Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 4x02 - "Anomaly"

[Deks]

But if the ship is sentient it raises all sorts of issues. For instance what if Burnham tries to fly the ship into a dangerous situation and Zora dos a Peanut Hamster on them. It could even go full Hal and space them.
Also what if Burnham thinks the best course of action is to "blow up the damn ship" does she now have any moral right to still have destruct codes for a sentient life.
As the real Bruce Maddox knows full well sentient machines are not property of Starfleet.
The ship needs to be taken off active duty.

Small correction: its 'Peanut Hamper'... but I don't think Zora would do that. Peanut Hamper abandoing Cerritos was sort of a comic gag... and I doubt that in the live action it would have happened that way (especially because one of the first sentient exocomps DID sacrifice themselves to save the other two - although they also demonstrated that they CAN defy orders like any other organic being).
Lower Decks is canon, but even the creators of the show said certain bits are 'exaggerated' by intent for the laughs and shouldn't be taken too seriously.

What we could imagine is that Peanut Hamper decided not to sacrifice itself, which the crew accepted and then Rutherford went and volunteered. .. or he refused to let Peanut Hamper go in the first place.

Zora knows what Starfleet and UFP stand for (which would include self-sacrifice if the need arose). As such, I think she became a willing participant (or basically, that much was a given when Zora effectively transferred herself into the DOT's which went and gotten themselves needlessly blown up - seriously, where are the personal shields?)... and there's the fact the Sphere Data transferred itself onto Discovery for self-preservation in the first place technically by asserting itself and refusing to let Discovery go before it could do that (which in the end the crew allowed once they realized what was happening).

So, for all intents and purposes, Zora is pretty much a SF crewmember now... and she has to follow the captain's lead... but its also possible the situation you mentioned would arise and it will create a bit of a problem down the line.
Its also possible the Sphere data made copies of itself and uploaded it to UFP databanks at HQ in the 32nd century (with SF's permission of course - so in case a dangerous situation arose... the data would persevere and update itself periodically as Zora grows and learns).

But I agree that sentient machines are NOT property of SF... though the situation is a bit different due to Disco's unique spore drive and SF's continued inability to replicate it (which is really stretching the limits of credibility)... plus, Discovery was crucial in figuring out the Burn, so I think during those 5 months, they all reached a sort of an agreement to continue functioning as thye are.

 

[Paul755]

They have... Star Trek VI... The Undiscovered Country ring a bell?

they did. UC is the most well-known example, but they also did it on Enterprise. Yes, it has been rarely done because it’s expensive.

totally forgot about UC and the Klingons and the bit on Enterprise. But I was thinking more of one of the hero ships in the middle of a dangerous situation. I mean, fighting the Borg you never saw Picard and Riker floating in mid air while Data clutched his console, etc… Not exactly the same as Archer floating while he’s trying to take a shower.

 

[TimeIsAPredator]

Small correction: its 'Peanut Hamper'... but I don't think Zora would do that. Peanut Hamper abandoing Cerritos was sort of a comic gag... and I doubt that in the live action it would have happened that way (especially because one of the first sentient exocomps DID sacrifice themselves to save the other two - although they also demonstrated that they CAN defy orders like any other organic being).
Lower Decks is canon, but even the creators of the show said certain bits are 'exaggerated' by intent for the laughs and shouldn't be taken too seriously.

What we could imagine is that Peanut Hamper decided not to sacrifice itself, which the crew accepted and then Rutherford went and volunteered. .. or he refused to let Peanut Hamper go in the first place.

Zora knows what Starfleet and UFP stand for (which would include self-sacrifice if the need arose). As such, I think she became a willing participant (or basically, that much was a given when Zora effectively transferred herself into the DOT's which went and gotten themselves needlessly blown up - seriously, where are the personal shields?)... and there's the fact the Sphere Data transferred itself onto Discovery for self-preservation in the first place technically by asserting itself and refusing to let Discovery go before it could do that (which in the end the crew allowed once they realized what was happening).

