Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 5x09 - "Lagrange Point"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
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Exciting episode. Ends on a cliffhanger so I definitely want to see the finale now to see how it all ends.
StarMan's log, Stardate 50893.5. The moment I have dreaded for seven weeks has finally arrived. Discovery, the final season, is airing its penultimate episode. And this time, I have to watch.
I've skipped all but the first episode of this season. The recap did not cover everything I hoped it would. Still, I managed to follow along easily enough.
*Some* moments had their charm (a few scenes when in disguise as the Breen).
Rayner? I like.
Unfortunately, the bulk of the episode is classic penultimate episode territory; lots of expositional blather that I checked out of fairly quickly. Interestingly, there was not much in the way of reveals, as I have come to expect.
It wasn't particularly engaging watching them jump from one close call to the next, either. Also, the actress playing Moll didn't impress.
I haven't got the rest of the season to compare it to. I didn't hate it, but it's not in the ballpark of what qualifies as good in my book. It was as 'Discovery' as I would expect.
Just a big ol' nothingburger. I feel nothing for these characters. At the very least, watching this episode vindicated my decision to skip the season.
4 / 10
As a side: I always like to watch something entertaining / engaging with my dinner. Tonight, I didn't do that. Tonight, I watched Star Trek Discovery.
Tomorrow, episode 5 of Shogun.
I will enjoy dinner tomorrow, I think.
...
Next week, the final finale of Star Trek Discovery. As was mentioned upthread, for the sake of the show's fans, it had better be movie length to accommodate the wrap on whatever this underbaked story is and give the crew some semblance of a meaningful send-off.
I've skipped all but the first episode of this season. The recap did not cover everything I hoped it would. Still, I managed to follow along easily enough.
*Some* moments had their charm (a few scenes when in disguise as the Breen).
Rayner? I like.
Unfortunately, the bulk of the episode is classic penultimate episode territory; lots of expositional blather that I checked out of fairly quickly. Interestingly, there was not much in the way of reveals, as I have come to expect.
It wasn't particularly engaging watching them jump from one close call to the next, either. Also, the actress playing Moll didn't impress.
I haven't got the rest of the season to compare it to. I didn't hate it, but it's not in the ballpark of what qualifies as good in my book. It was as 'Discovery' as I would expect.
Just a big ol' nothingburger. I feel nothing for these characters. At the very least, watching this episode vindicated my decision to skip the season.
4 / 10
As a side: I always like to watch something entertaining / engaging with my dinner. Tonight, I didn't do that. Tonight, I watched Star Trek Discovery.
Tomorrow, episode 5 of Shogun.
I will enjoy dinner tomorrow, I think.
...
Next week, the final finale of Star Trek Discovery. As was mentioned upthread, for the sake of the show's fans, it had better be movie length to accommodate the wrap on whatever this underbaked story is and give the crew some semblance of a meaningful send-off.
I gave this episode a 10. Though I don't think anything is really a 10. I'm just going by my total enjoyment of the episode. So I felt a 10 while watching. Lol
There are a few nitpicks In there. For example.... It was weird that Michael spilled her love guts to Book during a dangerous mission. But to be fair she did acknowledge that it wasn't the best time. Lol
But just a very enjoyable episode and I can't believe I actually loved a season of Discovery. I have been very critical of a lot of things (like Klingon makeup the first season, turbo lift fun house , not enough smaller stories etc... . Even though this was more of a big bombastic episode, it's ok after more character driven episodes previously. So a very nice balance this season.
I also love that Frakes got to direct an episode of a season that is basically a follow-up to an episode of TNG (The Chase) he directed over 30 years ago. How cool is that?
One more to go. I hope it's a winner. I know there will be some rushed scenes to wrap it all up. But fingers crossed.
There are a few nitpicks In there. For example.... It was weird that Michael spilled her love guts to Book during a dangerous mission. But to be fair she did acknowledge that it wasn't the best time. Lol
But just a very enjoyable episode and I can't believe I actually loved a season of Discovery. I have been very critical of a lot of things (like Klingon makeup the first season, turbo lift fun house , not enough smaller stories etc... . Even though this was more of a big bombastic episode, it's ok after more character driven episodes previously. So a very nice balance this season.
I also love that Frakes got to direct an episode of a season that is basically a follow-up to an episode of TNG (The Chase) he directed over 30 years ago. How cool is that?
One more to go. I hope it's a winner. I know there will be some rushed scenes to wrap it all up. But fingers crossed.
Are doghouses holographic in the future? I thought for a moment that Saru would find himself occupying one.
They say there are no small roles in the acting profession. Unless you're Elias Toufexis, who finds himself reduced to infinitesimal size stored in a pattern buffer affixed to Moll's arm.
