Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 3x09 - "Terra Firma, Part 1"

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Discovery' started by Commander Richard, Dec 9, 2020.

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Rate the episode...

  1. 10 - Excellent!

    17.3%
  2. 9

    21.8%
  3. 8

    19.8%
  4. 7

    16.3%
  5. 6

    8.9%
  6. 5

    5.4%
  7. 4

    4.0%
  8. 3

    1.5%
  9. 2

    2.0%
  10. 1 - Terrible!

    3.0%
  1. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    ...Yet the lowercase d there establishes that this is a placeholder name, the fourth planet discovered near the star. If somebody goes there in a starship, they'll find out it's, say, the third rock from the local sun, and it becomes Kepler 174 III instead.

    DSC arguably did this once already, with Eridani d in "Lethe". But that one was fictional to begin with.

    (Eleven hours still to go till the damn thing airs hereabouts.)

    Timo Saloniemi
     
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  2. Char Kais

    Char Kais Commander Red Shirt

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    He did say that the guardian would come back "made flesh". He was right
     
  3. KennyB

    KennyB I have spoken............ Moderator

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    I do not see how this ruins any childhoods...........
     
  4. MakeshiftPython

    MakeshiftPython Commodore Commodore

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    Baja?! I haven't got anything in Baja!
    I was expecting the total destruction of an entire franchise within 40 minutes.

    RMB disappointed me.
     
  5. Visitor1982

    Visitor1982 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I've given this one a 5. I simply detest the Mirror Universe, always have. Don't care for another universe one bit. It's cheesy, overacting characters and when you have just 13 episodes a season, why waste them on another universe with other characters? Yuck.
     
  6. mswood

    mswood Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Sorry to pick on your post, but the basis of your complaint is why I always was PISSED that Enterprise wasted 2 episodes on characters not in any way shape or form from the Prime Universe. And insult to injury they knew that the show was very likely never coming back when they did it. Even most of the other mirror universe episodes on Trek had at least the chance for our characters to reflect on what things could be like. UGGHHHH.

    On this episode, at the very least the Empress has been a part and parcel of the show since near the end of the 1st season. So like it or not at least she is a character who has interacted heavily with the characters on Discovery, and we have seen some change in her character.
     
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  7. KennyB

    KennyB I have spoken............ Moderator

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    Nice to see Landry back for a hot minute........
     
  8. Agony_Boothb

    Agony_Boothb Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The planet Discovery visits is in the Gamma quadrant, so it's not the guardian from TOS.
     
  9. Tim Thomason

    Tim Thomason Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    * Okay, we start off with the scene that everyone already saw. "I wasn't aware you had any medical training," says Culber. "I wasn't aware you even knew this guy exists," says I.
    * Every molecule wants to travel to its time of orign? Okay. Put Georgiou on a strict cleansing diet. Give her lots of regenerative therapy. Replace those molecules ASAP.
    * Everyone's talking about how they replaced Yor's combadge with the correct one (Yay), but I will note that Lt. Commander Yor isn't wearing any rank pips. I assume he's a time spy, or that the hologram wasn't complete.
    * Vance and Kovich are just now learning that Discovery has the most advanced AI of all time, and despite Discovery showing up there to escape another advanced AI that wanted to destroy all of mankind (and this has happened multiple times - Thanks, Picard), they just seem to shrug it off, instead of, you know, ordering the Discovery to be immediately destroyed.
    * Vance suggests that Airiam should've been killed faster. Vance is now the most evil character in all of Star Trek history.
    * "We'll deal with the Chain" = "You guys started this whole damn war in the first place. Just get out of here while we clean up your mess."
    * "Maybe we'll find something that can help you." - Maybe you should ask the computer what is on the uninhabited planet.
    * I mean, seriously, why the mystery? The computer (Zora) shouldn't be so trusted.
    * Ah, it's the guy from CSI, playing mysterious, "not exactly a lifesign" guy. Super-AI, I assume.
    * Carl is the greatest comedian of forever.
    * She might be pissed at your puns, Carl.
    * "Terra Firma!" Name drop. And I assume, some sort of psychological pseudo-flashback is going on. I wonder if Jason Isaacs is going to show up.
    * I'm not really commenting on the Kelpien reveal, because I was already spoiled on it, but, eh.
    * Torturing (or whatever) a slave to get the master's intentions is a tactic that goes back to Roman times. Mirror Michael must expect that Georgiou is doing this for that reason.

    A couple more lines on the Kelpien ship, a few more scenes in the not-really-mirror universe and... that's it. The Mirror Universe stuff isn't real, and they didn't even show the nebula yet (I'm sure there's something more interesting going on there). I don't know why Georgiou is all super-good now. Surely she knows she's not in the real mirror universe? Does she think this is some sort of psych test? I don't know if this really needed to be a two-parter.

    Still, I gave this a 10, of course. But it's a low 10. It could've been better.
     
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  10. Tim Thomason

    Tim Thomason Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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  11. KamenRiderBlade

    KamenRiderBlade Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    They said it's at the edge of the Gamma Quadarant near the Galactic Rim. So it's still within the Alpha Quadrant technically, just really "East" on the Quadrant map without going into Gamma Quadrant territory.
     
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  12. Agony_Boothb

    Agony_Boothb Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Yes, so still not the guardian from TOS.
     
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  13. KamenRiderBlade

    KamenRiderBlade Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The Guardian might have a sibling on another planet that is more lively and in corporeal form and not a voice?
     
