Star Trek: Generations at 30

[Tallguy]

OK, c'mon. The point is that Berman objected to TOS aliens. (Specifically Andorian, if I remember right.) They may have snuck in the odd reference or appearance. Is there a screen shot? Sure. Absolutely factual. It doesn't refute the larger point.

Riker's dad did something with the Tholians, too.

 

[Dukhat]

OK, c'mon. The point is that Berman objected to TOS aliens. (Specifically Andorian, if I remember right.) They may have snuck in the odd reference or appearance. Is there a screen shot? Sure. Absolutely factual. It doesn't refute the larger point.

Riker's dad did something with the Tholians, too.

Actually, Roddenberry did not want Klingons or Romulans in the show, and the character of Worf was a last-minute addition.

 

[StarTrek1701]

Perhaps you didn’t read what was written. Said member stated that Andorians were never used in TNG.

As I correctly pointed out, they weren't. Only one appearance and that also was just a holodeck appearance. Not a fleshed out character.

We pointed out that he was incorrect.

I wasn't, but believe what you want.

He then proceeded to move goalposts because he apparently can’t admit when he’s wrong.

I have no problems admitting I am wrong if I actually was. I never let my ego do the talking

 

[Dukhat]

As I correctly pointed out, they weren't. Only one appearance and that also was just a holodeck appearance. Not a fleshed out character.

I wasn't, but believe what you want.

I have no problems admitting I am wrong if I actually was. I never let my ego do the talking

Except you're still wrong. 'One appearance' is an appearance, no matter what it was (actually, there's another appearance of an Andorian waiter in another episode.) And I have no interest in discussing this further.

 

[StarTrek1701]

Except you're still wrong.

No I am not.

And I have no interest in discussing this further.

Neither do I. Have a nice day.

 

[CoveTom]

As I correctly pointed out, they weren't. Only one appearance and that also was just a holodeck appearance. Not a fleshed out character.

Again, the poster said Andorians were never used in TNG. Never. Not "rarely used." Not "only used once." Not "used, but not in a fully fleshed out way." Never. One appearance, even a perfunctory one, is more than never.

 

[Phoenix219]

Are we all as literal as an android in here? JFC.

 

[Dukhat]

Are we all as literal as an android in here? JFC.

Not about that. It’s about saying something and then pretending it was not said because of an inability to admit wrongness. Do try to keep up.

 

[Phoenix219]

Not about that. It’s about saying something and then pretending it was not said because of an inability to admit wrongness. Do try to keep up.

I am quite caught up, thanks. You interpreted something literal and ignored the meaning behind it and stuck to the letter of the text to the point of obtuseness. No one is going to admit they were wrong when someone else misinterpreted the gist of what they were saying.

 

[Dukhat]

I am quite caught up, thanks. You interpreted something literal and ignored the meaning behind it and stuck to the letter of the text to the point of obtuseness. No one is going to admit they were wrong when someone else misinterpreted the gist of what they were saying.

That's that person's problem, not mine. And there was no misinterpretation, at least not on my end.

We done with this now?

 

[NCC-73515]

 

[fireproof78]

Are we all as literal as an android in here? JFC.

I tend to be, yes.

 

[Phoenix219]

That's that person's problem, not mine. And there was no misinterpretation, at least not on my end.

We done with this now?

You're misinterpreting your misinterpretation. That would be your problem, and you were the one that has continued to continue this.

 

[Dukhat]

You're misinterpreting your misinterpretation of your misinterpretation. That would be your problem, and you were the one that has continued to continue to continue this.



So, you're apparently not done talking nonsense, but I am.

 

[Tallguy]

Again, the poster said Andorians were never used in TNG. Never. Not "rarely used." Not "only used once." Not "used, but not in a fully fleshed out way." Never. One appearance, even a perfunctory one, is more than never.

Not about that. It’s about saying something and then pretending it was not said because of an inability to admit wrongness. Do try to keep up.

Good grief. Absolutely the poster was wrong that Andorians were never used in TNG. What we were talking about is what Rick Berman would allow from TOS. (Or Roddenberry for that matter.)

WIN! A mostly identifiable Andorian showed up on the holodeck for a moment. (Not very long? I haven't seen the episode in a long time an that was not the moment that stuck in my memory from that episode.)

But that was all that The Powers would bear. I believe he was on record as not only disliking TOS aliens but specifically disliking the My Favorite Martian antennae look of the Andorians.

Clearly by ENT he was either swayed or he saw the utility of moving closer to some things in TOS in a TOS prequel.

 

[Dukhat]

Good grief. Absolutely the poster was wrong that Andorians were never used in TNG. What we were talking about is what Rick Berman would allow from TOS. (Or Roddenberry for that matter.)

WIN! A mostly identifiable Andorian showed up on the holodeck for a moment. (Not very long? I haven't seen the episode in a long time an that was not the moment that stuck in my memory from that episode.)

But that was all that The Powers would bear. I believe he was on record as not only disliking TOS aliens but specifically disliking the My Favorite Martian antennae look of the Andorians.

Clearly by ENT he was either swayed or he saw the utility of moving closer to some things in TOS in a TOS prequel.

https://tng.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/screencaps/season3/3x19/captains_holiday_hd_116.jpg

https://tng.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/screencaps/season3/3x19/captains_holiday_hd_118.jpg

 

[Tallguy]

I apologize. TNG was lousy with Andorians and references to TOS. This is why DS9 felt like such a run of the mill continuation of TOS references and call backs.

 

[Dukhat]

Roll your eyes all you want. I think we're done here.

 

[Turtletrekker]

A holographic Andorian in The Child. The back of the head of an Andorian in Captain's Holiday. A reference to "Andorian Blues" in Unification part 1. A reference to a Andorian waiter who kept getting Geordi's order wrong who probably wasn't even real.

That's... not a lot. Still more than we got on DS9 or Voyager.

 

[CoveTom]

It is well known that Roddenberry started the trend of wanting to avoid too much reference to TOS. He wanted TNG to stand alone. Hence his initial resistance to having a regular Klingon character and why they attempted to develop the Ferengi as the new threat. We really didn't see any traditional TOS baddies until finally the Romulans popped up at the end of season 1. But he also wasn't an absolutist about it. McCoy appeared in the pilot. They did a direct sequel to a TOS episode. Etc.

Berman took that attitude to an extreme level. The writers have recalled how when Sarek was doing his mind meld with Picard, Berman didn't even want him to mention Spock. They had to fight to get to say the name just one time.

But as things progressed, TNG (and then the later series) turned a corner and things softened. Obviously, every single major TOS character, with the exceptions of Uhura and Chapel, ended up appearing somewhere along the way. By the time of Enterprise, all bets were off and there were numerous tie-ins to TOS.

Should Berman have been more accepting of TOS references and tie-ins? Probably. But it was probably also good for TNG to stand on its own.

None of which changes the fact that this argument started because a poster claimed that Andorians never appeared in TNG, which is wrong, because they did.