So, for all intents and purposes, Zora is pretty much a SF crewmember now... and she has to follow the captain's lead... but its also possible the situation you mentioned would arise and it will create a bit of a problem down the line.
Its also possible the Sphere data made copies of itself and uploaded it to UFP databanks at HQ in the 32nd century (with SF's permission of course - so in case a dangerous situation arose... the data would persevere and update itself periodically as Zora grows and learns).

But I agree that sentient machines are NOT property of SF... though the situation is a bit different due to Disco's unique spore drive and SF's continued inability to replicate it (which is really stretching the limits of credibility)... plus, Discovery was crucial in figuring out the Burn, so I think during those 5 months, they all reached a sort of an agreement to continue functioning as thye are.

Most of your reasoning for why Zora will not do a "Peanut Hamper" are based on IRL facts seen from beyond the 4th wall.
I am talking about in universe it is very odd that a captain is not far more curious and concerned by such a huge development.

Separate to that what is so special about Discovery that SF cant programmable matter new versions of the entire ship. Isn't it Stamets that is special and not the hardware so they could make another ship while David Cronenberg sits down and has a chat with Zora

 

[cooleddie74]

Both Bryce and Rhys deserve more to do.

 

[Deks]

Most of your reasoning for why Zora will not do a "Peanut Hamper" are based on IRL facts seen from beyond the 4th wall.
I am talking about in universe it is very odd that a captain is not far more curious and concerned by such a huge development.

You can thank Disco writers for not covering more Zora character development and how the captain herself would react to her sentience, the overall situation, etc.

But beyond that, its possible those issues were settled during the 5 months since season 3 ended.
After all, the ending of S3 also alluded to the premise that Stamets will be pretty mad at Burnham and barely on curteous terms with her for shoving him out the airlock and preventing him to go rescue his husband and Adira... but as we saw, they apparently moved past that in the 5 months since sason 3 ended off screen.

Something similar may have happened with the Zora situation.

I was hoping Disco writers will actually correct on that 'flaw' in leaving us to guess what may have happened... but seems not.

Separate to that what is so special about Discovery that SF cant programmable matter new versions of the entire ship. Isn't it Stamets that is special and not the hardware so they could make another ship while David Cronenberg sits down and has a chat with Zora

Stamets and Disco aren't that special. The original explanation in S1 was that a 23rd century computer couldn't navigate the spore network because it was 'too slow'... hence the need for an organic navigator (Stamets was special because he injected himself with Tardigrade DNA at the time allowing him to connect to the network)... I also doubt you 'need' a spinning saucer for the spore drive to work - that was just how 23rd century acomplished things with what they knew.

The 24th century wouldn't have had an issue with that because they had artificial brains by that point and far more capable computers.

So, 32nd century technology and science would have been more than up to the task and realistically, I also raised the same issue back while Season 3 was still on (that SF could have easily reverse engineered the spore drive in the 3 weeks they upgraded Discovery itself with programmable matter and equipped all of their ships with it - heck, even replicators and transporters of the 24th century would have done that easily enough... they could have also networked all of the ships stationed at HQ to turn them all into one large supercomputer which would continuously R&D new science and technology via automation and even the spore drive - I mean, make a freaking USE out of all those ships sitting there - they could have leap frogged the Emerald chain in no time at all because automation is at least a thousand times faster than humans in reaching conclusions in real life using conventional computers alone... in Trek with the kind of tech they already had in the 23rd and 24th century? It would be a piece of cake and since uttering the words: computer, analyze every bit of information on the spore drive, contrast with existing UFP database and events which prompted ships to travel faster than intended and come up with a solution to make the spore drive function'.
A few seconds later: 'solution found...'

There are SO MANY plot holes in S3 which could have been easily be bypassed... but instead, Disco writers made the UFP appear quite frankly pathetic in the 32nd century... and the Burn shouldn't have even occurred because already in the 24th century SF encountered and researched power sources that didn't rely on dilithium and m/AM which were equally or more powerful and efficient... they just handwaived it all away by saying nothing proved 'reliable' (even though it was very much reliable for the species who used the said technologies and VOY even got multiple stuff working with some 'kinks' with limited resources in a small amount of time... SF should have been able to perfect on that in a year or two maximum since VOY returned or since they transmitted their ships logs in season 6).

