ideas.

 

[SalvorHardin]

Oh, and Salvor, love that avatar.

When I saw it the other day, I thought that we'd get Cumberbatch in a red uniform.

Thanks.
It was just something I did in photoshop, inspired by Space Seed, I'm afraid.

 

[borgmatrix]

Regarding when Marcus lost control of Khan, I'm almost positive it was before the movie started. Khan was already running rogue. I doubt the attack on the council/meeting was part of any plan on Marcus' part.

On Enterprise, Khan said he tried to get his people out by placing them in the torpedoes, was found out, and had to escape. His actions having been discovered, he was under the impression his people were then all killed. So he described his subsequent actions (bombing, attack on meeting) as him responding in kind for what was done to him.

 

[Agent Richard07]

It was just something I did in photoshop, inspired by Space Seed, I'm afraid.

Very nice.

 

[flemm]

On Enterprise, Khan said he tried to get his people out by placing them in the torpedoes, was found out, and had to escape. His actions having been found, he was under the impression his people were then all killed. So he described his subsequent actions (bombing, attack on meeting) as him responding in kind for what was done to him.

Something like that. I thought one issue with the script was the haziness of what the threat was actually supposed to be, and what the bad guys were actually trying to accomplish.

Marcus wants to militarize Star Fleet by starting a war with the Klingons (I guess). And the movie wants to be about avoiding that and maintaining the original goal of exploration, with the 5-year mission starting at the end of the film.

But war with the Klingons never felt like a real possibility, and I don't think the "risk" of militarization, or why this would represent an important change, was ever really established. I guess I'm just supposed to automatically understand why this is bad/different as a longtime fan.

Khan's motivations this time around are revenge... on Marcus. And then he will continue to do other bad stuff. Kirk initially wants revenge, but opts out of that as part of his maturation. Spock is out for revenge after the "death" of Kirk, but snaps out of it.

 

[Kruezerman]

Completely Non-spoilerific review:

It's was fucking fabulous, shut up and go see it. It was heart wrenching, action-packed, funny, and a blast to watch.

This isn't just a fantastic Trek film, but a fantastic film period.

But...

Spoiler: But...

Spock's Line. All right I didn't like it, I thought it was kinda silly, but not for the reason you may think, no, it was silly because of Zach Quinto's voice. I expected a growl and a roar, not the kinda wimpy, weak voice we got.

But no biggie, "A+."

Spoiler: Vengeance and other gushings

Oh and the Vengeance is TERRIFYING! It looks and sounds like a monster at warp!

The cat-women were very cool looking!

The broadside torpedo tubes were awesome!

Pike lecturing Kirk was brilliant!

Kirk crying over Pike's death was absolutely beautiful.

Dr. Marcus when she tears out that circuit on the torpedo: "Oh shit!" Brilliant.

When Carol is stolen off the ship I was afraid, it looked scary to watch her run and dematerialize!

And Uhura speaking Klingon! That was fucking awesome!

All in all, shut up and see this movie. You will leave with a big smile, I sure as hell did.

 

[tomalak301]

I saw the movie last night, and really enjoyed it until they started ripping off Wrath of Kahn. Things might not have been said word for word, but everything was still there, especially Spock's corney "KAHHHNNN" line. In fact, during the whole Kirk death scene, I was cringing, and when they brought him back to life it almost seemed like they didn't fully think things through.

Other than that, there was a ton to like about this film. I actually thought it had more character than the 2009 film, and the first hour and 45 minutes were just really enjoyable. Still the ending downgraded this movie to a B-. I just wish we would stop stroking WOK's cock and come up with something original. I thought that's what this alternate universe was supposed to do but instead they became lazy. Hell, I still expect to see Whales in this universe now, since it seems like the writers can't come up with original ideas.

 

[Start Wreck]

It's a great story of how Kirk TRULY becomes the captain of the Enterprise, and what he learns about himself along the way.

The first film was about Kirk becoming the captain of the Enterprise.

The second film was about Kirk TRULY becoming the captain of the Enterprise.

The third film will be about Kirk REALLY TRULY HONESTLY THIS TIME becoming the captain of the Enterprise, while searching for Whales and fighting off a sexy Borg Queen, while Q gives him a baby Picard to look after and teach him the true meaning of Christmas. Or something.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

If that's as entertaining as this one was, I'll be first in line.