The Breen really are easily bamboozled. I couldn't stop laughing when Burnham and Book held up the unconscious guard to the face scanner. One of the oldest tricks in the Book!
My love for T'Rina only grows. Tara Rosling elevates Vulcan culture a hundredfold with her portrayal.
Moll sure was lenient with her captives. I expected instant splat instead of brig time.
They say there are no small roles in the acting profession. Unless you're Elias Toufexis, who finds himself reduced to infinitesimal size stored in a pattern buffer affixed to Moll's arm.
The Breen really are easily bamboozled. I couldn't stop laughing when Burnham and Book held up the unconscious guard to the face scanner. One of the oldest tricks in the Book!
My love for T'Rina only grows. Tara Rosling elevates Vulcan culture a hundredfold with her portrayal.
Moll sure was lenient with her captives. I expected instant splat instead of brig time.
I laughed at that scene. That is so typical of Discovery to have characters stop in the middle of a critical mission to talk about their feelings. I am glad Rayner put a stop to that on the bridge with Tilly.
After a few underwhelming episodes, this one exceeded my expectations - likely in part due to Jonathan Frakes's direction. There was still stuff here that I was mixed on, though - with one exception - that had to do with the status of the story within the greater arc, not the episode itself.
The opening scene with Saru essentially getting briefed by T'Rina and Rillak was a bit confusing to me. First, because of the strange within-universe contrivance to allow Saru to be incommunicado in an era where there's instant subspace communication pretty much everywhere (somehow, Discovery apparently reported back to Federation HQ between episodes, after all). But more than that was the comment that Primarch Ruhn had been killed by Moll. How the hell did would they know that? No one but Breen soldiers were witness to it, and the Breen are not known for open communication with the Federation. I can just about believe that maybe the Breen ship got out word that Primarch Ruhn was dead, but not that it was explicitly by Moll's hand, as that would be something that would weaken the faction's position.
I think the "twist" of the Breen getting to MacGuffin first was a great one that could have punched a big emotional punch. One of the central issues with this season is Discovery never really felt behind the ball when it came to the "amazing race" and here, finally, they seem to have lost. Unfortunately, the promotional material (trailers, episode synopses, advance photos, etc.) completely gave this away, which spoiled things.
The episode then shifts into heist mode for most of its runtime (until the big bombastic ending). I thought this stuff was legitimately great. It had the classic heist trope where the leader (in this case Michael) goes through the plan in detail, and thankfully, the plan does go awry (this is a key rule in storytelling - only explain the plan when it doesn't work). I liked that Rhys (the last of the O.G. bridge crew) was given a role on this away mission. I liked they decided to touch back on Stamets paternal feelings towards Adira. I loved seeing Rayner in command of Discovery in Michael's absence (and rebuffing Tilly's pep talk). I didn't even mind the heart-to-heart between Book and Michael - it was short, and not really overwrought.
What I didn't like, however, was the Breen were reduced to bumbling Imperial stormtroopers - more comic relief than anything resembling an impediment to Michael, Book, Adira, and Rhys. I don't think I've seen a case where an antagonist has been defanged this quickly. It also didn't help that they continue to be deferential to Moll, who remains one note - a woman in her mid 30s (or at least, an actor of that age) written like a sullen teenager. The episode seems to realize that neither Moll nor her Breen minions convey any threat at all, as it introduces the prospect of a new threat - some other Primarch, who will be intimidating for reals. I don't think every story needs a "villain" at all, but it's been hard all season to be invested in the stakes because the forces arrayed against our heroes just don't seem...all that.
Turning back for a second to the B plot aboard Federation HQ, I thought these scenes were...fine. I'm glad that we spend more time with these characters (I'm surprised Vance and Kovich aren't around as well), and that we get to see T'Rina and Saru sort of fumble about a bit as a couple again. This is the first confirmation I've seen that T'Rina is Vulcan, right? I think earlier episodes made it unclear if she was Vulcan or Romulan, though the name would suggest the former. I don't know how I feel about Saru going to meet another Breen Primarch in the finale, because it's clearly going to be a B (if not C) plot, and it's hard to see how there will be any stakes whatsoever conveyed with an antagonist given ten minutes of screen time.
Still, a good episode. It's just...not something that should have happened with the penultimate episode. Better suited for an episode 8 or even 7 of a serialized season.
The opening scene with Saru essentially getting briefed by T'Rina and Rillak was a bit confusing to me. First, because of the strange within-universe contrivance to allow Saru to be incommunicado in an era where there's instant subspace communication pretty much everywhere (somehow, Discovery apparently reported back to Federation HQ between episodes, after all). But more than that was the comment that Primarch Ruhn had been killed by Moll. How the hell did would they know that? No one but Breen soldiers were witness to it, and the Breen are not known for open communication with the Federation. I can just about believe that maybe the Breen ship got out word that Primarch Ruhn was dead, but not that it was explicitly by Moll's hand, as that would be something that would weaken the faction's position.