But like I said, Disco writers don't want UFP having nice things and actual progress based off what came before... so they made it like nothing ever panned out.
Great stuff isn't it?

 

[fireproof78]

Dear, Discovery writers,

Please stop sucking.

Sincerely,

Random person on the Internet.

P.S. You suck.

 

[Seven of Five]

I thought it was an 8. I'm sure that anomaly was winking at us all at the end. It's Nagilum!

Booker's emotional journey after the destruction of his homeworld was definitely the highlight, especially seeing Stamets sympathizing with his pain whilst working together.

Saru seems a bit shoehorned in after last week when he was on Kamina, yet I'll allow it because it's Saru.

Tilly being an actual superior to Adira was a good moment.

I thought Burnham on the intercom talking about this all being one of the greatest threats to our galaxy was too much of the writers ramping up an artificial drama.

 

[Nerys Myk]

By which you mean the very small number of people who either refused or were unable to actually get treatment because they were stuck at the front lines of a war?

Like, I get what you're trying to do here. But you shouldn't try and make mental health some sort of mystical thing, instead of the very real physical issue that we treat the way we do in real life because in most cases our medical technology isn't really up to par with treating it any other way.

No, I don't think you do. Mental health issues have been with the franchise since day one. The pilot has a captain suffering from trauma and loss and is counseled by the ship's doctor. The second pilot has a psychiatrist on board to study crew reaction in emergency conditions. TOS its self shows crewmembers effected by trauma and mentions have psychiatrists on board, including one Dr. Noel. TNG has a health care proffesional as a main cast member. One who has treated various crewmembers and dependents for a variety things. And not just by pushing a bottle of pills at them and saying "take two of these daily and you'll be fine." Even in our own "primative" century we've recognized there is more health care, both physical and mental, than pumping people full of drugs and sending them on their way.

 

[jackoverfull]

But if the ship is sentient it raises all sorts of issues.

Indeed it does. And hopefully it will.
I guess burnham hasn’t thought hard about the situation so far and STARFLEET commands might even be mostly in the dark.

Small correction: its 'Peanut Hamper'... but I don't think Zora would do that. Peanut Hamper abandoing Cerritos was sort of a comic gag... and I doubt that in the live action it would have happened that way (especially because one of the first sentient exocomps DID sacrifice themselves to save the other two - although they also demonstrated that they CAN defy orders like any other organic being).
Lower Decks is canon, but even the creators of the show said certain bits are 'exaggerated' by intent for the laughs and shouldn't be taken too seriously

well, Zora (or at least the sphere data refused to be destroyed in season 2, it’s the whole reason they went to the future instead.

totally forgot about UC and the Klingons and the bit on Enterprise. But I was thinking more of one of the hero ships in the middle of a dangerous situation. I mean, fighting the Borg you never saw Picard and Riker floating in mid air while Data clutched his console, etc… Not exactly the same as Archer floating while he’s trying to take a shower.

which mostly seem to indicate that artificial gravity is one of the most resilient systems. It even remains operational when the rest of life support is off, usually.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

I assume the "no warp in a star system" idea is based on traffic safety, deflector limitations, and accuracy considerations, rather than an actual physical limitation.

Traffic Safety & SubSpace communication interference caused by vessels using Warp Drive makes alot more sense.

Given how popular certain planets and areas of a Star System are, everybody warping out or around the same location increases the probability of a Space-Borne collision. Humanity didn't need ATC (Air Traffic Controllers) until the first mid air collision happened.

I wouldn't be surprised if their isn't a local STC (Space Traffic Controller) monitoring all the local space within a Star System and around it by a few light years, maybe up to a Par-Sec radius to be safe? The local STC would guide everybody where to fly to prevent collisions. Especially if you have a large mix of traffic like giant StarShips and everyday civilians in Astro-Mobiles flying about the same region of space within a Star System.

