I am curious how Michael will change as a character in S4 as Captain. Will she delegate more?
Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 3x13 - "That Hope Is You, Part 2"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
- Start date
What maybe? Their actions continued to be of the "let's capture the spore drive intact" sort. The internal guns (now there's an idea!) firing at the hero ship was not a new development - it was just the continuation of the nonlethal attack that the Chain was forced to utilize to get the prize.
To panic is fine. To panic over the timing of one's very own plan is not. Picard was not waiting for an opportune moment there - the sooner, the better. Burnham wasn't waiting, either, so the idea that the warp core explosion would be vital in the escape doesn't really wash.
That is, unless the ejection already meant that the Orions would panic and for some reason drop their own shields or whatnot (even though we hear of no such development). But why should shields stop spore jumping? Nothing ever has, in the previous adventures - not planetary crust, not distance, not lethal nebulae, not the boundaries of universes. And certainly not the shield that surrounded the SF HQ!
Timo Saloniemi
Good point. Debt slaves with a family, like the scientist.
very hard to make indeed...probably hundreds of people on the viridian and anyway those guys did follow orders not to kill anybody, not something easy for psychopath killers.
a good idea for a LDS sketch!
not very clear...both might be possible. And anyway she blew up the ship shortly afterwards.
Kirk shoot a single torpedo at a ship that was actively destroying the enterprise.
Who was trying to kill him.
And the way he did it was one of the points of the movie.
who?
in a state of open war against an invading force.
If janeway has a reputation of war criminal there is a reason...
what? When?
this was before they conveniently discovered they could use book to jump.
But they could.
the old OS seems to have no problem in handling the new systems, though.
Why should magical subspace fields that somehow stop torpedoes phased energy beams and transporters, but not light, stop magical mushroom transports?
So your saying Discovery should have simply lowered shields and surrendered? That Picard should have let FakeTuvok and co have the trilithium? That Sisko should have let the Klingons capture the Cardassians in WotW? That Janeway shouldn't have fought back in Deadlock?
Maybe she will continue to mentor Tilly, as she did in the first episodes of season one, I liked that interaction very much.
If they don‘t drop their commanding ambitions completely.
The show treats killing like most shows, including Trek, treat killing.
That's just it, though - so far it's the only Trek show with this sort of indiscriminate killing. Although perhaps thanks to having the budget to show gruesome deaths, as opposed to plastic starships being enveloped by stock explosions. And even in that latter case, the TNG folks went all "No survivors, oh no!" or "they must have self-destructed, or overcharged their weapons, or something!".
This is hardly a question worth pondering, since the very episodes show that spore jumping is not stopped by shields. Not the Starfleet ones, at any rate - and Starfleet is the only party that might have an idea of how to stop jumping.
The heroes only thought they were stuck because Stamets wasn't on board. When it turned out Booker could stand in, the warp core trick became redundant, not relevant to either promotion of survival or denial of spore drive from the EC.
They should have run. As in "Your Honor, when he pointed the gun at me, I knew for a fact that he did not have the option of killing me, so I ran", as opposed to "Your Honor, he had a gun, so I used my hand grenade".
It's not as if the EC folks were winning by any standard anyway. They were surrounded by what probably was superior firepower (Vance belittled the Viridian earlier on); they were the ones in dire straits, doomed if they didn't capture the spore drive intact and use that for blackmail or a clean getaway...
Timo Saloniemi
This is hardly a question worth pondering, since the very episodes show that spore jumping is not stopped by shields. Not the Starfleet ones, at any rate - and Starfleet is the only party that might have an idea of how to stop jumping.
The heroes only thought they were stuck because Stamets wasn't on board. When it turned out Booker could stand in, the warp core trick became redundant, not relevant to either promotion of survival or denial of spore drive from the EC.
They should have run. As in "Your Honor, when he pointed the gun at me, I knew for a fact that he did not have the option of killing me, so I ran", as opposed to "Your Honor, he had a gun, so I used my hand grenade".
It's not as if the EC folks were winning by any standard anyway. They were surrounded by what probably was superior firepower (Vance belittled the Viridian earlier on); they were the ones in dire straits, doomed if they didn't capture the spore drive intact and use that for blackmail or a clean getaway...