The point of this reboot was to be able to use what they want to use from oldTrek without dealing with the old continuity.

That's working excellently so far.

 

[flemm]

The first film was about Kirk becoming the captain of the Enterprise.

The second film was about Kirk TRULY becoming the captain of the Enterprise.

Well, I know what you mean, but I thought Kirk's maturation was a strong point. Remember how, in the first film, it felt like Kirk's rise in the ranks was a tad, errr... swift? Well, I thought they addressed that in this movie. It's unfair to complain that it happened too fast and then complain that they made it more gradual (I'm not saying you personally have done that, I just mean that this was undeniably a common remark/complaint after the first film.)

Ultimately, I just don't think this movie needed to be burdened with all of the fanwank, or that it needed to rely so heavily on recopying existing material.

This cast and the overall production don't need it, so I'm not sure why they are leaning so heavily on that particular crutch.

 

[Richard III]

You really did quite spectacularly miss most of the movie.

But luckily I have you to explain it all to me, gornsky.

Pray tell, oh Prince of Doucheness, what nuggets of wisdom you have to bequeath the rest of us mere mortals.

 

[F. King Daniel]

I, for one, am going to love seeing Bernd's head exploding over the next month.

THE NEW SHIPS ARE NO BIGGER THAN THE OLD ONES. THAT SHOT WHERE THE VENGEANCE'S ENGINEERING HULL WAS THE SIZE OF ALCATRAZ ISLAND WAS A MISTAKE. ALL THE SETS ARE MISTAKES. ALL THE CG ARE VFX ERRORS. THAT CARGO HOLD SCOTTY RAN ACROSS WAS REALLY THE SIZE OF A BROOM CLOSET.

I imagined him saying all that while going like this

[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?&v=zvRB5OzdyyM[/yt]

That's perfect!

THAT CARGO HOLD SCOTTY RAN ACROSS WAS REALLY THE SIZE OF A BROOM CLOSET.

Yeah

http://www.cinemablend.com/new/Simo...uch-Star-Trek-Darkness-He-Threw-Up-37571.html

Well, you mentioned the bay of the Vengeance, where you’ve got the challenge of running across this place that really does feel like it’s the inside of an airplane hangar. When you go in there, what’s your reaction when you see the space you’re gonna have to jog across so many times?

Pegg
Yeah, it was immense. It’s always very important to J.J. that we are surrounded by physicality, that we’re never really relying on too much green screen. Certainly from my experience in the film, there was very little green screen work done. We always had some kind of physical prop around us and we were always in touch with some solid object, you know, and that set that was down at hangar in West LA, which is essentially a gigantic warehouse that people use if a sound studio is not big enough. That was all there and when it was lit up, when the kind of emergency lights were flashing. It was insane. It was 100 meters long, it was like half a mile. It was ridiculous. I ran it three times, sprinted it as fast as I possibly could, and it was extraordinarily fun.
Q
Fun and not completely exhausting?

Pegg
Oh, I threw up after the third one because I’d only just had my dinner. We were doing a night shoot and I kind of...

J.J. has this thing where he makes you want to do your very best all of the time. He never demands it of you. He never kind of like plays any game in asking for it. He never even physically asks you to do it, but you always want to do your best for J.J., because it’s J,J,. So, I ran faster than I’ve run since I was a kid and broke the land speed record. All of the crew applauded and I felt really good about myself, because, you know, I’m the oldest of the crew members and then J.J. said, “That was great, Simon. Would you do it again,” and I was like, “Yeah, yeah, just give me one minute.” Then I kind of got my breath back and I did it again and then I did it again and then I had excuse myself and go throw up.

Thanks! I loved Scotty's run through the hangar.

 

[Matchstick]

Cheap. That's what I would call the last 30 minutes of this film.

Yeah, the plot is gloriously dumb. "I will make a giant ship and lots of kewl weapons!" It's like a "G.I. Joe" story.

But I was really with it for the first hour-and-a-half. The Khan reveal (which I had heard rumors about and just watched "Space Seed," so when I heard there were 72 of those missiles, I knew exactly what was in them) was fun, and I was like: Oh, wow, they're going to do something different with Khan and have him team up with Kirk to fight a mutual enemy. Great idea. Subvert our expectations.