I think the "twist" of the Breen getting to MacGuffin first was a great one that could have punched a big emotional punch. One of the central issues with this season is Discovery never really felt behind the ball when it came to the "amazing race" and here, finally, they seem to have lost. Unfortunately, the promotional material (trailers, episode synopses, advance photos, etc.) completely gave this away, which spoiled things.
The episode then shifts into heist mode for most of its runtime (until the big bombastic ending). I thought this stuff was legitimately great. It had the classic heist trope where the leader (in this case Michael) goes through the plan in detail, and thankfully, the plan does go awry (this is a key rule in storytelling - only explain the plan when it doesn't work). I liked that Rhys (the last of the O.G. bridge crew) was given a role on this away mission. I liked they decided to touch back on Stamets paternal feelings towards Adira. I loved seeing Rayner in command of Discovery in Michael's absence (and rebuffing Tilly's pep talk). I didn't even mind the heart-to-heart between Book and Michael - it was short, and not really overwrought.
What I didn't like, however, was the Breen were reduced to bumbling Imperial stormtroopers - more comic relief than anything resembling an impediment to Michael, Book, Adira, and Rhys. I don't think I've seen a case where an antagonist has been defanged this quickly. It also didn't help that they continue to be deferential to Moll, who remains one note - a woman in her mid 30s (or at least, an actor of that age) written like a sullen teenager. The episode seems to realize that neither Moll nor her Breen minions convey any threat at all, as it introduces the prospect of a new threat - some other Primarch, who will be intimidating for reals. I don't think every story needs a "villain" at all, but it's been hard all season to be invested in the stakes because the forces arrayed against our heroes just don't seem...all that.
Turning back for a second to the B plot aboard Federation HQ, I thought these scenes were...fine. I'm glad that we spend more time with these characters (I'm surprised Vance and Kovich aren't around as well), and that we get to see T'Rina and Saru sort of fumble about a bit as a couple again. This is the first confirmation I've seen that T'Rina is Vulcan, right? I think earlier episodes made it unclear if she was Vulcan or Romulan, though the name would suggest the former. I don't know how I feel about Saru going to meet another Breen Primarch in the finale, because it's clearly going to be a B (if not C) plot, and it's hard to see how there will be any stakes whatsoever conveyed with an antagonist given ten minutes of screen time.
Still, a good episode. It's just...not something that should have happened with the penultimate episode. Better suited for an episode 8 or even 7 of a serialized season.
This sounds familiar.
A solid but not spectacular episode. The first part to a 2-parter finale syndrome. There a lot of setup here and it works it's just not compelling on its own. I'd watch this as a 2-hr movie after the season is over.
The black holes were cool, the Progenitor tech left by the scientists was cool, but it had me thinking they weren't recovering it fast enough...enter the Breen. Face-palm.
The Breen are awesome adversaries. Yes, the Primarch was one-note but give the writers credit they had him as stubborn up till the very end, only then did he briefly respond to negotiation. They were suitably aggressive and very much like their DS9 counterparts.
Like I was speculating last week, it was hard to tell what the ending meant with Moll but she must have much greater status as the wife of the Scion than the Primarch or the audience anticipated. Last week's episode subtly and successfully conveyed the soldiers leaning towards recovering L'ak rather than pure allegiance to him. Even so, I don't buy Moll as their leader. De facto Empress or not, she's never been anything but a courier. I'll guess she bails the moment she gets a chance.
The strength of the episode is the last 20 minutes, Burnham's ruse was partially discovered, the pace quickens, Rayner becomes the bad ass captain that has learned how to work with his crew, and there's a good cliffhanger.
Solid, though I'll await next week's episode for a final appraisal.
8 out of 10
I felt the reverse, a series of very good episodes followed by just a good one.
The black holes were cool, the Progenitor tech left by the scientists was cool, but it had me thinking they weren't recovering it fast enough...enter the Breen. Face-palm.
The Breen are awesome adversaries. Yes, the Primarch was one-note but give the writers credit they had him as stubborn up till the very end, only then did he briefly respond to negotiation. They were suitably aggressive and very much like their DS9 counterparts.
Like I was speculating last week, it was hard to tell what the ending meant with Moll but she must have much greater status as the wife of the Scion than the Primarch or the audience anticipated. Last week's episode subtly and successfully conveyed the soldiers leaning towards recovering L'ak rather than pure allegiance to him. Even so, I don't buy Moll as their leader. De facto Empress or not, she's never been anything but a courier. I'll guess she bails the moment she gets a chance.
