Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 3x07 - "Unification III"

[eschaton]

The more isolated or insular the community, the less likely there is for inter-species off spring.

Actually, I'm not quite sure this is true. I have read studies before projecting about the multiracial future of mankind, and among the last places to have people visibly one race or another will be densely populated areas like Central China. The reason being that there are just so many people of a single ancestry that the occasional person moving in is like a drop in the bucket, with ancestry more or less vanishing within a few generations.

In addition, it's pretty easy for areas like remote mountain valleys to experience genetic drift over time. Just have one successful outsider move into a small town, have lots of children, and in a few hundred years half of the population could end up with his last name.

Trek has generally speaking always been terrible depicting a reasonable amount of multiracial people - whether human or human-alien hybrids. I suppose one could partially chalk this up to presentism, and partially to the vagrancies of casting. But if I were casting director of a Trek show, I would make 80% of the humans an indeterminate brown.

 

[Yistaan]

Although they're called nuns, do we really know the Qowat Milat have any supernatural beliefs?

Not that I'm aware of. Do you watch Picard? Pretty much everything about the Qowat Milat are in there, since that's the show they were introduced in.

i really don’t see the problem: we really didn’t know much about her apart from her being michael’s mother and messing with time travel, so it’s not as if they changed the character to bring her there. Perhaps she always felt a calling to become a nun. Perhaps the idea of complete candor alluded her. Perhaps it just seemed the most logical way to integrate in a future with no stable points of reference.

Dr. Burnham suddenly becoming a Qowat Milat was just a way to force her into the Ni'var forum. Literally nothing about her character in the last episode suggested she'd be the type to join such a group. She's a Federation scientist. If anything, it seems more likely she'd ditch the Qowat Milat and join Discovery to catch up with her daughter, and continue her science work as a Federation scientist on board.

But if I were casting director of a Trek show, I would make 80% of the humans an indeterminate brown.

Well, Vance is played by a Middle Eastern Israeli, Book is played by an actor of African heritage, and I have no idea what ethnicity Willa's actress is but she sort of looks Hispanic. It's certainly a lot better than what other shows do (which admittedly is a rather low bar in terms of diversity).

 

[eschaton]

Not that I'm aware of. Do you watch Picard? Pretty much everything about the Qowat Milat are in there, since that's the show they were introduced in.

Yes, of course I did. I remember nothing about religion from Absolute Candor. I know Narek went into some Romulan mythology, but it didn't really seem related to what they did at all.

I believe they were meant to basically be a pseudo-eastern monastic school, only all female. Basically all about cool martial arts and obscure philosophy.

 

[Yistaan]

Yes, of course I did. I remember nothing about religion from Absolute Candor. I know Narek went into some Romulan mythology, but it didn't really seem related to what they did at all.

I believe they were meant to basically be a pseudo-eastern monastic school, only all female. Basically all about cool martial arts and obscure philosophy.

Yeah I have no idea what the in-universe justification for the all female thing is. I wouldn't be against having 32nd century male Qowat Milat warriors running around citing Elnor as their founder.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Yes, of course I did. I remember nothing about religion from Absolute Candor. I know Narek went into some Romulan mythology, but it didn't really seem related to what they did at all.

I believe they were meant to basically be a pseudo-eastern monastic school, only all female. Basically all about cool martial arts and obscure philosophy.

I don't recall any thing religious about Qowat Milat. The mythology Narek mentions was from the Quwat's rivals, the Zhat Vash.

 

[Yistaan]

I don't recall any thing religious about Qowat Milat. The mythology Narek mentions was from the Quwat's rivals, the Zhat Vash.

The all female thing smacks of being religious though, unless Romulan females have some inherent physical advantages in Qowat Milat fighting styles that we haven't heard about yet.

As for the Zhat Vash, considering how quickly Romulans embraced the Federation to the point they even wanted to stay on against Vulcans' wishes, I assume the Romulans accepted that the loss of the evacuation fleet was not the Fed's fault but the Zhat Vash's, and they were dealt with appropriately. I'd still like to see if there are a lot of synths running around in the 32nd century though. I mentioned in another thread they could be adapted to use the spore drive through genetically altering their organic components. After all, even 24th century synths were able to mind meld.

 

[Discofan]

Yeah I have no idea what the in-universe justification for the all female thing is. I wouldn't be against having 32nd century male Qowat Milat warriors running around citing Elnor as their founder.

And saying stuff like "choose to live and get out of my way."

 

[Timo]

I disagree. Everyone uses stardates. Only the people of Earth use our calendar which when you stop to think about it, only makes sense on Earth, after all, it's based on Earth's orbit around the sun and Earth's rotation around its own axis. It makes no sense on any other planet.

In a parallel thread, Paul Weaver made a good argument for everybody really referring to Earth years whenever discussing the past...

Significantly, Admiral Vance upholds the tradition of humans calling the shots in Starfleet, and is keen on using Earth dates for clarifying things for a time-traveling Kelpien skipper. I don't really see his predecessors acting any differently.

Has any UFP alien ever used stardates to discuss the past? Or even the present?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Yistaan]

In a parallel thread, Paul Weaver made a good argument for everybody really referring to Earth years whenever discussing the past...

Significantly, Admiral Vance upholds the tradition of humans calling the shots in Starfleet, and is keen on using Earth dates for clarifying things for a time-traveling Kelpien skipper. I don't really see his predecessors acting any differently.

Has any UFP alien ever used stardates to discuss the past? Or even the present?

Timo Saloniemi

For all we know universal translators automatically convert whatever time system a speaker is using into something the receiver understands.

 

[Timo]

Which works best if we assume "the receiver" in fact is "the audience", regardless of who's speaking and to whom.

