Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 3x11 - "Su'Kal"

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Discovery' started by Commander Richard, Dec 23, 2020.

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Rate the episode...

  1. 10 - Excellent!

    11.9%
  2. 9

    17.5%
  3. 8

    18.0%
  4. 7

    22.7%
  5. 6

    7.2%
  6. 5

    7.7%
  7. 4

    4.1%
  8. 3

    3.6%
  9. 2

    3.1%
  10. 1 - Terrible!

    4.1%
  1. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Cartoon Premium Member

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    Ossyra used a Trans Warp Corridor. Book mentions it. Supposedly it's a dangerous thing to do.

    Since when? The Q aren't Trelane or Apollo.
     
  2. DEWLine

    DEWLine Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    As for the idea that Saru, Burnham and company won't know what the Borg were/are by this point?
    That will have to have already been covered in their remedial "here's what you missed" retraining.
     
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  3. Locutus of Bored

    Locutus of Bored This is the Way Moderator

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    Keep it to yourself, please. Don't say stuff like this again.
     
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  4. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Admiral Admiral

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    This is possibly the most visually imaginative episode of Star Trek ever made.
     
  5. picardjean-luc

    picardjean-luc Captain Captain

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    Seems a feasible scenario with Burnham finally becomes 'Discovery' captain and officially takes over the task of rebuilding the Federation after
    dealing with Ossyra and her gang who based from the promo is apparently lying waste on Starfleet HQ
     
  6. Tim Thomason

    Tim Thomason Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Yeah, I'm not sure what's disagreeable about that opinion (maybe because I share in it partially). Tyler's a generally intriguing character. Don't get me wrong, there were a lot of missteps and missed opportunities there, but it was a very modern and very nuanced take on exploring an actual identity crisis that would only be possible on a franchise like Star Trek and only in the latest couple iterations.

    It was sad to see him left behind in the 23rd century, but ideally they'll rectify that mistake by including him in future series in the same era (SNW and/or Section 31).
     
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  7. Go-Captain

    Go-Captain Captain Captain

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    I don't like the episode, despite the few good things it has. The whole holodeck situation is pretty amusing with it changing the team's appearances, apparently on a level beyond surface deep, and the way the corrupt programs function. Somehow Burnham is actually enjoyable while trying to game Su'Kal and interact with the monster. Tilly does pretty good verbally in command but is hampered by poor plotting.

    On the minor issue side, the holodeck plot has some pacing issues and should have been wrapped up this episode.

    On the bad, they've been dragging this out for four episodes. They should have went to investigate the moment they got the coordinates. Before now it looked like Saru was just learning tough lessons on being a commander, but now it's obvious he is being setup to leave command, maybe even the show. Burnham will definitely be captain of Discovery, and make Tilly her full time first officer. The latter is not a bad thing, but Saru is one of the few good characters on the show. I also expect Culber to die depriving us one of the few fleshed out and good characters.

    The rest of the problems almost all come down to lack of setup, just as with the last minute characterization they gave Airiam, the cyborg woman, in a desperate attempt to get the audience to care about her just before killing her.

    There's no setup or follow up for why Burnham thinks the giant dilithium world is important to the Burn.
    No connection in theme, context, or plot for the Burn source. Unbelievably, Burnham being the Burn source would make more sense.
    They have a cloak, which should have been mentioned in episode 6 with the upgrade. They sure mentioned a lot of other stuff which didn't need mentioning. It would have created either an expectation or a forget it and surprise situation, and would have removed Tilly the first officer having to ask if her ship has a system. If anyone knows the ship has a major system, it has to be her.
    Apparently nothing, not even shields, stop transporters now, and no one thinks to just beam torpedoes into each others ships.
     
