I think you're right but would need to revisit it.
Maybe some do. Kind of like some humans do. It's not all or nothing here.
I still don't think Vance trusts Discovery fully.
Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 3x09 - "Terra Firma, Part 1"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
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Honestly, I read that as just he was horny.
I had bigger issues with the play that Stamets was narrating. The Terran Empire seems to have a concept of evil? I thought it "beyond" in a Nietzschean sense. If they define evil, they must define good as well...which raises the question what good is. If the Terran Empire was a bog-standard evil empire you could say something like "loyalty to the Terran Empire." But Terrans are sociopaths who believe that whatever you can successfully reach for, you should get - meaning even betraying the Emperor is fine as long as you aim for the king and don't miss.
I don’t know if this will happen, but I’m down with more Isaacs.
I just meant he wasn't lying about there being a GoF connection.
Me either. He has them right under his thumb. And I don't think it has anything to do with "it's different in the 32nd Century". Saru can't even breath without turning to him first. I've never seen an Admiral in Starfleet watch a Captain this closely.
But, that having been said, at least they gave Vance more to do this time, like talking about bad decisions he's made, even though he didn't go into any detail, and being understanding of the situation on Discovery.
Well, I certainly didn't expect to revisit the Mirror Universe any time soon. I wonder how real Georgiou's experience is, because it felt really dreamlike, especially with how she kept narrating what was happening around her ("this is the day that...") during her discussion with Killy, who didn't seem to find it weird at all. Is it some sort of mental time travel like what Q did with Picard in Tapestry, that would ultimately not change history? Perhaps a bit like Kirk in the Nexus in Generations, using it as a chance to make things right at first before ultimately realizing none of this is real. Hearing Mirror Burnham's confession about how she resents the Emperor turning her from a master of the trash heap into someone whose entire existence is dependent on her, it feels to me as if "Carl" sent Georgiou to this exact moment in space and time to help her resolve her issues regarding Michael. She chided Prime Michael for how she only brought her to the Prime Universe because she couldn't let go of Prime Georgiou, but it seems like she is just as unable to let go of her adoptive daughter herself. I don't see yet what endgame this could lead to, but possibly it's to prepare her emotionally for the decision to leave Prime Michael behind and return to the 23rd century where she might survive, thereby setting up the scene for a Section 31 series. Whether that's correct or not, I feel we're missing a lot of context here that will only get clarified the next week.
Overall, I found I didn't care as much for the Mirror Universe as I first thought I would (I mean, Captain Killy the Very Awesomest in the flesh, how cool is that?), because I felt the whole time as if none of this was real at all, that this is all a journey to the center of the mind for Georgiou's own benefit, not unlike how Deep Space Nine and Voyager usually served as the setting for Bashir's and Janeway's mental experiences. And, well, also because the moment Georgiou stepped through that door, the entire focus went with her and we didn't hear about our Discovery for the rest of the episode. I wasn't exactly sold on her as a protagonist, because (for me, at least), she works better as a snarky foil to our heroes than as a master of her own story. That being said, I'm still worried for her and I keep wondering what this is all about.
I'm also curious who "Carl" is, with his oh-so-mysterious attitude, constant obfuscation, his bowler hat and tweed jacket, and I suspect we'll find out the next week. I have a feeling he gave evasive answers to Burnham's questions because he wanted to convey that this was Georgiou's journey alone and she should stay out of it. And he would've probably been right... I was convinced she would run through the door right after Georgiou.
Vance keeps being a pleasant surprise, with both his advice to Saru about leaving no one behind, and also letting Burnham help Georgiou while signaling she should be able to let her go. I loved that he had read up on Discovery and pointed out what had happened with Airiam, but perhaps he could've also mentioned that it was Burnham's fault that Georgiou was in the Prime Universe in the first place, because she couldn't let go of a mentor who was already dead. Of course, Georgiou told her that later herself.
Observations:
Overall, I found I didn't care as much for the Mirror Universe as I first thought I would (I mean, Captain Killy the Very Awesomest in the flesh, how cool is that?), because I felt the whole time as if none of this was real at all, that this is all a journey to the center of the mind for Georgiou's own benefit, not unlike how Deep Space Nine and Voyager usually served as the setting for Bashir's and Janeway's mental experiences. And, well, also because the moment Georgiou stepped through that door, the entire focus went with her and we didn't hear about our Discovery for the rest of the episode. I wasn't exactly sold on her as a protagonist, because (for me, at least), she works better as a snarky foil to our heroes than as a master of her own story. That being said, I'm still worried for her and I keep wondering what this is all about.
I'm also curious who "Carl" is, with his oh-so-mysterious attitude, constant obfuscation, his bowler hat and tweed jacket, and I suspect we'll find out the next week. I have a feeling he gave evasive answers to Burnham's questions because he wanted to convey that this was Georgiou's journey alone and she should stay out of it. And he would've probably been right... I was convinced she would run through the door right after Georgiou.