And even when it quickly becomes obvious he's going to enact his own agenda and take the ship for himself, at least the setup was there for Khan in control of this giant ship vs. an overpowered Enterprise. So what if it's "Wrath of Khan" redux? This movie don't care! Give me a kickass starship battle!

But... we don't get it. Instead, we get a I-can't-believe-they're-going-there tensionless riff on the other iconic part of "Wrath"'s climax. (To paraphrase Sisko in "Paradise Lost," "You're stealing the WRONG PARTS, Admiral!")

Kirk plays the role of Spock "dying" to save the ship. I couldn't take it seriously because it was so fan fictiony in its execution with all the dialogue lifts (when Spock yells "Khan," it goes pretty much into full-on parody) and because they telegraphed how they would bring Kirk back with the Tribble. Now, if they hadn't done that, I might have thought about them blowing up Vulcan last time and considered that they might make the boldest move imaginable and actually kill Kirk and carry on the movie series with Spock as captain. You want to blow minds, that's what you would do.

But we know they're not going to do that, or crash the Enterprise with everybody on it, for that matter, so there are no stakes in the finale. And you need stakes.

And, dear lord, did the TNG films not teach anyone that we don't want to end our movies in fistfights with the villains? It's not exciting, people.

And was it weird to anyone else that we ended this movie with pretty much an exact copy of the final bridge scene from the last movie? "OK, we hope you enjoyed our journey to the same ending point better this time!"

And I do kind of have a problem casting a very, very pale actor to play a role originated by Ricardo Montalbán. Is there any reason other than audience recognition not to just have "John Harrison" be a different guy awakened from Khan's ship? And perhaps make part of the tension of the film be that Harrison wants to wake up Khan? We would care about that.

 

[RAMA]

Looking forward to see it tonight..if I can make it through my busy day!!

RAMA

 

[hamudm]

I'm honestly not trying to be a dick here and I am glad everyone seems to be enjoying the movie... But is EVERYONE ON DRUGS?!

I went in with wide-eyed optimism, being a lifelong Trekkie an big fan of the 2009 movie, but this was just plain bad. The desperate shoehorning of Trek and TWOK specific dialogue and cliches was very obvious. The bickering between the big three to attempt replicating the TOS dynamic was forced.

Many, MANY cringe inducing dialogue moments everywhere. Just about everything felt like a forced attempt to cash in on TWOK and DS9's legacy without a thought to storytelling, acting and logic.

1.5/5

 

[Locutus of Bored]

You really did quite spectacularly miss most of the movie.

But luckily I have you to explain it all to me, gornsky.

Pray tell, oh Prince of Doucheness, what nuggets of wisdom you have to bequeath the rest of us mere mortals.

Infraction for flaming. Comments to PM. Let's leave the personal remarks at the door, please.

 

[hamudm]

But... we don't get it. Instead, we get a I-can't-believe-they're-going-there tensionless riff on the other iconic part of "Wrath"'s climax. (To paraphrase Sisko in "Paradise Lost," "You're stealing the WRONG PARTS, Admiral!")

It's interesting you mention Paradise Lost. The story to STID had the foundations of a great Paradise Lost-esque story r.e. conspiracy within the Federation. To me, it felt more like a story like this and that the Khan angle was just shoehorned in there for the sake of having a visible villain. I swear, take Khan out of the story, make a few minor changes and we would have had a much better movie along the lines of Paradise Lost and ST: TUC.

Did anyone else get a

Spoiler: SPOILER

"moustache-twirly" villain vibe from Marcus said "Oh, you didn't think I'd let any of you live?"?

 

[flemm]

I'm honestly not trying to be a dick here and I am glad everyone seems to be enjoying the movie... But is EVERYONE ON DRUGS?!

Not right at the moment

But, while I had a good time, I wish I could be more enthusiastic than I really can. I'd like to see the same cast get better material. Keep the visuals and the action sequences, too.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

No.

ST:TUC is a mediocre movie at best, and certainly not a tenth of what this film is. That it's a favorite with so many Trek fans is one more good reason for the studio to have stopped pandering to the faithful so much and embrace the possibility of real success.