One would imagine that, say, Earth's solar system or Vulcan's solar system is going to be a hub of activity with thousands of spacecraft in motion at any given time, and a Galaxy-class starship suddenly barrelling through at potentially a couple of thousand times the speed of light is at best disruptive and at worst downright dangerous (yes, space is big – but ships will congregate around planets and moons, hugely increasing the risks of collisions in those regions). One might also imagine that warping through a busy star system might also cause subspace interference on communications and the like. An otherwise uninhabited or low-population/low-technology system would have less of an issue. It'll be like a regular speed limit on congested city streets vs on a deserted open road.

Imagine if each local Star System had as much FTL Warp Drive traffic as Los Angeles has daily rush hour traffic. The traffic was going in all directions surrounding the Star System.
And somebody wanted to use SubSpace to communicate with their family on a nearby Star System.

It only takes one person zipping by at Warp Speed at the right point in space to disrupt and bend Space/Sub-Space to disrupt the signal.

And we know the communications array are usually fixed in a direction when pointing at another Star System and that those planets are moving around their local Star(s) which are all moving in space. So the literal line of sight of direct subspace radio emitters / receivers is very sensitive and prone to interference if some yahoo moves through the communication path with their Warp Drive.

Given how many Star Systems are nearby in 3D space, if you view the countless array links pointed in all sorts of directions which would create a very spikey looking SubSpace Radio emission pattern if you're to view all the potential SubSpace radio transmissions from a given Star System to all nearby or potential targets for comunications. That's alot of No-Fly zones for fear of interrupting the transmission data links.

Also – how good are navigational deflectors? 1m objects presumably present no issues, but 10m? 100m? 1km? 10km? At what point does a starship need to actively change course to avoid a collision rather than just push an object out of its way? While I'm sure that by the 24th century a starship could actively track every asteroid in a star system while it's within that star system, it becomes a question of reaction time and detection range; a starship at warp 9 would cross Neptune's orbit in less than 20 seconds.

Isn't that why they have Super Luminal Sensors & Computer systems that process at FTL speeds, I remember reading something about that in the ST:TNG technical manual.

Finally – accuracy. When Dax expresses shock that she's being ordered to take the Defiant to warp inside a star system in "By Inferno's Light" we should consider the context. The Defiant isn't just going to warp inside a star system and flying away; it's hopping from one point in a star system to another at warp. Second, it's deliberately warping to close proximity to a star. Third, it's deliberately warping to extremely close proximity to a runabout. What sort of accuracy can such a warp jump have? To within a few thousand kilometres would be extraordinary given the speeds involved, and if they got it even fractionally wrong they'd crash into the sun or collide with another ship.

Isn't that why you program the computer as to when it should warp out, let the computer do the calculations and use sensor data to figure out when to drop out of warp, and be away from the target by a factor of X distance. Instead of relying on human reflexes?

Even if you're entering a Star System at significant impulse speeds (.25c) it shouldn't take you that long of a time to cross a Star System from one end to another. Minutes at worse, and that gives you enough time to avoid any traffic collisions.

Exiting a StarSystem at FTL should be easier since you can scan for any targets getting near your flight path and plot a course to avoid them.

 

[Vale]

which mostly seem to indicate that artificial gravity is one of the most resilient systems. It even remains operational when the rest of life support is off, usually.

According to the TNG and DS9 Technical Manuals the gravity generators function like capacitors and will continue to provide gravity for a few hours after they lose power, though the output will steadily decrease during that time – which handily explains why the gravity still works even when the Enterprise is dead in space. Presumably also like capacitors they can be intentionally (or accidentally) discharged in one go, which is why we see Voyager being able to turn gravity off on specific decks, and why some things can still cause the gravity to go haywire as with Kronos One in The Undiscovered Country.

 

[TimeIsAPredator]

Dear, Discovery writers,

Please stop sucking.

Sincerely,

Random person on the Internet.

P.S. You suck.

