At least she came clean about it that she's been getting cozy with an illusionary twin and admitting she understands she's with the genuine article right now. She probably thought honesty was the best policy to avoid Pike getting creeped out (i.e. a Brahms La Forge situation).
Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 2x08 - "If Memory Serves"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
- Start date
That's my take as well. Starfleet Intelligence and Section 31 are hand in had in this time period from what this episode showed and the Section 31 'Admiral Cabal' was played by; and in their eyes screwed over hard by the Talosians; so yeah, they want to be damn sure no one in Starfleet ever makes contact with them again.
No...it's the moon Spock has often stated Vulcan doesn't have.Is that Delta Vega (Vulcan system) in the background?
This is a *huge* fan service episode, with tie-ins from Vina and the Talosians and Pike's relationship that seem to come out of nowhere if you're only watching this season. The Previously recapped The Cage for cryin' out loud.
It's possible that this episode is overly reliant on non-Discovery references, that I can't really see because I'm a big fan that spent much of yesterday watching The Cage and The Menagerie in preparation for this ep. Real people might be more "meh" or just plain old confused by the story.
This heavy reliance on other series isn't new though. The Defiant in the Mirror Universe references in Season 1 would be completely confusing to those who didn't watch the Mirror episodes of Enterprise.
To me, excessive fan service means adding things that serve no narrative purpose and introduce confusion for viewers who don't know the history. Palatable fan service is invisible to those viewers and rewarding for those who know. In this case, my friend had no idea about any of the backstory except what was given here, and thought the episode was stellar. He was moved by Pike's story, and immediately wanted to know more about Vina. At least for him, the episode resonated and never felt forced.
And I'd agree with him: everything they brought in had a logical reason for being there, was explained elegantly, and didn't overstay its welcome. The Talosians had little to do, for instance, except as the story required.
In the episode "The Cage" they do give give the impression all members of the Enterprise Landing Party (including Spock) were there for some time getting the Survivors and their belongings/equipment packed up; and conversing with them BEFORE the sequence where Vina takes Pike away for the Talosians to capture. You could assume Spock and Vina spoke a bit in that time.
This was really great. I liked a lot of the Tyler stuff too, and he's been annoying lately.
Loved everything between Pike and Vina. I'm strangely emotional about it.
We got to see Tellar Prime!
There are AI's in Star Trek! And that it's called "Control" is so cool, says this John le Carré fan.
The ship cleans itself!
The only thing I didn't like was the "male" Talosian and the blocky Talosioan makeup overall. too comic book like, less delicate like the original. They looked like they were overcompensating. After-all they're all played by women and sound like men because they're an evolved androgynous race with weaker bodies and massive brains.
What's the cabal of Section 31 pro admirals and the others who are against? Section 31 has an HQ? Dafuq?
Loved everything between Pike and Vina. I'm strangely emotional about it.
We got to see Tellar Prime!
There are AI's in Star Trek! And that it's called "Control" is so cool, says this John le Carré fan.
The ship cleans itself!
The only thing I didn't like was the "male" Talosian and the blocky Talosioan makeup overall. too comic book like, less delicate like the original. They looked like they were overcompensating. After-all they're all played by women and sound like men because they're an evolved androgynous race with weaker bodies and massive brains.
What's the cabal of Section 31 pro admirals and the others who are against? Section 31 has an HQ? Dafuq?
It would make sense that an organisation like 31 would go from being overt and then going underground in order to survive once their support erodes. Perhaps everything they do during this time period, gets re-written as being done by extreme agencies within starfleet intelligence which led to various 'reforms' of SI and the quiet covering up of 31.
It's a Centralized Intelligence Agency after all
I do but I'm a curmudgeon that grew up on the show it's first time on TV.
10/10
This episode was an UNABASHED love letter to old school TOS fans like myself and I $%#$! LOVED EVERY MINUTE OF IT.
(This is HOW you do a Valentine to the Fans of a show -- those hacks Rick Berman and Brannon Braga should watch this episode and take %$#@! notes on HOW TO DO IT RIGHT!)
But some particulars:
LOVED:
- The "Last time on Star Trek" sequence and the interesting effects they used to move it along...BEAUTIFUL!
- The attempt to light the outside location they were shooting at in a way that matches the lighting aspect of the Diorama stage set that was used as the ground for 'Talos IV' in TOS - "The Cage".