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  8. Borgminister

    Borgminister Admiral Moderator

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    Was not expecting another cliffhanger there, and the episode was a rather offbeat one at that. Went from bummed at no Saru makeup to impressed by Doug Jones' ability to emote so well as the story progressed. Liked Burnham's "I'm a program" improvisation, the old storyteller scene leading to that tune being hummed--is it the same one that seems to underlie the overarching plot?--, the button under the armrest thing and Tilly's interaction with the Orion baddie (better played this time), and the actor playing the holodeck raised Kelpian's turn... Son's in town with his girl friend (28 and 24 yo respectively), who wanted to watch it with me, so it was a different viewing than usual... they both are confused about the "they" issue but not turned off by the Stamets/Culber relationship. Beautifully shot and visualized, I think, but not too sure about the meat of the story, having to once again wait until the next episode to play out. Solid 8 until then.
     
  9. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Cartoon Premium Member

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    You would have hated episodic TV. You got to care about people in under and hour and no one thought it was "desperate".
     
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  10. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I thought Discovery was to be come more episodic though. How are we to care about such individuals in such short a time?
     
  11. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Admiral Admiral

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    This was a great episode by itself but a little anticlimactic in terms of a reason for the Burn.

    All the buildup and it’s because an abandoned child’s emotions cause a dilithium planet to go haywire. If it’s not more than that it’s a let down.
     
  12. Fateor

    Fateor Captain Captain

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    Tilly never raised shields after their cloak failed.
     
  13. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Cartoon Premium Member

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    I guess she's in good company ;)
     
  14. Amasov

    Amasov Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    You've echoed my sentiments almost word for word. I did enjoy this episode and was heavily invested in the drama of it all, but, I couldn't look beyond these things. Virtually NOTHING is ever set up and they are introduced to us as vital, but, because they weren't set up or hinted at prior, it only makes me feel like I missed an episode one week.

    One thing that confuses me is what does the solving of the Burn do for them in-universe? Sure, it's for us, the viewers, and for the Discovery crew to find out, but, once the Burn is solved, what does that change for them - if anything? Is the Federation just going to magically come back together now that a cause has been identified?
     
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  15. Paul755

    Paul755 Captain Captain

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    Not good, not bad, just meh. The whole episode was just one Trek-trope after another. Dangerous very powerful child, ship gets hijacked, malfunctioning holodeck, etc...

    this had to be the easiest “ship gets taken over” story since “The Final Frontier”. But even there Sybok had brainwashed the senior staff.

    not sure that I like that a Kelpian X-man is responsible for the burn but it is kind of a “out of left field” choice.

    this one gets a 5.
     
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  16. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Cartoon Premium Member

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    I'm curious. What make's you think you've missed an episode? What wasn't set up?

    Solving the Burn means preventing it from happening again. I think they've outright said that. No, the Federation won't magically come together, but it can start rebuilding. Especially if the threat of another Burn is eliminated and Dilithium World pans out.
     
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  17. Jesse1066

    Jesse1066 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    That was 904 years ago. She should have studied up and learned from his mistake!
     
  18. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    That always seems to be the intent from my understanding. Eliminating the fear that this burn will happen again would give them less worry and more confidence to build again.
     
  19. jackoverfull

    jackoverfull Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    speaking of the Borg, anyone noticing the guys in black suits having mind-control devices and telling people that stuff is irrelevant? Just saying...

    Just take him off and keep him away from the planet and it won’t.

    I really don’t think there is a traitor, but if there is and isn’t on discovery it can on my be Vance, as he’s the only non-discovery Starfleet that got a bit of characterization. I don’t think this will happen.

    Noticed that...I think they messed up something with the script or during editing and Culber was supposed to know about adira’s arrival. Now, why didn’t they bring the medicine they had onboard (the four-hour limit was already considering the stuff they brought with them) and how will they assume it, as it’s supposed to vanish in the holographic environment as the other stuff, is a good question.

    speaking of adira, I wonder if gray will appear to the others as well in the holographic environment!

    I think he will either be the ghost or the ghost will be a part of him.

    yep...As I was fearing last year the went all Andromeda: they’re supposed to rebuild the Commonwealth but we never see them doing it and one day we’ll be told they did it.

    How convenient that the corridor leads right there, in the middle of nowhere.

    they didn’t know about the Romulans...

    it’s called good writing, being episodic and episode length has nothing to do with it.
     
  20. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Cartoon Premium Member

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    I'm sure it's somewhere to somebody.