Star Trek Film Makers Association

[USS Intrepid]

May I suggest that if you have a personal issue, you please take it to PM. This is supposed to be a friendly discussion, and I'd rather like to see it continue in that fashion.

 

[Tom]

I do hope that all parties can come to a mutual understanding. Your projects exist to entertain other Star Trek fans, not compete. I to know people from both groups and it is sad to see this type of stuff go on.

 

[Linnear]

I do hope that all parties can come to a mutual understanding. Your projects exist to entertain other Star Trek fans, not compete. I to know people from both groups and it is sad to see this type of stuff go on.

Sadly, there is no mutual understanding to be had. Vic Mignogna talks shit constantly about James Cawley, Phase II, and myself. He takes it as his personal mission to bad mouth us to anyone who will listen. I have heard this from many people. Most of those people refuse to do business with Vic because of this. I don't expect him to change or "see the light".

And as I said, I am very good friends with Todd Haberkorn (Spock in STC) and Grant Imahara (Sulu) is a customer of mine. I wish them the best. I really do. But we don't need Vic's poisonous attitude towards others in a group dedicated to helping each other. And I dare say most of the Founders feel the same way because they have dealt with Vic.

I would prefer to talk about the positives and all the good people in Star Trek filming making than the one or two people we aren't doing business with.

Alec

 

[Potemkin_Prod]

First, Vic's actions have proven he is incapable of being a constructive member of the community. He has illegally withheld property that is not his and he constantly bad mouths Phase II and Axanar. And so it is highly doubtful that Vic would be interested. You want him included why? Because you approve of his actions?

Nope. I refuse to take sides in matters like that.

Second, that is your first post where you decided not to be part of the group, which, based on your posts here and previously does not surprise me. You don't seem interested in sharing or being helpful, just creating drama Which you are very good at.

Frankly, I don't think you know what you're talking about. Unless you've decided you and you alone are going to decide who's in the group rather than be an open group, then yes, you can count me out. However, if you extend an open invitation to all Star Trek Fan Film Makers, then you can count me in.

Finally, my record in a short period of time of helping other productions is pretty clear. That is what the group is about, being helpful. You clearly can't get on board with that concept.

I don't see anything you've said in this post as helpful. You've decided you're going to deny Star Trek Continues membership in your group. You've falsely claimed I trying to create drama when all I'm interested in is fairness.

I don't stifle criticism, I just call it as I see it.

You plainly told me not to post here, and now you've plainly stated you're going to start a Facebook group where you won't allow civil discourse.

 

[Potemkin_Prod]

I hear where you are coming from, but I also think that if Vic & company ever want to become part of this association, they will let it be known. None of us can really speak on their behalf.

But Alec is, and he's being absolutely ugly to Vic.

May I suggest that if you have a personal issue, you please take it to PM. This is supposed to be a friendly discussion, and I'd rather like to see it continue in that fashion.

I don't have a personal issue with anyone. I'm speaking for the folks who will not be allowed in the group due to Alec's personal biases.

I do hope that all parties can come to a mutual understanding. Your projects exist to entertain other Star Trek fans, not compete. I to know people from both groups and it is sad to see this type of stuff go on.

It is, Tom, and I've seen it going on since we decided to produce our own Star Trek fan film production. The animosity Alec has toward Vic is palpable, as exemplified by this statement:

Sadly, there is no mutual understanding to be had. Vic Mignogna talks shit constantly about James Cawley, Phase II, and myself. He takes it as his personal mission to bad mouth us to anyone who will listen. I have heard this from many people. Most of those people refuse to do business with Vic because of this. I don't expect him to change or "see the light".

And as I said, I am very good friends with Todd Haberkorn (Spock in STC) and Grant Imahara (Sulu) is a customer of mine. I wish them the best. I really do. But we don't need Vic's poisonous attitude towards others in a group dedicated to helping each other. And I dare say most of the Founders feel the same way because they have dealt with Vic.

Then let them come here and bad mouth Vic as you've done on their behalf.

I would prefer to talk about the positives and all the good people in Star Trek filming making than the one or two people we aren't doing business with.

Sorry, but your statements are incongruous.

 

[Tom]

I don't know Vic at all, I do know Chris Doohan and Mike and John from Farragut, all nice people.

 

[Maurice]

Frankly, there's already an unpleasant tone emerging here and too much posturing, so I'm going to steer clear of this and instead focus on direct relationships. Good luck.

 

[Potemkin_Prod]

I agree, Maurice. I've said all that needs to be said.

Besides, we're shooting Saturday, and I've got to start packing up the camera equipment.

 

[Barbreader]

I'm reading this to say this group will be by invitation only. If so, I invite you to look over the many Star Trek Fan Film group at STR, but I will not be giving it a Headline.