Really, as far as we can tell, the heroes always speak Sanskrit, including when they are amazed that the people of pseudo-Rome use English, that quaint old language that died out right after the UT was invented...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Irvy]

Of course, there are plenty who would suggest that we all already have a bit of alien dna, and that it's the missing link between hominids and us. I'm not saying it's Giorgio (but it's Giorgio).

I'm from N ireland, but my surname is Scottish (we have a city named for us), and if you trace the line back, it goes to what's now Spain. We're almost all immigrants, if you go far enough back.

 

[Discofan]

For all we know universal translators automatically convert whatever time system a speaker is using into something the receiver understands.

Which would explain why aliens on Enterprise measure things in meters. The UT made the conversion automatically.

 

[Irvy]

What I really want to see next week is the scene with Saru informing the Admiral of his choice for XO. In your own time, Saru.

 

[Discofan]

What I really want to see next week is the scene with Saru informing the Admiral of his choice for XO. In your own time, Saru.

I think Saru is granted full discretion on that.

 

[Irvy]

I think Saru is granted full discretion on that.

Yeah, but Vance has already questioned his judgement over Michael's black box mission, he'll have read about Pike's concerns about his judgement in the period after his ganglia dropped (it's a difficult time in a young man's life). I think the Admiral is going to want Saru to explain his reasoning for putting the least ready person in the most responsible position besides his own. I know the whole thing appeals to the modern "you don't need experience or training, just do whatever and hope nobody notices" thing. There are hundreds of lives at stake, the XO is supposed to be a seasoned officer who has proven themselves coming through the ranks. It's literally like Sisko giving Kira's post to Nog. Fake it til you make it is not the Starfleet motto.

I also think that Saru's on a trajectory of bad decisions that will lead inevitably to a confrontation between him and Michael, and another mutiny. Captain Burnham will sit in that chair.

 

[Discofan]

Yeah, but Vance has already questioned his judgement over Michael's black box mission, he'll have read about Pike's concerns about his judgement in the period after his ganglia dropped (it's a difficult time in a young man's life). I think the Admiral is going to want Saru to explain his reasoning for putting the least ready person in the most responsible position besides his own. I know the whole thing appeals to the modern "you don't need experience or training, just do whatever and hope nobody notices" thing. There are hundreds of lives at stake, the XO is supposed to be a seasoned officer who has proven themselves coming through the ranks. It's literally like Sisko giving Kira's post to Nog. Fake it til you make it is not the Starfleet motto.

I also think that Saru's on a trajectory of bad decisions that will lead inevitably to a confrontation between him and Michael, and another mutiny. Captain Burnham will sit in that chair.

Well, then Tllly definitely saved their asses when Pike et al. were stuck on Terralysium and threatened by that Dark matter meteor. Wait... I mean she used dark matter to divert the meteor... Anyway, they owe her big on that one.

 

[Noname Given]

Dr. Burnham suddenly becoming a Qowat Milat was just a way to force her into the Ni'var forum. Literally nothing about her character in the last episode suggested she'd be the type to join such a group. She's a Federation scientist. If anything, it seems more likely she'd ditch the Qowat Milat and join Discovery to catch up with her daughter, and continue her science work as a Federation scientist on board.

IDK - given that she time traveled for decades in an attempt to thwart the end of all life in the universe; perhaps she's no longer that interested in science itself - And given what she went through, "absolute candor" (IE being completely true to yourself and others) appeal to her.
^^^
Again given the experience of the character I have no problems believing such a change in her would occur.

 

[PiotrB]

It is a very good continuation of the history of Unification and, by the way, an allegory of the current political situation in many countries around the world. It was a very good idea to show the Romulans as those who wanted to remain in the Federation and surprise Burnham and Saru with this fact.
The biggest positive thing is the ending of the thread of Burnham's departure from Starfleet and Discovery. On the one hand, such an ending was obvious, but on the other hand, there were quite a few commentators hoping for Burnham to leave and thus change her status as the main character of the series. Schadenfreude is a pleasant feeling.
Another important issue raised in the comments and not only that is crying. [/sarcasm] Well, if Netflix shared episodes like CBS AA on Thursday I wouldn't even notice these two tears in one of the last scenes of the episode. Unfortunately, for the people of Europe and the rest of the world, after the hype in many American comments and reviews where Burnham appears almost as Janice Lester comes to the disappointment in every subsequent episode.
Finally, I will comment on Tilly. I do not know what was expected. Here the main factor was the list of the main cast of the series. And on this list only the character played by Mary Wiseman was the logical choice and in this respect the script had to be written. It is not ideal, but even the plot has to adapt to the reality of the series' production.

10.

 

[Yistaan]

Yeah, but Vance has already questioned his judgement over Michael's black box mission, he'll have read about Pike's concerns about his judgement in the period after his ganglia dropped (it's a difficult time in a young man's life). I think the Admiral is going to want Saru to explain his reasoning for putting the least ready person in the most responsible position besides his own.

Vance: So, you took the least experienced ensign as your acting first officer, Captain Saru?
Saru: Admiral Vance, I can explain...
Vance: No need, take a look at my service history here.
Saru: Why is there nothing between Cadet Vance and Admiral Vance, Commander in Chief of Starfleet?
Vance: Exactly.

 

[Irvy]

Well, then Tllly definitely saved their asses when Pike et al. were stuck on Terralysium and threatened by that Dark matter meteor. Wait... I mean she used dark matter to divert the meteor... Anyway, they owe her big on that one.

That's not how it works in the military, or in the real world. No they don't owe her, she did her job/duty. That's how experience works, you work hard, and over time you learn and improve and get better. You don't do one good thing and get handed the diploma just because, gosh, we're just so gosh darn impressed that you did a thing and didn't give up halfway through.