Discussion in 'Fan Productions' started by BoredShipCapt'n, May 19, 2015.
We must agree to disagree.
As long as we do so agreeably.
I can certainly see how your experience would lead you to feel that way because as someone who's seen every episode of all the series, I can say that they all feel like Star Trek to me.
Having said that, there are certain things that are more common to one series than another, and so those elements become more associated with one or another series. STC has enough elements that I associate more with TNG than TOS (particularly the Counselor, and Holodeck in "The White Iris") that those elements stand out enough to me to create the impression of a TNG episode more than a TOS one.
There is no right or wrong here, just individual perceptions colored by experience.
The internet and "calm" are not synonymous. (-:
You make valid points about the holodeck and counselor, but STC having a stronger TNG vibe than P2/NV? Really?
- P2/NV fx look like CGI from TNG/ Voyager.
- "The Child" is a TNG episode.
- TNG style Klingons?
- "Blood and Fire" could never have aired on 60's or 70's TV, but possibly TNG. FX were definitely TNG.
I enjoy P2/NV, but it comes off as a modern reboot and reminds me more of TNG or V'Ger era storytelling. Nothing wrong with it, but a nostalgic TOS vibe just isn't there for me whereas STC takes me back in time.
A couple of points, if I may. First, I don't think there's any question but that STC has the greatest visual fidelity of any of the fan films. It looks just like TOS in a lot of ways, and definitely more so than NV, which looks much more modern to me.
The thing is, looking more modern doesn't necessarily give me a TNG vibe. It doesn't necessarily give me a TOS vibe, but it's not a binary; not looking or feeling just like TOS does not mean looking and feeling like TNG.
As for the specific episodes you mentioned, yes "Blood and Fire" was originally pitched for TNG. "The Child" is a little more complicated, as it was apparently initially written for the original Phase II project, then adapted for TNG, and finally filmed in closer to its original form for NV. Neither it, nor "Kitumba" is really a TOS episode, but both draw their origins from the original Phase II.
In fact, that's the vibe I get most of the time from NV; it feels the way I imagine the aborted Phase II series would have more than anything else. It's not pure TOS, but it's not TNG either.
The thing with STC, at least for me, is that it does seem to draw elements directly from TNG, rather than indirectly, and the visual fidelity to TOS makes them really stand out more. I first noticed the TNG elements in "Pilgrim of Eternity," where it felt like the writers gave Kirk more of Picard's command style with the repeated conferences. Lolani had its own issues for me, many of which had to do with Kirk again seeming more like Picard than Kirk in command style. It's particularly jarring because of Vic's body language which really does nail Kirk.
As for "The White Iris," if that's not a TNG style piece I don't know what is. It not only includes both the Counselor and the Holodeck (TNG staples) but relies on them for the episode's resolution. It has the strongest TNG vibe of any TOS-era fan film I've ever seen. It literally could not have been filmed as written without TNG-specific elements that were never seen on screen in TOS during its original run, and I don't believe that to be true of any of NV's episodes.
Other people's mileage may vary, but for me STC has the strongest sense of "TNG in TOS clothing" of any fan series. It's the combination of the strongest TOS appearance in conjunction with explicit TNG elements that does it for me, and other films don't have that particular combination of factors in play.
What's amusing to me about the various origins of "The Child," is that it bears a STRIKING resemblance to the Space: 1999 episode "Alpha Child," released in 1975, a couple of years before Roddenberry started developing Phase II.
Honestly, I don't care much about fan films recreating a certain look or "vibe" of any particular series -- I just want to see fun/well-written stories set in this universe. That's why I prefer to see fan films in 16 x 9 rather than the old "square" format. If a particular fan group makes it part of their mission statement (as STC has done) to replicate the old series as closely as possible, that's fine -- I'm happy to accept that and enjoy what they produce. But in some ways it seems to limit creativity, and I'd rather see people let their imaginations run wild and show me some Star Trek like I've never seen before. Just my .02.
Well, that's part of the problem right there. So much of the drive seems to be that these groups don't want to (first) tell original stories or "some STAR TREK like [you've] never seen before." They just want to recreate TOS and play in that world and then try to fit whatever story they've chosen into that framework.
I still think "The Tressaurian Intersection" comes closest to a 1960's episode of any Trek fanfilm, from the story beats right down to the camera moves. And I don't say that because I worked on it.
I didn't work on it, but I agree with you.
I agree with you about EXETER. I was speaking unspecficially and perhaps inarticulately about PHASE II and CONTINUES, really.
I would have to agree with you, but that's not why I love it so much -- I love it because it's a rousing good story, really well-paced, with a great script, memorable characters, and a sense of adventure and fun. Just to be clear, I don't think Trek fan films have to be innovative or so far off the beaten path (though it would be refreshing if a few more of them were) -- I just want good stories, well-told.
I just wish someone would let poor Cutty have his cuppa coffee, lol.
TTI is a great story. I don't give a darn who is most true to TOS, who has a TNG 'vibe' or whatever. TTI is great Trek, as is WEAT, and a selection of other excellent fan films.
I watched TOS first run (yeah, I'm an old lady). Clearly, modern statistical re-examination of the raw data shows that the viewership of TOS was at least TWICE what was reported to NBC, and that it would NOT have been cancelled had NBC been given accurate data. Each Trek incarnation has its strong points, each has it weaknesses. The best of the Star Trek Fan productions are certainly worth the time it takes to watch them. And frankly, I enjoy a lot of the lower tier stuff, too. STR has readers who only watch Kid Trek, and others who only want comedy, so not everyone is looking for a professional type production.
Hoo boy, did we plan to have fun with that running gag in the unfilmed "The Atlantis Invaders"!
I truly wish that could have been filmed.
Me as well.
You're killin' us here, Maurice.
This would be news to me. What's your source?
NBC was receiving ratings information from at least three different ratings services (Trendex, Arbitron, and Nielsen), each of which had a different methodology for counting audiences. The idea that all three were wrong in a way that was more prejudicial towards Star Trek than other shows seems pretty farfetched to me.
Heh. Well, in short, in one scene I had Cutty get a cup, and he keeps almost sipping it, but stops short a few times because of the conversation he's having. Then, right as he puts it to his lips, he hears weapons fire, DROPS it, and runs out.
That was the first instance.
<sniff sniff> Doth my nostrils sense the putrid stench of Cushman's ratings malarky in yon ether?
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