I am not objecting to "by invitation only." Entirely aside from the personal issues being discussed on this thread, there are other reasons to make it by invitation only:

1) The majority of groups that undertake making Star Trek fan films never do. They could easily take and harm other people's property, and never pay for it, never return it, and never produce anything. You might want to give one another discounts because you all offer props, sets, and know-how, but not give discounts to people who are not from within this group.

2) There is a vast variety of quality in Star Trek Fan Films. You might be surprised at just how much work went into some of the films you might think were done quickly and cheaply. I don't want to identify who I am speaking about (I've never seen the person on this BB) but I am thinking of a film I watched and I thought was thrown together over at most a few weeks and I later found out represented over three years of work. When I spoke with this person, it was clear that he was very serious, but not very knowledgeable or talented about filmmaking. (NO, I'm not talking about myself, but I COULD be, given my own level of knowledge and talent in this area).

3. It's easier to settle on rules for a limited group.

Concerning badmouthing, let's just say I've gotten plenty of PMs badmouthing people who probably don't know they are being badmouthed judging from the kindhearted comments I've gotten from those people about the badmouthers. I'm sure there are many nasty comments about Star Trek Reviewed I never hear because I always invite people to use my research and make up their own website... what they intended was for me to put in a year of full-time work to upgrade STR to the quality they want. (For those of you who are thinking ... "geeze, how'd she know I thought that?" I'm not an idiot, I know a lot of people who offer more limited listings have nicer websites. Mine is quantity, not quality, and I don't deny it. And I have no problem being the source for somebody who wants to make a better website. The more publicity for these films, the better.)

 

[Linnear]

Randy, I don't know why you have such a belligerent attitude. This is meant to be fun, and you are very good at creating drama and squeezing the fun out of fan film making.

We are on Facebook for anyone who wants to share information and be helpful to each other. That is fun. I have already become good friends with people from 4 productions because of that attitude. Internet whining and bitching just makes you look like an ass and gains you no friends.

Alec

 

[Potemkin_Prod]

Alec, I am not being belligerent. I'm pointing out that you're not being fair. It's your right to do so. You don't like Vic, and your hatred of him seems to be fueling this. You accuse me of being belligerent shows that you want to make this a personal matter, and it's not. Frankly, I don't know Vic. I don't know you. But I know what I think is fair, and I know what I think is not.

Back to finding that damned reflector...

 

[USS Intrepid]

Can we all just take a step back from our keyboards and take a breath.

No one is saying Continues are barred. As far as I'm aware, this is open to interested parties. As I've already said, I have no axe to grind, and friends on all sides.

Honestly, this drama needs to stop. And folks need to quit stoking the fires.

 

[Linnear]

Agreed Nick. The only person who said Continues was barred was Randy. I have said several times that I don't think Vic is interested in working with other people since he has done a great job of pissing every production I have worked with. (except Nick who is sparred the aggravation by the Atlantic Ocean!).

And Randy, I am being fair, You don't know shit about Vic or what he has done and so you are in no position to judge what is fair and what is not. You just don't like my opinion. The simple fact that Vic illegally withheld Phase II property is prima facie evidence that I am being fair.

Alec

 

[doubleohfive]

Would audio dramas be welcome in this collective? I've done some work for Darker Projects' Star Trek shows, and have had a story in mind for a few years that would create an opportunity for some of our fellow fan film characters to cameo throughout the history of Trek.

I'd basically resigned myself to the notion of reaching out to each of the actors we want directly, but if the infrastructure is in place to facilitate it, would we be welcome or is this strictly for video projects?

 

[doubleohfive]

Can we all just take a step back from our keyboards and take a breath.

No one is saying Continues are barred. As far as I'm aware, this is open to interested parties. As I've already said, I have no axe to grind, and friends on all sides.

Honestly, this drama needs to stop. And folks need to quit stoking the fires.

Quoted for truth and I completely agree.

 

[Linnear]

Would audio dramas be welcome in this collective? I've done some work for Darker Projects' Star Trek shows, and have had a story in mind for a few years that would create an opportunity for some of our fellow fan film characters to cameo throughout the history of Trek.

I'd basically resigned myself to the notion of reaching out to each of the actors we want directly, but if the infrastructure is in place to facilitate it, would we be welcome or is this strictly for video projects?

You know I haven't thought about this. I think we each have fundamentally different needs. The question might be WHAT do we have that you need and vice-versa. I am not sure there is any overlap.

Alec

 

[doubleohfive]

Would audio dramas be welcome in this collective? I've done some work for Darker Projects' Star Trek shows, and have had a story in mind for a few years that would create an opportunity for some of our fellow fan film characters to cameo throughout the history of Trek.