- The attention to detail WRT the sound effects.
i) All the 'Mind' transitions used the faint sound effect used for a lot of the same types of transitions in TOS - "The Cage"
ii) Burnham walking out of the Shuttle and hearing the 'alien planet' sound effect used in TOS - "The Cage" and many times in various TOS episodes. (And yeah, they showed it was due to a particular native plant, but it was still cool.)
- Vina. I thought we might have an encounter with her in some fashion; but the way they used her in the episode was %$#@! perfect, and the scenes with her and Pike were really touching and I liked that they provided more of an insight to Pike and we fans got to see that yes; he loved Vina and still thought about her and what occurred on Talos IV 3 years earlier.
- That they didn't cop out and fully showed what occurred between Burnhan and Spock; and didn't continue to drag out the reveal (although I agree with the others that after all this time; Spock understood what Burnham did and why she did it - so IDK; yes, when he was 10 years old it was an emotional trauma and it hurt - but yeah, Spock (even pre-TOS Spock) should have been able to understand and process what happened.) So, in the end for what it was IMO Burham was blowing it out of proportion (IMO), I honestly think once Amanda finds out - she'll be "Really? That was it?". Again, what she did was mean, and somewhat initially traumatic for young Spock; but her reasons for doing it were ultimately well-intentioned, and logical (for a near teenager).
- Michelle Yeoh again. Yeah, I gush over her a bit, but I do like what they are doing with her and LOVE her portrayal of the Terran Empress. As she stated - when the Talosians tricked her, she came back and wiped them out (although I don't think it was as easy as she made it seem in her retelling. She KNEW they were probably being faked out with the Burnham/Spock beam up; but she said NOTHING to Leland because again, she is just out to screw him over and take his place. I at least hope that before we see him taken out; the DO show him somewhat realizing what Georgiou is playing at; and he gets at least one good bit of payback before he's gone.
- The exchange between Saru and Pile in the Turbo Lift and the corridor after the Culber/Tyler dust up in the mess hall (The Culber/Tyler fight itself was well done too) - especially Saru's description of "What NOT in the Book" and Pike a "By the Book" Captain basically saying "Yeah, I can see your point...to a point,,,but never again, okay?"
Disliked:
- In the end, nothing. I won't say it's perfect front to back; but nothing stands out to the degree I'd lower my rating or overall great feeling I had in watching the episode.
I really enjoyed this episode and the attention to detail in how it was crafted. IMO it wasn't just 'fanwank' for the sake of 'fanwank' or done for the sake of 'lets see how many references we can fit in here...' (unlike a certain utter crap series finale from a previous Star Trek franchise series whose common abbreviation is ENT) - everything in the episode served a story purpose and fit well (at least for me.) It's pretty mush a continuation/sequel to TOS - "The Cage" but it works well in that way too.
One thing I also love is this episode helps to explain WHY Spock was willing to risk so much to help Pike in TOS - "The Menagerie"; and it really makes the whole thing come 'full circle'.
I can see how people who grudging accept TOS, but really like the later series more (like TNG, DS9, etc.), might not think so highly of what was done here; and perhaps consider it 'too retro' in many respects - but for an old school TOS fan who REALLY loves TOS like I do; this episode hit all the right notes it a really touching and entertaining way that I $#@! LOVED,
So again 10/10
(And honestly while I did like the B Plot - and said B plot was a lot better than others they've used in previous episodes, it was just overshadowed (but for me that was a good thing) by the main "Spock goes to Talos IV to get healed" plot.)
This episode was an UNABASHED love letter to old school TOS fans like myself and I $%#$! LOVED EVERY MINUTE OF IT.
(This is HOW you do a Valentine to the Fans of a show -- those hacks Rick Berman and Brannon Braga should watch this episode and take %$#@! notes on HOW TO DO IT RIGHT!)
But some particulars:
LOVED:
- The "Last time on Star Trek" sequence and the interesting effects they used to move it along...BEAUTIFUL!
- The attempt to light the outside location they were shooting at in a way that matches the lighting aspect of the Diorama stage set that was used as the ground for 'Talos IV' in TOS - "The Cage".
- The attention to detail WRT the sound effects.
i) All the 'Mind' transitions used the faint sound effect used for a lot of the same types of transitions in TOS - "The Cage"
ii) Burnham walking out of the Shuttle and hearing the 'alien planet' sound effect used in TOS - "The Cage" and many times in various TOS episodes. (And yeah, they showed it was due to a particular native plant, but it was still cool.)
