News Star Trek II: The Wrath Of Khan To Return To Theaters

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies I-X' started by AutoAdmin, Aug 2, 2017.

  1. Phoenix219

    Phoenix219 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Speaking of the interview, was Bill right about how many times they destroyed and rebuilt the sets? I've always heard that some of the TMP sets survived and were used well into the TNG era. Which movies used the same bridge sets? I know they redid it between V and VI, and IV didn't have more then a few seconds on an "E" bridge anyways. How does it all actually break down?
     
  2. RColtrane

    RColtrane Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I just hope it to have good profits so they may do the same with TMP (both theater exibitions AND a 4K release)!
     
  3. Tallguy

    Tallguy Commodore Commodore

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    The fact that there was stage floor that hadn't seen daylight since 1978 when they tore down the sets for Voyager in 2001 says otherwise. You can see Roddenberry walking around the TMP sets in 1986 on The Cage video tape.

    Oh, and one of the reasons that TWOK got made was that THEY HAD THE SETS so that they didn't have to pay for them!

    He's been telling that story since I met him in 1988. So you can't blame that one on age.
     
  4. David Brown

    David Brown Ensign Red Shirt

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    I agree with the comments in this thread that Kirstie Alley performed well as Saavik. Seeing this on the big screen made me ponder what could have been. I am convinced The Undiscovered Country would have had even more impact if the traitor had been Saavik. Best if played by Kirstie (though I do not dislike Robin Curtis). Introducing that new character and then having Spock proclaim her as his protege just seemed clunky. Had it been Saavik, I can't gauge my emotional impact in retrospect, but it definitely would have been more impactful to have a known character in on the plot rather than a new character for that movie.
     
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  5. JamesRye

    JamesRye Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Yeah, there's a great link here:
    http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Star_Trek_films#cite_note-4

    It shows the massive profit that TWOK made (882%) or a 6.96X multiplier. The article states that:

    " The profitability of Wrath of Khan is flattered, as that production made use of a substantial amount of special and visual effects assets, such as studio models, props, sets and even complete visual effects sequences produced for the previous movie, and which do not show up in its production costs. This also holds true, though to a lesser degree, for the subsequent four movies."
     
  6. Tallguy

    Tallguy Commodore Commodore

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    Well, that also holds true for The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi.

    Of course the flip side of that is that the profitability of TMP is clobbered because it got all of the money spent on Star Trek Phase II (the second TV show) rolled into it.
     
  7. mos6507

    mos6507 Commodore Commodore

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    If you mean remastering/rerendering the director's cut, then I second the motion.

    Also, Shatner was more respectful in his comments about TMP as it came up in conversation surrounding Trek II than I would have expected from a jaded Hollywood vet. Nimoy and the others were typically much more critical.
     
  8. DarthPipes

    DarthPipes Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah, it definitely would have had a big impact having Saavik be the one to betray the Federation and they could have tied it in with her half-Romulan lineage (I still don't know why they cut that out). I'm glad Saavik didn't turn out to be a traitor but I do not dispute for a second that would have made a big impact on the story (I did think Kim Catrell was good in ST6 though).

    Although not as impactful as a Saavik reveal would have been, I remember being surprised that Cartwright was involved in the conspiracy and bringing Brock Peters back from ST4 was a good move in that regard.
     
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  9. Ssosmcin

    Ssosmcin Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    It was a treat to see this on the big screen again. I am not a fan of the Directors Cut, really. The theatrical version is 100% perfect and other than Doohan's sick bay work and the brief exteion of the McCoy/Spock discussion about Genesis, none of the added scenes contribute much besides running time. They were all good cuts. The Kirk/Spock climb without the dialog is pointless and should have been left off at this point. It just lays there without it.

    Other than that, I'll second what most have been saying: amazing sound (although the mix was different from the Blu Ray), sparse but beautiful scoring and amazing performances. My theater was pretty full, but quiet, which i liked. I hate shenanigans at the theater.

    Like most, I've seen this film dozens of times, but some scenes still get to me. Particularly the final scene between Kirk and David. The raw emotion as they finally connect is more moving than Spock's death. Imagine if Nimoy never returned as Spock. Where would they have gone from here? David and Saavik as new regular characters, the future seemed uncertain. As a kid I was sure Spock was coming back - Trek played the "dead main character" too often to convince me, even tho at the time, Spock was actually dead.

    Some things about the Shatner interview I noticed:

    1. Scott Mantz is annoying.
    2. Shatner is out of his tree, but he's still funny.
    3. Not only was he not on set for "remember" - wasn't that shot after principal photography was complete? I'm pretty sure I read that Nimoy and Kelley were called back to insert that later to give Spock a trapdoor.
    4. Harve Bennett got some cred, which was nice. He always seems to be the forgotten child of Trek even though he saved it.

    Now that I've seen it on the huge screen again, I also realized something that never really clicked before. As much as Nimoy was thrilled with the film and it was like doing the TV series and he felt Spock was well served...Spock is pretty incidental to the story. This is KIRK'S film. Everything revolves around him and even Spock's death serves to give Kirk that last push toward his own rebirth. Spock gives advice, talks about logic, saves the ship and....that's about it. Take away his sacrifice, say Scotty or a cadet got the mains back on line, and Spock has no purpose in the film. He's just there. He actually shows more growth in TMP.

    I'm not complaining, Kirk was always my favorite character and I can watch Shatner do anything for hours - especially 80's Shatner. He's got so much screen presence. It's truly a shame he and Montalban didn't have scenes together.

