Star Trek Discovery in trouble, and a de facto reboot?

[Sakonna]

My days of trying to mentally squeeze all of Trek into a cohesive whole are long past.

Continuity and consistency across shows and decades may have been fun at some point, but now it's just a straitjacket for creativity. It's like being told you can only play in the yard when there's a whole forest over the fence.

Trek is unique among media franchises in ostensibly maintaining a cohesive continuity throughout many series and movies (even if there were some contradictory details).

We are all just Worf in "Parallels." Every time we see what we think is a continuity error, what has actually happened is that the show jumped one universe over between episodes. Trill look different? One universe over. Homicidal, profit-crazed Rom now a hapless softie? One universe over. Seven's ability to raise the dead not referenced when red shirts die? We've moved over into the non-"Mortal Coil" universe. MU suddenly needs a cloaking device when we'd seen these ships decloaking previously? This MU is one universe over from the MU we saw last time.

And thus, every continuity error in all of Trek is now fixed. It's seamless!

 

[Mudd]

Looking at their video collection on YouTube, they just specialize in recycled gossip; it's not like they're reporters or anything.

I was never enthusiastic about an attempted return to oldTrek - the so-called "Prime timeline" - so to the extent that's true this would be more good news.

 

[donners22]

To cast aside Fuller when he knew what fans would want, especially those who weren't fans of JJTrek, seems foolhardy.

Nobody knows what fans would want, because fans want a lot of different things - many of them in direct contradiction to each other.

The best that could be achieved would be to appease a portion of the fanbase, but there'd still be plenty of others riled up.

I'd rather they just focus on producing a good show rather than trying to pander to a group which can never be fully appeased.

 

[Balok's Decoy]

Nobody knows what fans would want, because fans want a lot of different things - many of them in direct contradiction to each other.

The best that could be achieved would be to appease a portion of the fanbase, but there'd still be plenty of others riled up.

I'd rather they just focus on producing a good show rather than trying to pander to a group which can never be fully appeased.

Yeah "what fans want" is basically a meaningless statement because the fanbase is too broad and varied, with conflicts (as you said) even in an individual fan's wants. Appeasing a fanbase, of any kind or size, is probably the lamest and most ineffective strategy of producing a show. Or any art form, for that matter.

 

[LtChange]

Transdimentional mumbo-jambo will not only alienate current fans but will not bring many new fans. So who will watch the show? Netflix know how to make a godd show, if they are angry with what they are seeing I must say they are probably right. I'm a sucker for Star Trek and I will be angry with them if they will go with the trans-dimensional BS but I will watch it. But this is no way to handle neither old fans nor won't be a good strategy to try and build a new fan base ... I hope the rumor that announced cast is not true as I think the cast is awesome. So let's wait and see ... I will not give too much credit to this video, but it says some logical things especially a feud between Moonves and Fuller sounds plausible as was surprised how Fuller exited after saying for him this is a dream come true. So this is why I'm a little bit worried. You have to have respect for the source material, and in the hands of Fuller this could have been a dream for fans but also a jump in point for many non fans.

 

[CorporalClegg]

I've been way too busy the past few months to really pay attention (or care) what was going on behind the scenes. So this is really the first time I heard about Fuller completely leaving the show. I thought he was just stepping back from the D2D.

I actually smiled a little.

 

[Number One]

Moonves brought to mind Hervé Caen to be honest. Similar vibes... hopefully not a similar outcome.


I wouldn't mind as much a different timeline, as long as they don't actually call it prime...they don't seem to be either able OR willing to do a proper and respectful prime timeline series atm, so maybe it's better for all parties they do an alternate one. If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then baby...it's a duck! So quit running around the bush and call it what it really is.

Alot of it sounds plausible. I'm sure within March we'll get to know more on it.

 

[Ryann866]

All these meaningless, quasi definitions -- remake, reboot, soft reboot... insanity! I'm fascinated by this constant cultural need to have everything old seem new again so everyone can have their dose of nostalgia and feel warm and safe an fuzzy inside.

We need new. We need daring.

It's the same with all the "brands" now -- especially Star Wars -- it's like going to see a Beatles cover band where you know they'll play all the hits, and you'll have fun and get drunk but you won't notice that no one can really play like Paul.

I wish this Trek would have show us what no one has seen before. Want creative freedom, set it 100 years after TNG. Few canon conflicts to deal with. The designers could go to town creating an entirely new visual reality without this instant compare/contrast with what has come before that will undoubtedly pull you right out of the drama (Hey, this Sarek isn't bad, but he's not Mark Lenard... hold on, those nacelles sure do look cool, but they fit more in the VOY era than in Kirk's... wait a minute, what just happened...?"

When the first teasers for TNG appeared it felt like such a fresh new take on Trek and the anticipation was building for months (yes, yes, The Naked Now and all those birth bangs aside...). I was hoping I would feel like that with this series.

 

[Mudd]

Want creative freedom, set it 100 years after TNG. Few canon conflicts to deal with.

Want creative freedom? Stop doing franchise stuff like Star Trek altogether.

 

[KennyB]

Trek will be dead. To cast aside Fuller when he knew what fans would want.........

1) If I had a nickle for every time Trek had been declared "dead".........
2) Was Fuller cast aside or did he bow out when he realized he was over committed and couldn't deliver in the time he said he would be able to?

 

[Mudd]

Midnight's Edge just prattles on about rumors that they've picked up from better sources. Most of the time they're just talking about stuff from Hollywood Reporter or Deadline, rarely with attribution.

It's not surprising that some of that kind of thing would pan out - for example, there's nothing remarkable in the least that this guys should have been "right" about Fantastic Four...I held out hope for that thing long beyond the point of reasonableness, but the plain fact was that all of Hollywood was talking about the troubles with it. No big secret, no "scoop."