Vance keeps being a pleasant surprise, with both his advice to Saru about leaving no one behind, and also letting Burnham help Georgiou while signaling she should be able to let her go. I loved that he had read up on Discovery and pointed out what had happened with Airiam, but perhaps he could've also mentioned that it was Burnham's fault that Georgiou was in the Prime Universe in the first place, because she couldn't let go of a mentor who was already dead. Of course, Georgiou told her that later herself.
Observations:
- Kovich talking about Terrans being driven by instinct felt quite a bit racist to me. No wonder Hugh immediately called bullshit and prompted the computer to find a cure for her.
- I was pleasantly surprised by Georgiou showing begrudging respect to Saru and Tilly, and found it very funny how she basically went all "does not compute" at receiving the full Tilly hug treatment... then she hugged her back, then immediately realized what she was doing and asked Burnham to get the hell out of here with a really embarrassed look on her face. I still maintain she has a shriveled, smoking, gray Romulan heart deep inside somewhere.
- I'm especially intrigued by the dilithium nursery the Kelpiens claim to have found inside the nebula. Could it be that SB-19 was an attempt to artificially grow and farm dilithium crystals (instead of simply recrystallizing them over and over with possibly ever-diminishing results) that somehow went horribly wrong?
- Did Mirror Stamets and Culber seriously use agonizers as party games? They reminded me of Brunt's Nausicaan henchmen from Body Parts (EDIT: Bar Association. I mean Bar Association. I never wrote Body Parts, no sir), the ones who kept throwing darts at each other.
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They choose to change time.
And this wasn't even an important time change, it was a mostly meaningless one.
Except the Empress is being written out of the show for her own, so it's meaningless.
It's a double episode backdoor pilot, with all the problems that entails.
What I am saying is that the fact there is/may be a/the Guardian is immaterial. His argument was that the use of the Guardian motif is unconscionable, and must be met with extreme opposition or hostility. He was not just wrong, he was lying.
I liked this one a lot.
I can see how the bowler hat makes people think of Doctor Who, but Star Trek has a long history of omnipotent aliens taking human-in-goofy-historical-costume form.
I didn't care for the Mirror universe arc in season 1 at all, but I actually really enjoyed it here.
Also, the art deco 'Metropolis' look of the Mirror universe costuming really works for me. That hadn't clicked with me before.
I'm very pleased that it seems like something interesting is in the nebula.
Edit to add: Oh, and aside from some well-placed nods to Star Trek's most famous time travel episode, I'm not convinced that bowler hat guy has anything to do with the guardian of forever. But I guess we'll find out next week. Either way, nothing destroyed Star Trek this week. Better luck next time, bowler hat guy!
I can see how the bowler hat makes people think of Doctor Who, but Star Trek has a long history of omnipotent aliens taking human-in-goofy-historical-costume form.
I didn't care for the Mirror universe arc in season 1 at all, but I actually really enjoyed it here.
Also, the art deco 'Metropolis' look of the Mirror universe costuming really works for me. That hadn't clicked with me before.
I'm very pleased that it seems like something interesting is in the nebula.
Edit to add: Oh, and aside from some well-placed nods to Star Trek's most famous time travel episode, I'm not convinced that bowler hat guy has anything to do with the guardian of forever. But I guess we'll find out next week. Either way, nothing destroyed Star Trek this week. Better luck next time, bowler hat guy!
It was just to foment hostility.
Exactly... for me, it felt as though he stepped right out of a TOS episode, perhaps with just a tiny Q continuum vibe.
My, gosh, I haven't been so bored during a Disco episode since the talk fest that was season one's penultimate episode. I hate the MU. It has always been a cartoon, and you can't base a serious, several hour long dramatic arc on a cartoon. It's just a lot of grunting and kill-or-be-killed tropes. I agree with @Ryan Thomas Riddle , the Gaurdian/Q isn't very compelling. He's just another Sphinx at a cross roads with nothing interesting to say (yet, I guess).
I don't know what the endgame of this flash back is and I don't really care because, above all, I don't care about Philipa. She's never been much of an interesting character, just a sort of devil on your shoulder imp without much depth. I've been cheering for her demise since she left the MU. I don't know why anyone has any sympathy for her or wants her around.
I don't know what the endgame of this flash back is and I don't really care because, above all, I don't care about Philipa. She's never been much of an interesting character, just a sort of devil on your shoulder imp without much depth. I've been cheering for her demise since she left the MU. I don't know why anyone has any sympathy for her or wants her around.
How were they able to use it in TAS?
I mean, the list of beings that could fit in the Q type beings is quite long so it would make sense to have more.
Every Mirror Universe episode ever is so bad. I can't believe anyone actually enjoys that stuff. It's so corny, cartoonish and can't be taken seriously at all.
IDIC-not just for TV shows any more
Dunno if it was intentional or not, but when Burnham asks Carl "Who are you?" I couldn't help but chuckle and sing "Who who! Who Who!" in reference to the original CSI's theme by The Who and Paul Gulifoyle being part of the original cast
This is a franchise where women in go-go boots once stole Spock's brain to use as the main power source for their society's central computer and embarrassing Irish stereotypes once beamed onto an Enterprise with goats and other farm animals. Cartoonish is what Trek often does and it must be good at it if the franchise has lasted about 56 years.
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