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  14. Tim Thomason

    Tim Thomason Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    It's the Guardian, probably, just not on the Guardian planet. He might've moved to escape the wonton destruction of all time travel devices the century prior.
     
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  15. Agony_Boothb

    Agony_Boothb Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Someone else on the board mentioned how the Guardian was originally intended to be a 9 foot tall alien. Maybe they're a race of non-corporeal beings that can take whatever form suits them. Maybe the TOS guardian was a massive introvert and thought he'd attract less attention as a rock formation with a hole in it.
     
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  16. Agony_Boothb

    Agony_Boothb Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    It might be a guardian. For all we know there was more than one.
     
  17. DarKush

    DarKush Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I'm not sure about this episode. Even though I want them to do more character focused episodes, more that are or feel episodic in nature, I feel this return to the Mirror Universe (which I generally enjoy whenever Trek does it) feels weirdly placed to me, and cuts into the momentum that should be building about The Burn and the Emerald Chain. I was more interested in seeing Saru still acclimating to the captaincy, the doomed Kelpien who made that distress call, and what role Book will play on Discovery more than I was in a Georgiou redemption story with where we are in the season.

    I think Kovich is an intriguing character and liked the little tidbits of info he provided, which is some nice worldbuilding and tying together of the franchise. Also really liked the return of a TNG-style uniform. Tilly is still impressing me as first officer, her demeanor has changed and she is far less grating now.

    I was confused while looking at this episode. I didn't get who "Carl" was (expecting the Guardian of Forever to be tied into this) and thought it would've been great if John DeLancie had also done a cameo on DISCO like he did for Lower Decks. Hopefully Carl is a Q.

    Also I wasn't sure if this episode was retconning the first season's Mirror arc. Is, or can, Georgiou now change the past? By murdering Mirror Stamets what will the effect of that be in the 'future' (of the first season Mirror arc)? Also, this thing about Emperor Georgiou being 'weak'. From that first season, Emperor Georgiou was far from that, so it feels like the writers are also retconning in her compassion. As an aside, I thought Mirror Burnham's look was working for me, and I liked the looks for the other Mirror DISCO ladies. I liked the fight between Owosekun and Rhys, which reminded me of Uhura and Sulu's test of wills. Owosekun even got a Mirror Sulu like scar by the end of the episode so that was nice. Also liked that Rekha Sharma returned, which was a nice callback. I wish they had done more with her character, in both the Prime and Mirror universes, a waste of a good actress.

    I did like how the episode felt full circle in the Burnham-Georgiou relationship and how they beamed to an ice planet, whereas Prime Georgiou and Burnham were first introduced to us walking on a desert planet. And I liked a lot of the interchange between Georgiou and both Burnhams. I like how the Emperor explained how Prime Burnham is trying to save Mirror Georgiou because she didn't save Prime Georgiou and now it appears that Mirror Georgiou is trying to save Mirror Burnham, and I gather has transposed some of her feelings for her daughter onto Prime Burnham. It's a nice, knotty, complicated dynamic between the two of them.

    In a way I wish that they had taken Georgiou's redemption even slower. It felt weird to me when they jumpstarted down that path in Season 2, but it's been speeded up this season. The fun of the TOS and ENT Mirror episodes, and to some extent the DS9 ones was that many of the characters were their mirror opposites. DS9 and now DISCO have put more thought into the idea of what that might mean and how to write those characters and to explain the Mirror Universe, which I get, though some of the fun is taken away.

    I do think that TOS, DS9, and ENT also had better established their characters before going to the Mirror Universe so we could appreciate how different the characters were than they did in DISCO, which also took away the fun of seeing the characters we know act out of character. While looking at this episode I wished that we had gotten more Prime Georgiou and Prime Burnham together to really appreciate the changed dynamic here. I also didn't buy the line that Saru gave that Mirror Georgiou had taught him as much as Prime Georgiou. That felt like a cheapening of his relationship with Prime Georgiou, who if perhaps not a mother to him was a great mentor, and his literal savior. I could've better accepted that line if it had not just come after Saru declared that he and Mirror Georgiou don't parse words.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2020
  18. Tim Thomason

    Tim Thomason Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Maybe. But he introduced himself (to Kirk and the gang) with "I am the Guardian of Forever". He defines himself as a singular being, a title perhaps, and not one of a race of creatures or one of many AIs created. He guards Forever.

    So, I think it's the very same creature. Doing the very same mystery riddle game with Burnham as he did with Spock. To Burnham and Georgiou, he appeared as an old man with a doorway. To Kirk and Spock, he appeared as a destroyed archway amongst ruins. Dannus V and the Gateway Planet are just two of, perhaps, many access points where the Guardian hangs out, awaiting questions.
     
  19. Agony_Boothb

    Agony_Boothb Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    That actually makes a lot of sense and I don't see why anyone would have an issue with the lore expanding the Guardians abilities to such a degree.
     
  20. DaveyNY

    DaveyNY Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Eh ... I gave it a 5. . (... in my brain. I actually clicked on 4 :brickwall:)

    Obviously the Empress is going to alter her MU just enough so that she can bring it back to closer alignment with the Prime Universe.
    Then she'll be able to cross back over and survive here and everybody will live happily
    (or miserably) ever after.

    I didn't care for this particular episode.
    I've enjoyed some of the previous MU stuff, but this one just didn't appeal to me.
    I think perhaps it might be because of how dreadful this year has been.
    I'm tired of all the negativity and am looking for more lighthearted entertainment.
    This episode just adds more gloom & doom and I'm completely tired of it.

    :shrug:
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2020
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