So, a good rule where their channel is concerned is that if you've already heard the same thing from multiple more reliable sources then the video's probably repeating some good info. If you're not hearing it all over the place already...well, then it was just time for Midnight's Edge to put out some kind of video.

 

[fireproof78]

Want creative freedom? Stop doing franchise stuff like Star Trek altogether.

Precisely so. Demand the same but different from a 50 year old franchise and there is going to be limits to the creativity.

1) If I had a nickle for every time Trek had been declared "dead".........
2) Was Fuller cast aside or did he bow out when he realized he was over committed and couldn't deliver in the time he said he would be able to?

From what I read, Fuller had other projects he wanted to commit to. I'm also not convinced that he knew "what the fans wanted."

 

[sojourner]

"what the fans wanted."

It's an unanswerable question.

 

[Mudd]

Precisely so. Demand the same but different from a 50 year old franchise and there is going to be limits to the creativity.

From what I read, Fuller had other projects he wanted to commit to. I'm also not convinced that he knew "what the fans wanted."

He hasn't built his career on giving people what they wanted but on creating interesting, off-beat and pretty original shows - even when they're based on existing material.

And BTW, an awful lot of the specifics being worried about lately, including the folks on the writing staff and much of the visual design, track back to Fuller's time running the show. What, specifically, have we seen or heard directly about the show that we know to have been changed after he left - anything? Anything at all?

 

[Philip Guyott]

Occasional fan here, one that was really looking forward to Discovery.
I've heard some offhand remarks here and there about things being slightly off with Discovery, and Fuller leaving under somewhat dubious circumstances, but haven't thought too much about it till now.

Because now Midnight's Edge, a Youtube channel that specializes in production trouble, posted this:

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In short, the prime timeline is out, the licensees hate the visuals, Netflix hates the progress and no one is really happy about anything. They warn that these are just rumors, and I hope that is all this is - but they did the same thing with Ghostbusters and the 2015 Fantastic Four, and time proved all of those rumors to be legit, no matter how far fetched they seemed at the time.

I can live with alternate designs (to a point) but what's this about replacing the prime timeline?
Have any of you heard anything about this?

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[Cake]

That might play quite well in foreign markets.

Have to keep in mind how the show will play in China.

There is no Netflix in China. Will the Chinese even get to see it?

 

[Paradise City]

Of course it's a bloody mess. It's all gone to the dogs.

And you wanna know why?

Forget Feller, Fuller, Filler or whatever his name is. He's yesterday's man, that guy.

They haven't me runnin' it, that's where they've gone wrong. There's your answer. That's your malfunction. There's your fatal error my friends. I'd do so much ass kicking, I 'll soon have them hurtling towards Kronos, Qronos or however you spell it. I'd set that measly crew of layabouts straight quick enough. The monkey-business would stop with me in charge I'll tell ya that for free. I'd make a hardened Klingon warrior seem like a choir boy with me callin' the shots. Ho. Ho. Ho. I'd be knocking heads together, you betchyer space farin' ass I would.

I know you are reading this CBS. Scouring the 'net in abject desperation flinging about for some answers. Well, I'm here. My PM inbox is ready and waiting for 1. an apology 2. the invitation to head the team that I *may* decide to accept.

 

[Campe]

*Sigh*

"Rumor has it..."
"Rumor says..."
"Sources say..."

Let me know when there's something to worry about.

 

[Dukhat]

Trek will be dead.

I thought Trek was dead after ENT. Guess what? It wasn't.

To cast aside Fuller when he knew what fans would want, especially those who weren't fans of JJTrek, seems foolhardy.

1. Fuller wasn't "cast aside."

2, Fuller doesn't know what the "fans" would want any more than anyone else.He only knows what he wanted, and I'm sure that while he was probably hoping that many people would also want what he wanted, he wasn't going to please everyone, because every "fan" wants something different.

Moonves worries me greatly. He was the guy behind the cancellation of Enterprise, and at that time the inside rumour was that he hated Star Trek (not just Enterprise), so the idea of him trying to meddle and not understanding the core of Trek does not surprise me at all.

Guess it's that time of the year again where I dispell the Moonves/Trek myth. Moonves doesn't hate Star Trek. He hates television shows which are expensive to produce but yet earn little reward in ratings and profit. If Star Trek was incredibly profitable, he'd love it like it was his own son.

 

[WebLurker]

Actually, no, it didn't.

Actually, yes, it did. For example:

- Romulus is now destroyed in the 2380s.

- The names of Kirk's parents (and that Kirk senior was the inspiration for his son to join Starfleet)

- The MACOs were disbanded after ENT.

- Krall and the whole backstory of the Franklin are out there and unresolved.

- Any new aliens have to exist in the prime universe as well.

Now, not all of these additions or things are bad, some are good, but the fact is that the Kelvin timeline movies are changing the original stuff (and how we view them). This is a spinoff in a parallel reality that branched off the original one, not a hard reboot, like Transformers or TMNT will do.

Precisely so. Demand the same but different from a 50 year old franchise and there is going to be limits to the creativity.

Sometimes creativity works best when limited. Also, within a setting there are limits. I mean, if the idea is to continue a specific iteration of a franchise, shouldn't there be some limits, esp. ones for internal consistency?

From what I read, Fuller had other projects he wanted to commit to. I'm also not convinced that he knew "what the fans wanted."

No one knows what the "fans" want, since any fanbase has a great deal of variety in what people want to see. (Frankly, I think people who argue for something by saying: "The fans want it" -- which is usually what they want -- are just being the most vocal, not automatically the majority.)