- Vina. I thought we might have an encounter with her in some fashion; but the way they used her in the episode was %$#@! perfect, and the scenes with her and Pike were really touching and I liked that they provided more of an insight to Pike and we fans got to see that yes; he loved Vina and still thought about her and what occurred on Talos IV 3 years earlier.
- That they didn't cop out and fully showed what occurred between Burnhan and Spock; and didn't continue to drag out the reveal (although I agree with the others that after all this time; Spock understood what Burnham did and why she did it - so IDK; yes, when he was 10 years old it was an emotional trauma and it hurt - but yeah, Spock (even pre-TOS Spock) should have been able to understand and process what happened.) So, in the end for what it was IMO Burham was blowing it out of proportion (IMO), I honestly think once Amanda finds out - she'll be "Really? That was it?". Again, what she did was mean, and somewhat initially traumatic for young Spock; but her reasons for doing it were ultimately well-intentioned, and logical (for a near teenager).
- Michelle Yeoh again. Yeah, I gush over her a bit, but I do like what they are doing with her and LOVE her portrayal of the Terran Empress. As she stated - when the Talosians tricked her, she came back and wiped them out (although I don't think it was as easy as she made it seem in her retelling. She KNEW they were probably being faked out with the Burnham/Spock beam up; but she said NOTHING to Leland because again, she is just out to screw him over and take his place. I at least hope that before we see him taken out; the DO show him somewhat realizing what Georgiou is playing at; and he gets at least one good bit of payback before he's gone.
- The exchange between Saru and Pile in the Turbo Lift and the corridor after the Culber/Tyler dust up in the mess hall (The Culber/Tyler fight itself was well done too) - especially Saru's description of "What NOT in the Book" and Pike a "By the Book" Captain basically saying "Yeah, I can see your point...to a point,,,but never again, okay?"
Disliked:
- In the end, nothing. I won't say it's perfect front to back; but nothing stands out to the degree I'd lower my rating or overall great feeling I had in watching the episode.
I really enjoyed this episode and the attention to detail in how it was crafted. IMO it wasn't just 'fanwank' for the sake of 'fanwank' or done for the sake of 'lets see how many references we can fit in here...' (unlike a certain utter crap series finale from a previous Star Trek franchise series whose common abbreviation is ENT
) - everything in the episode served a story purpose and fit well (at least for me.) It's pretty mush a continuation/sequel to TOS - "The Cage" but it works well in that way too.One thing I also love is this episode helps to explain WHY Spock was willing to risk so much to help Pike in TOS - "The Menagerie"; and it really makes the whole thing come 'full circle'.
I can see how people who grudging accept TOS, but really like the later series more (like TNG, DS9, etc.), might not think so highly of what was done here; and perhaps consider it 'too retro' in many respects - but for an old school TOS fan who REALLY loves TOS like I do; this episode hit all the right notes it a really touching and entertaining way that I $#@! LOVED,
So again 10/10
(And honestly while I did like the B Plot - and said B plot was a lot better than others they've used in previous episodes, it was just overshadowed (but for me that was a good thing) by the main "Spock goes to Talos IV to get healed" plot.)
Last edited:
I like the use of the recap. It should really be clear now that there won’t be a canon explanation for why things look different, just the fact these are productions 55 years apart.
They changed actors from time to time for the same character during the Berman years, and no one noticed half the time.
Yeah, it is a shame the B plot got used here since I kept waiting to get back to the main story. It is really good the way they are handling coming back from the dead and dealing with the fall out. None of the shows have really done much with that which seems surprising given how many folks slip back on the mortal coil. Mortal coil, more like mortal bungee cord at this point.10/10
This episode was an UNABASHED love letter to old school TOS fans like myself and I $%#$! LOVED EVERY MINUTE OF IT.
(This is HOW you do a Valentine to the Fans of a show -- those hacks Rick Berman and Brannon Braga should watch this episode and take %$#@! notes on HOW TO DO IT RIGHT!)
But some particulars:
LOVED:
- The "Last time on Star Trek" sequence and the interesting effects they used to move it along...BEAUTIFUL!
- The attempt to light the location they were shooting at in a way that mathes the lighting aspect of the Diorama stage set that was used as the ground fpr 'Talos IV' in TOS - "The Cage".
- The attention to detail WRT the sound effects.
i) All the 'Mind' transitions used the faint sound effect used for a lot of the same types of transitions in TOS - "The Cage"
ii) Burnham walking out of the Shuttle and hearing the 'alien planet' sound effect (used in TOS - "The Cage" and many times in various TOS episodes. (And yeah, they showed it was due to a particular native plant, but it was still cool.)