Timo Saloniemi
Sometimes necessary?
Sometimes necessary, and sometimes not even worth commenting on. Sometimes it takes dramatic focus front and center. In most cases death is not treated as it would be in real life, just like trauma, illness and consequences.
When did Discovery spore-jump directly out of federation HQ?
They couldn't, they were trapped inside the ship.
"We're stuck inside the Veridian and they're trying to breach the hull"
(This is the group of people who had just shut off life support and suffocated most of the crew while torturing Book)
"The Veridian won't just let us go"
Burnhams plan relied on Book jumping out. She'd already discussed the spore jump with Book and Aurellio before Tilly, Detmer, and the camera, got to the bridge, he was explaining to the rest of the crew.
I'm pretty sure that's not true. To give an extreme example, when they had ship-to-ship combat in Voyager and Enterprise, they often just disabled the weapons/engines and left the ships otherwise intact.
I think it depended on the needs of the plot. You had episodes with Klingons getting shot, and security officers dying and little more than a "What do we do with the body?" or what not. And there are other times where it mandates a response.
I'd bet your life they jumped out of headquarters at least once. Might have been just after the refit.
just because the spore drive already doesn’t make any sense is no reason to make up even more senseless theories that aren’t even hinted at in the show.
no, just jump away.
For most of past Trek this is patently not true.
a few episodes back. But with consent of the federation, so it’s not 100% clear that shields stop jumping. For sure it’s not even hinted at anywhere that they would, nor that releasing a warp core in the hangar would somehow drop shields.
you keep ignoring that this conversation took place before they discovered book could navigate the drive. Blowing up both ships to prevent the capture of the spore drive is self-sacrifice, blowing up an already outmatched viridian is even worse than Kirk opening fire on an already dying Nero.
The ship did a spore jump travelling at warp all the way back in Season 1. And jumped through God knows how much solid rock into a cavern inside the Klingon homeworld.
I doubt shields are going to make a lot of difference TBH.
I doubt shields are going to make a lot of difference TBH.
The second time they jumped on a Starfleet errand. In "Die Trying", they first sailed out, perhaps to be on the safe side. In "The Sanctuary" already they threw such caution to the winds, though. The shields around the HQ were up; the ship went down through them.
This was obviously also how Osyraa intended to make good her escape. Deprived of Stamets, though, she had to try and fight her way out.
No, they weren't. Tilly just initially would have thought so, because they didn't have Stamets. But she learned better in the very next sentence. Before they blew up the warp core!
Yes. And the explanation begins with "we're stuck" (because Tilly has no idea they are inside the Viridian!) and then immediately goes to "except if we do this". The plan involving the warp core breach never is combined with a situation where they would be stuck: the breach goes hand in hand with the idea of escaping via Book.
Which is the source of the debate here: there's no rationale for doing the breach when one can do the jump, other than slaughter.
Timo Saloniemi
I think it just depends on the needs of story. TOS could be somber and serious and then have the sitcom end of the show chuckle depending on the episode.
As regards being stuck inside the Viridian - Burnham's initial plan was to eject and detonate the warp core and the explosion would somehow blow the Discovery out into space...
Then out of nowhere it turned out that Booker's empathic DNA or whatever the 'a wizard did it' style explanation was, would allow him to plug into the spore drive instead, so the plan was still to eject and detonate the warp core but to spore jump into the sunset rather than go with Burnham's original suicidal plan.
Then out of nowhere it turned out that Booker's empathic DNA or whatever the 'a wizard did it' style explanation was, would allow him to plug into the spore drive instead, so the plan was still to eject and detonate the warp core but to spore jump into the sunset rather than go with Burnham's original suicidal plan.
But that's not the timeline. There's no "Heureka!" moment between "we'll blow ourselves out" and ""we'll jump out". Both things are part of one and the same plan, already formulated in full by Burnham and Aurellio and Booker before the rest of the team entered the bridge. Burnham spells it all out in a single speech that already involves the concept of jumping out. Which makes the blowing bit extremely dubious.
Timo Saloniemi
Timo Saloniemi