The strength of the episode is the last 20 minutes, Burnham's ruse was partially discovered, the pace quickens, Rayner becomes the bad ass captain that has learned how to work with his crew, and there's a good cliffhanger.
Solid, though I'll await next week's episode for a final appraisal.
8 out of 10
I felt the reverse, a series of very good episodes followed by just a good one.
I love The Chase symmetry going on here. I wanted to see a little more time spent with the Progenitor's in some way, but maybe the tech will speak for itself.
Hope so. They’ve been awfully reticent all season about what exactly the tech is, so I’m prepared for another disappointment.
I'm guessing the Breen like to gossip within their own species, and eventually somebody will leak it to "Non-Breen" (how else do you explain La'k & Moll's relationship). Never under estimate the speed of gossip, especially in the age of the internet, imagine how fast word travels in the future.
When one grows up without parents or "Parental Guidance & Supervision", some people might not grow up properly.
We only need to look around us IRL to see some people in reality who act like sullen teenagers despite being mid 30+.
It takes proper parenting to raise people, and remember, Moll didn't have proper parents, she just grew up and got by.
Luckily, you won't find anybody sane enough to go searching for a object stuck between a binary set of primordial black holes, most people would just want to go away, very far away from them.
This is the 2nd time that Discovery has been saved by plot armor due to a bad jump.
Nearly jumping into 2x Black Holes is scary enough.
Remember them nearly jumping into a Star near the beginning of Season 1?
Yeah, I'm with Stamets and wanting maximum accuracy on the SEP (Spherical Error of Probability) when jumping out into normal space, a few thousand klicks in either direction and Discovery would've killed itself. You can thank "Plot Armor" as to why they didn't jump themselves into a deadly situation.
That's not how a chain of command works.
I don't have issue with the idea that there is a gossip chain within the Breen - I have issue with the idea that it would get to the Federation that quickly.
The Breen are depicted as still being a secretive and isolationist race in the 32nd century. So much so that no one in the Federation has seen them unmasked, and Culber can't find any data on how to treat La'k's wounds. Furthermore, word gets out to Starfleet in a literal matter of hours (since Rayner said in the previous episode it would take the Breen six hours to catch up to them, and we then hear they're "ahead of schedule" in this episode.
This is all writing with plot in mind. The episode needs to introduce a new, more intimidating primarch for the final episode. That primarch needs to know to go to the location of the artifact, so word had to get out. However, they also want Saru to be there, which means somehow, Starfleet has to know too. It's contrivance after contrivance.
I'm not saying that it's not realistic someone might end up like that, I'm saying she's a mediocre season-wide antagonist. It's nuts that she's ordering around an entire Breen dreadnaught. Not just due to who she is, but how she acts. The only way to excuse it is to have the Breen be a bunch of total morons for the sake of the plot, which is exactly how they come across in this episode.
If Arisar (the soldier who mutinied against Ruhn at the end of Labryinths with her) was shown to be actually in command, and was just deferring to her a bit around the artifact, it would have been one thing, but she's clearly shown as being an "acting primarch" here, ordering Breen soldiers directly.
Because of her monomaniacal focus on resurrecting La'k, she's also just not that intimidating. I mean, she directly told Michael and Book she was just going to imprison them and drop them off at the next planet. It almost made Discovery's response (wrecking the ship in a way that likely killed hundreds, plus Book shooting Arisar dead) seem disproportionate.
I don't have issue with it, Moll learned of who La'k was and his status, ergo targeting him over time and building a relationship with him. How would a "Outsider" even learn of such important details if it wasn't because of gossip.
Look at how fast gossip spread on modern internet, imagine how much faster it is with Subspace Internet.
StarFleet didn't understand how Klingons went from looking near human to what we've seen in the TNG era & all the variation. The fact that Bashir & others didn't understand why Klingon appearance changed so much means certain information is kept from outsiders. I wouldn't be surprised if a similar situation happened with "The Breen".
Interstellar communication + gossiping + having spying networks means information travels fast, a few hours is a long time for such critical details to travel, just look at IRL internet.
That's how most of Discovery & other shows are structured.
Some people fall into rigid hierarchical structures easily, just look at how monarchies maintained their powers over the mass population of peasants & serfdom for all those centuries, in some places, the monarchies still have power to this day.
If they value those structures of power & prestige, I wouldn't be surprised if they take the "Wife of the Scion" position seriously. Especially if it comes to "Imperial Lineage".
With Arisar backing her claim, that's why everybody else didn't shoot her, the next highest up in the chain supports her, ergo everybody else falling in line.
Well, we didn't know what she was going to do with Michael & Book until it happened, and remember the phrase "Never turn your back on a Breen". There must be good reason why that's a saying.
I think the "tech" is the Progenitors themselves, hidden away in their pocket dimension.
So like the Time Lords in Doctor Who. I could see that.
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