- Vina. I thought we might have an encounter with her in some fashion; but the way they used her in the episode was %$#@! perfect, and the scenes with her and Pike were really touching and I liked that they provided more of an insight to Pike and we fans got to see that yes; he loved Vina and still thought about her and what occurred on Talos IV 3 years earlier.
- That they didn't cop out and just showed what occurred between Burnhan and Spock; and didn't continue to drag out the reveal (although I agree with the others that after all this time; Spock understood what Burnham did and why she did it - so IDK; yes, when he was 10 years old it was an emotional trauma and it hurt - but yeah, Spock (even pre-TOS Spock) should have been able to understand and process what happened.) So, in the end for what it was IMO Burham was blowing it out of proportion (IMO), I honestly think once Amanda finds out - she'll be "Really? That was it?". Again, what she did was mean, and somewhat initially traumatic for young Spock; but her reasons for doing it were ultimately well-intentioned, and logical (for a near teenager).
- Michelle Yeoh again. Yeah, I gush over her a bit, but I do like what they are doing with her and LOVE her portrayal of the Terran Empress. As she stated - when the Talosians tricked her, she came back and wiped them out (although I don't think it was as easy as she made it seem in her retelling. She KNEW they were probably being faked out with the Burnham/Spock beam out but she said NOTHING to Leland because again, she just out to screw him over and take his place. I at least hope that before we see him taken out; the DO show him somewhat realizing what Georgiou is playing at; and he gets at least one goot bit of payback before he's gone.
- The exchange between Saru and Pile in the Turbo Lift and the corridor after the Culber/Tyler dust up in the mess hall (The Culber/Tyler fight itself was well done too) - especially Saru's description of "What NOT in the Book" and Pike a "By the Book" Captain basically saying "Yeah, I can see your point...to a point,,,but never again, okay?"
Disliked:
- In the end, nothing. I won't say it's perfect front to back; but nothing stands out to the degree I'd lower my rating or overall great feeling I had in watching the episode.
In the end I really enjoyed this episode and the attention to detail in how it was crafted. IMO it wasn't just 'fanwank' for the sake of 'fanwank' or done for the sake of 'lets see how many references we can fit in here...' (unlike a certain utter crap series finale from a previous Star Trek franchise series whose common abbreviation is ENT
One thing I also love is this episode helps to explain WHY Spock was willing to risk so much to help Pike in TOS - "The Menagerie"; and it really makes the whole thing come 'full circle'.
I can see how people who grudging accept TOS, but really like the later series more (like TNG, DS9, etc.), might not think so highly of what was done here; and perhaps consider it 'too retro' in many respects - but for an old school TOS fan who REALLY loves TOS like I do; this episode hit all the right notes it a really touching and entertaining way that I $#@! LOVED,
So again 10/10
(And honestly while I did like the B Plot - and said B plot was a lot better than others they've used in previous episodes, it was just overshadowed (but for me that was a good thing) by the main "Spock goes to Talos IV to get healed" plot.)
On one hand, I can see the point about Spock not having gotten over what Burnham did but on the other hand the apple really doesn't fall far from the tree on Vulcan, either, it seems.
And TOS was completely animated at one point.
Discovery needs to bring back those goofy Life support belts landing parties used in TAS. AND there has to be a yellow outline around the character TO RESPECT CANON!!!!A1AAz!11111
This is the first time I want to give a bigger grade than 10 to an episode of Discovery. Although I love Discovery I never thought of any episode until now to be in my top 5 list of favorite Star Trek episodes. Well I think this one qualifies. It is a top 10 easily but I think it cracks into my top 5. Well executed absolutely superb episode.
And I think that with this episode we have seen every single scene that we had in the season 2 trailers. We have seen nothing in the season 2 trailers that will come from now on.
And I think that with this episode we have seen every single scene that we had in the season 2 trailers. We have seen nothing in the season 2 trailers that will come from now on.
Not feeling this one like everyone else, as I’ve said before nostalgia hasn’t been doing anything for me with this series.
I was laughing for a while at that, even had to rewind it to make sure that’s what they said (even though we always pronounce it “sequel”). They should use our code we’ve hardened it against that.
SQL injection in the 23rd century?
Kor
I was laughing for a while at that, even had to rewind it to make sure that’s what they said (even though we always pronounce it “sequel”). They should use our code we’ve hardened it against that.
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