I'd basically resigned myself to the notion of reaching out to each of the actors we want directly, but if the infrastructure is in place to facilitate it, would we be welcome or is this strictly for video projects?

You know I haven't thought about this. I think we each have fundamentally different needs. The question might be WHAT do we have that you need and vice-versa. I am not sure there is any overlap.

Alec

Well, again - it's about the infrastructure of communication. I know for a fact there has been crossover before - half the cast of "The Section 31 Files" appeared at the end of Intrepid's pilot; Eric Busby and Karl Puder, staples of the Darker Projects audio productions have done numerous appearances on Hidden Frontier in both voice-over and on-screen roles.

And besides, I don't see why there needs to be such an exclusivity to this. Surely if your goal is to make production as easy as possible, you would want to be welcoming folks from any and all groups putting out new content. Darker Projects has been doing audio dramas for at least the last six years, boasting a wide range of professional and up-and-coming voice talent and actors. Surely that would have some value?

And, somewhat relatedly - who's running this "Fan Film Association" - is it by committee? Who decides, ultimately, what constitutes membership eligibility or not? I realize an audio drama isn't a film, but both endgames are basically aiming for the same result.

I guess what I'm wondering is, from the wording of your last reply here, are you saying that audio dramas would not be welcome to the association because of the limited ability of what we would have to offer the fan films, even though there are things the fan films would be able to do for us?

I'm not asking for freebies, but then again I don't understand why there's a hesitation to share. In your very first post in this thread you wrote:

The whole idea has been to share resources, including talent, sound stages, assets, marketing and more. We truly believe a rising tide raises all ships and we believe in helping each other. We all want to do anything we can to see each other successful. If you can buy into that, we would love to have you.

and....

SOME BASIC PRINCIPLES

1. We share people and personnel by introducing our team to other productions.

2. We share marketing ideas and promotion on our websites / Facebook pages.

3. We share our sets and sound stages, expecting that guest productions pay the basic expenses for the time used.

4. We share ideas, exchange information, and help however we can.

The very first item on your list is exactly what I was inquiring about. There's all this lofty language about wanting to help each other and benefit from each other's experience and resources, to introduce each other to each other, and what not ... so I'm a little unclear about if/why this would suddenly not be the case, just because we're in a different format.

 

[Barbreader]

As somebody who is increasingly becoming a fan of audio Trek, let me suggest that MANY of the fan films could benefit from better audio. The audio people get the sounds and mood from music and mixing down right more often than the film folk, who also have to handle the video, do. I actually think the films might benefit more from the audio people than vica versa.

 

[GSchnitzer]

I'm monitoring this thread very carefully. Ready to take Moderater-ly action if this looks like it's going to spin out of control.

 

[Linnear]

Well, again - it's about the infrastructure of communication. I know for a fact there has been crossover before - half the cast of "The Section 31 Files" appeared at the end of Intrepid's pilot; Eric Busby and Karl Puder, staples of the Darker Projects audio productions have done numerous appearances on Hidden Frontier in both voice-over and on-screen roles.

And besides, I don't see why there needs to be such an exclusivity to this. Surely if your goal is to make production as easy as possible, you would want to be welcoming folks from any and all groups putting out new content. Darker Projects has been doing audio dramas for at least the last six years, boasting a wide range of professional and up-and-coming voice talent and actors. Surely that would have some value?

And, somewhat relatedly - who's running this "Fan Film Association" - is it by committee? Who decides, ultimately, what constitutes membership eligibility or not? I realize an audio drama isn't a film, but both endgames are basically aiming for the same result.

I guess what I'm wondering is, from the wording of your last reply here, are you saying that audio dramas would not be welcome to the association because of the limited ability of what we would have to offer the fan films, even though there are things the fan films would be able to do for us?

I'm not asking for freebies, but then again I don't understand why there's a hesitation to share. In your very first post in this thread you wrote:

There's all this lofty language about wanting to help each other and benefit from each other's experience and resources, to introduce each other to each other, and what not ... so I'm a little unclear about if/why this would suddenly not be the case, just because we're in a different format.

Dude, CHILL THE FRAK OUT. I was asking a question, not saying no. What is with all the belligerence on this forum? Is it possible on this forum to have a discussion without one party getting all aggressive and obnoxious. And yes, I found your post obnoxious and insulting.

So CHILL OUT. I am getting a little sick of being attacked for my good work in setting up this association. And yes, I set it up and got the other players involved. And we will all make decisions together.

I asked a question, because I am unclear of how a video production can help an audio production. I asked you to enlighten me not question my motives. The whole idea is to share assets and information, so I am trying to understand what a video production can provide to an audio drama and vice a versa.

If you can answer that question without going ballistic on me and questioning my motives, I will be happy to engage you. If you continue to act otherwise I will tell you to go form the Star Trek Audio Makers Association.

Alec