    Anywho, I would love to see the whole classic cast series of films in the theater again. What a rush to see these in their native habitat.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2017
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  10. Tallguy

    Tallguy Commodore Commodore

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    Spot on. Meyer takes almost the same structure in TUC only he gives Spock things to do back on the Enterprise. Spock and Kirk have parallel stories in that TUC and TMP (as they did in many episodes of TOS). The much derided TFF has a more Kirk/Spock/McCoy driven story.

    Something I realized watching this and watching TMP on 9/8: These are the only two films that give Sulu and Uhura nothing to do. Chekov has moments in TMP and obviously TWOK and Scotty slightly less so. (Especially when you start cutting his scenes in TWOK. Is he even in the last scene of the film?) It wasn't until TSFS that they started writing a more ensemble crew (which it never really was even in TOS).

    "I hate shenanigans at the theater." I'm stealing that.
     
  11. mos6507

    mos6507 Commodore Commodore

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    But then after that we get an entire film devoted to resurrecting him. Even though Nimoy himself only appears at the end of that one, seems like it more than makes up for Spock assuming a secondary role in Khan.

    That aside, I would say that Spock's more relaxed demeanor and sentimentality during his death speech at the end reflects TMP. He was much more open and frank about his friendship than he typically was in TOS. He was the bridge that connects TMP to Khan whereas Kirk appears to be going through the exact same sort of mid-life crisis he already had in TMP.
     
  12. Tribble puncher

    Tribble puncher Captain Captain

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    Yes! I was wondering if I was the only one who felt this way, part of me wondered if the tone of it was "scripted" to pad Shatner's ego a bit, but I really think it's just Mantz has that whole "older middle aged guy trying to act like a youthful mellinnial" thing.
     
  13. Kor

    Kor Admiral Admiral

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    I'm finally seeing it tonight.

    I've got mixed feelings on "shenanigans in the theater." On the one hand, I don't want to be distracted by some bozo making stupid comments to the characters, or something like that.

    On the other hand, it's really great fun when the audience has a lot of energy and claps and cheers together at the exciting parts of the movie, and laughs at the funny parts, and sighs at the sad parts. Know what I mean?

    Kor
     
  14. alensatemybuick1

    alensatemybuick1 Commander Red Shirt

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    I've seen him on other Trek specials, and normally he does annoy me, but I did not mind his Shatner interview. I actually appreciated his correcting Shatner regarding the studio fire that happened on STIII rather than STII (and gave him a chance to grandstand with a fire hose). As soon as the Shat said that, I wanted to lean over and tell my wife the same thing, but she promised me in advance that if did lean over and start any "nerd sh*t" (her words) that she'd smack me:o. So when I saw Scott initially try without success to hide his skepticism, which Shatner picked up on, seemingly encouraging him to go for broke and say "far be it for me to correct you, but...", I quietly cheered. Too bad he didn't correct some of the other doozies that came out of Shatner's mouth (probably didn't because he might like to be invited to participate future Trek specials;)).

    I have to say, I am half tempted to go see it again tonight. But I wont. Once was enough to re-live those thrilling days of yesteryear. There is another thread on this site about how many times people watch TOS episodes; needless to say I've seen TWOK untold times in the past 35 years. But I do fondly recall seeing it that first time in 1982 (when I was 16), remember that night quite well actually, still have the promo folder / program they sold in theaters in those days. One cool thing about seeing it on the big screen again is remembering what it was like to be my younger self and go to the movies, before I graduated high school, or had a job, or any real money of my own or could even drive. It's cool to go back in time...for just a couple hours anyway.
     
  15. Pure Antiproton

    Pure Antiproton Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    Really enjoyed seeing this on the big screen for the first time in 35 years. The theater was full at 2:00pm on a Sunday!
     
  16. KirkusOveractus

    KirkusOveractus Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Going tonight to see it, and I can't wait! I have seen it on the big screen a couple times since 1982, as parts of Trek movie marathons in 1991 and 1994. Those were the original prints, so with the remastering, the clarity will probably be closer to 1982's viewing for me!

    As it's gotten closer, I remember the lead up to my family going to see it (I was 10). First seeing a TV ad with Enterprise getting hit and yelling to my parents that I saw an ad for it, upset at seeing the Enterprise getting damaged!

    One thing I feel a bit of sadness about is that the theatre I saw TMP, TWOK, TSFS, TVH and TFF is gone now. It would have been great to see the movie there, as I did 35 years ago. But this will still be amazing, seeing my heroes on the big screen again!
     
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  17. Tallguy

    Tallguy Commodore Commodore

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    Hmm. I hadn't thought about that. Yep, theaters for all six TOS films, gone.

    Looks like the theater I saw Generations at is gone. So is First Contact. Looks like the theaters for Insurrection and Nemesis are still open and all the theaters I saw Kelvin movies at.
     
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  18. Trekker4747

    Trekker4747 Boldly going... Premium Member

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    Got back from the theaters seeing this. Man, this movie just works!

    It seems to be yet another cut of the movie, it largely contains everything from the DVD/earlier anniversary cut but one exchange is removed. When Kirk and co. arrive back on the Enterprise from the Genesis cave we see them climbing through the Jefferies Tubes and Kirk says, "That young man back there is my son." Spock, "Fascinating." (Almost in a tone as if to say, "But of course he is, you slut.")

    I guess I can see why it was removed, it's overall an odd thing for Spock to say in the circumstances and maybe out of character for him depending on how you want to interpret his response and, narratively it's unneeded as it's information the audience already has.
     
  19. Isolar

    Isolar Ensign Red Shirt

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    I noticed that for the first time also!
     
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  20. Isolar

    Isolar Ensign Red Shirt

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    I jumped at the rat. The sound queue was loud!
     
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