Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 5x09 - "Lagrange Point"

[KamenRiderBlade]

First, I kind of disagree with this. Characterization should not be one-dimensional, but real people are always going to be more multifaceted than characters, because real people have tons of character conflicts which, if put into fictional media, would needlessly muddle story and themes.

But I kind of prefer real characters who are messy, with tons of character conflicts over the 1-Dimensional Racial Stereo Types. I don't mind muddy story & themes.

More importantly though, there's a difference between having deeper characterization and just changing characterization for a momentary plot point. Think about how often in early TNG they made Worf accidentally look like a wuss, since his role was often just to get the crap kicked out of him by the antagonist of the week to show how intimidating they were. He became a joke character to a large degree, until finally they began deepening and broadening his characterization, rather than just contradicting it.

Worf was required to job to make the enemy look threatening since we're supposed to associate Klingons with being stronger than humans on average, luckily they fixed that in ST:PIC & some of the ST:TNG movies.

 

[Galaxy]

Or they’re confident that L’ak will be resurrected and want to be on his good side when that happens. They’re listening to Moll during L’ak’s temporary incapacitation because that’s what L’ak would want.

Of course, these same people had an Erigah on L’ak, so I’m not sure why the change of heart.

That is the question I had. Why was L'ak not able to push his uncle out of an airlock if even in death he is able to exert influence via a proxy.

 

[KamenRiderBlade]

The Breen are not shapeshifters.

They just have a gooey side when in cold temperatures =D

 

[mswood]

For only about the 6th time since the the start of TNG (the last season of TOS, I watched but wasn't hold enough to understand a tv schedule), I completely forgot a new episode of Trek was on last night.....

 

[Captrek]

have we seen short Breen before? Like 5'2ish short?

The proto-Breen: Carrie Fisher, Return of the Jedi.

 

[ananta]

Too tired to write much, but I really enjoyed that. A definite step up from the previous week, taut, tense and quite fun with it too. Also continued the Trek trope of characters disguising themselves in Breen helmets/suits (which, I’m convinced was a homage to Princess Leila’s disguise in Return of the Jedi). Did wonder how Burnham and Adira didn’t stand out for being waaaay shorter than the rest of the Breen. I’m extremely intrigued to find out what’s inside the Progenitor gateway.

 

[Captrek]

Breen helmets/suits (which, I’m convinced was a homage to Princess Leila’s disguise in Return of the Jedi).

Ya think?!

 

[Yistaan]

The proto-Breen: Carrie Fisher, Return of the Jedi.

ROTJ must be Trek writers' favorite movie. Let's not even get into a monarch corrupting some kid while his father watches in a throne room and flying into the center of a superweapon in the series finale of Picard.

Maybe Disco's series finale will rip off another SW movie.

Progenitor: Our technology is a pathway to many abilities some considered to be unnatural.

Moll: And I did it for you, to resurrect you.

L'ak: You're going down a path I can't follow!

Moll (upon seeing Burnham): Liar! You're with her! You brought her here to kill me!

(later)

Burnham: We must go into exile, we have failed.

(the crew flees Discovery and leaves it stranded for 1,000 years)

Saru: T'Rina and I will take the half-breen. We've always talked about adopting a baby half-breen.

Moll: Where is L'ak? Is he safe? Is he all right?

Kovich: It seems in your anger you killed him again.

Moll: NOOOOOOOO

 

[IMC Headquarters]

*current Breen appearance homage to Street Hawk.

"Math doesn't lie."
"She's dead. You and your Breen friends killed her." Ah, the power of lies...and not lies...

 

[Mr Awe]

Hope so. They’ve been awfully reticent all season about what exactly the tech is, so I’m prepared for another disappointment.

Agreed. You kind of have to expect that it'll be either underwhelming, destroyed, lost, or rehidden because there's only one episode left for dealing with its ramifications and obviously appraising the tech won't take the entire episode.

 

[evilchumlee]

Progenitor: Our technology is a pathway to many abilities some considered to be unnatural.

Oh no. Oohh nooo.

Now i'm imagining some Trek show like, 40 years from now...

"Somehow, Michael Burnham returned."

 

[Yistaan]

And if the tech is indeed somehow amazing and universe shattering, it will never be spoken of again, like Khan's resurrection blood or transporters that can make you younger.

In fact, Khan's blood should've been mentioned in regards to resurrecting L'ak.

Oh no. Oohh nooo.

Now i'm imagining some Trek show like, 40 years from now...

"Somehow, Michael Burnham returned."

Bill Shatner circa 20 years ago: And we don't need an explanation for my appearing. Just have a character say, "Somehow, Kirk has returned"

Paramount: That's the most ridiculous thing we've ever heard! We'd be the laughing stock of sci-fi. Why, even Star Wars would never do something as absurd with a line as bizarre as that!

(then Rise of Skywalker premieres in 2019...)

 

[Mr Awe]

When one grows up without parents or "Parental Guidance & Supervision", some people might not grow up properly.
We only need to look around us IRL to see some people in reality who act like sullen teenagers despite being mid 30+.
It takes proper parenting to raise people, and remember, Moll didn't have proper parents, she just grew up and got by.

Sullen, or as I've called her throughout the season, a petulant teenager. I agree that can be realistic. The problem is that there is no gravitas. You can't take her seriously as a threat or, now, leader of the Breen. By extension, the fact that the Breen take her as their leader, it's hard to take them seriously too! So, they writers need to call in a new big bad Breen for the next episode!

 

[Yistaan]

Disney got an entire movie trilogy of a petulant teenager leading a galactic threat and we have die-hard fans defending it to this day (I know I'm on the Star Wars pages when not on here).

 

[Mr Awe]

I mean, over the past two years I've been writing my first novel (a fantasy story). I've dived deep into storytelling and structure, and as a writer now, and not just a fan, plot contrivances really irk me - particularly in cases where a character acts against their established characterization.

That's fantastic! Please share with us here when its available. I'd love to read it! If you put as much thought and care into it as you do your episode analyses, it'll be great!

 

[KamenRiderBlade]

Sullen, or as I've called her throughout the season, a petulant teenager. I agree that can realistic. The problem is that there is no gravitas. You can't take her seriously as a threat or, now, leader of the Breen. By extension, the fact that the Breen take her as their leader, it's hard to take them seriously too! So, they writers need to call in a new big bad Breen for the next episode!

They did claim that the Breen are fighting for Imperial control, so having them call the other Big Bad Breen Primarch makes logical sense in the context of their world.

 

[fireproof78]

Sullen, or as I've called her throughout the season, a petulant teenager. I agree that can realistic. The problem is that there is no gravitas. You can't take her seriously as a threat or, now, leader of the Breen. By extension, the fact that the Breen take her as their leader, it's hard to take them seriously too! So, they writers need to call in a new big bad Breen for the next episode!

Boy, child rulers in history would irk you probably

 

[Yistaan]

Janet Kidder's real life age (and Osyraa's in-universe age) aside, Osyraa was also basically a petulant teenager leading the Emerald Chain.

 

[eschaton]

That's fantastic! Please share with us here when its available. I'd love to read it! If you put as much thought and care into it as you do your episode analyses, it'll be great!

No problem.I'll just share a link to the google doc. I've had a devil of a time finding beta readers who don't flake out, so if you want to, be my guest - I'd love the feedback.

There's a tiny bit of Star Trek influence in there with one of the characters, if you look hard enough. Heh.

 

[fireproof78]

Most organized crime leaders and powerful leaders have a tendency towards petulance. They just wield enormous power with it.