I'm all for calling it out when people start ranting about racism/homophobia/misogyny or whatever Mary Sue crap they dream up but some criticism is valid and the criticism above your post is well thought out and honest.
Your snarky replies to any form of criticism to Discovery are really getting tedious and really adding to the bile that builds up all too often on DIS discussions

 

[fireproof78]

I'm all for calling it out when people start ranting about racism/homophobia/misogyny or whatever Mary Sue crap they dream up but some criticism is valid and the criticism above your post is well thought out and honest.
Your snarky replies to any form of criticism to Discovery are really getting tedious and really adding to the bile that builds up all too often on DIS discussions

I'm sorry you feel that way. It feels like the writers are forever burned in effigy here and they are not here to defend themselves and their state of mind is constantly called in to question. Criticism is fine; belittling the writers is tiresome.

 

[TimeIsAPredator]

I'm sorry you feel that way. It feels like the writers are forever burned in effigy here and they are not here to defend themselves and their state of mind is constantly called in to question. Criticism is fine; belittling the writers is tiresome.

It's a forum about a TV show the quality of the writers is a huge part of that. If "being here to defend themselves" is now a requirement then we need to shut down every TV/movie forum and fire every professional critic on the world

 

[fireproof78]

It's a forum about a TV show the quality of the writers is a huge part of that. If "being here to defend themselves" is now a requirement then we need to shut down every TV/movie forum and fire every professional critic on the world

You can criticize without assuming the writer's mindset.

 

[locborg]

Ok, i fell asleep during the last third of this episode. It was even worse than the last one, maybe it’s my tiredness but i don’t see that this season has any prospect of a meaningful storyline.

And ffs, why does the bridge of a 23rd century starship, modified in the 31st century still emit fire from its walls? Looks like a 90ies Universal Studio live action attraction…

 

[BigJake]

I'm all for calling it out when people start ranting about racism/homophobia/misogyny or whatever Mary Sue crap they dream up but some criticism is valid and the criticism above your post is well thought out and honest.

Honestly, a lot of "critiques" of the show's writing have become just noise at this point. It's become a cliche of DSC threads to have people show up with lengthy essays about the alternate SF setting with completely different choices, characters, assumptions and priorities that they would write if they were doing the show. "I would write a totally different setting in which Starfleet is an automated hive mind" is, like... okay, write a fanfic. Maybe that'd be interesting. But it's really not that relevant as a criticism of the show's existing writing team or their work.

I'm really glad it's gotten a lot less common to see people basically just looking for excuses to complain about Michael Burnham's existence. It would be lovely to see this paired with a lot more people recognizing the difference between "I would make different writing choices" and "the writing sucks." (And ZOMG is the term "plot hole" massively overused.)

 

[jackoverfull]

I'm really glad it's gotten a lot less common to see people basically just looking for excuses to complain about Michael Burnham's existence.

well, she DID act more sensibly in the last couple of episodes (apart from the beginning of the opener). Promoting her to captain, finally, was probably a good idea.

 

[Akiraprise]

7/10

Lots of explodium, rocks, and new this season flame throwers randomly going off in the background for several minutes as exposition is heaped upon us and teary conversations happen. Puts late series VOY to shame. I am anxiously awaiting Discovery losing it's detached nacelles to a subspace gravitational shear or something. Even my father quipped that the ship is pretty fragile this year.

I dunno... because it's labelled as Star Trek I really want to like this show, but I am okay with it just being on in the background while I play Candy Crush and that's kind of sad for me. I never cared for Burnham as the lead character. Georgiou, Lorca, Saru, Stamets, Culber, Tilly, Vance, Adira, even most of the background bridge crew are all decent characters. But the one they've invested the most time into and the one we are supposed to care for the most is the one character that falls flat for me.

 

[IMC Headquarters]

Book really needs to surrender Grudge to a shelter or loving planetside home. That poor cat's going to get spaced one day.

So the personal transporters are useless during (artificial) gravity failure? Does the crew need web shooters added as standard gear on their uniforms?

I love the Hamster Ball of Silence!