Spoilers STAR TREK BEYOND

[Jedi_Master]

I've seen some real idiots on the trek media sites lately. Honestly, I'm glad the new movies appeal to casual fans or even just happy movie goers, because I no longer have a positive vision of my fellow Trekkies. I probably started losing it about 5-6 years ago(though the first hit it took was in 1990 or so when I started seeing internet comments about stng. I was so disappointed with my fellow trekkies). Ultimately it makes me less of a genre fan in general because then my thoughts turn to: It's only a movie or tv show...which is fine, that's all they are, but i can't help but think I got a little more out of it than most modern fans.

Admission: I wrote a more scathing review here of my fellow trekkers, but thought better of it. There's still lots of good ones whether I agree with them or not.

RAMA




How ironic, the movies that restored excitement are now "boring". http://www.theonion.com/video/trekkies-bash-new-star-trek-film-as-fun-watchable-14333

Don't give up man. The Internet is a funny place where people can adopt a persona that in real life doesn't even exist. I dare say that EVERY SINGLE one of those "I am going to boycott... this crap stinks.... I hate this....blah blah" folks you run into on the Trek sites will buy not one, but two tickets to ST: Beyond just so that they can complain about it later.

 

[Doom Shepherd]

Go buy a war vet a beer and tell him or her that. Double dog dare you. When a vet wells up in tears recalling the loss of a buddy in battle fifty years ago, "emo" is a big deal.

Yeah, I'd like to see that.

Also, my wife has PTSD from some pretty horrific childhood abuse. Don't call her emo unless the idea of spending the rest of a tragically brief life in agonizing pain is something you enjoy.

 

[M'Sharak]

Admission: I wrote a more scathing review here of my fellow trekkers, but thought better of it.

Good show.

Let's all remember to keep discussion focused on the movies and not on the fans (even though their opinions may differ greatly from mine or yours.)

 

[BigJake]

Spock's "nobody knows what it's like to have to hold my feelings in" spiel and later Khaan!!! rage is not unlike Kylo Ren's teen angst scenes and yelling and slicing up his room in Force Awakens.

Whether or not NuTrek overuses the "Spock getting emotional" trope -- which I think it does -- no, those things are not remotely comparable. (And someone has surely beaten me to pointing this out by now, but tangentially: PTSD has nothing to do with "being emo.")

 

[JWPlatt]

Admission: I wrote a more scathing review here of my fellow trekkers, but thought better of it. There's still lots of good ones whether I agree with them or not.

The usual way around that is to just blog it elsewhere and provide a link after giving it the "would this be embarrassing if I read it again in a week" test.

The big problem with "Khaaaaan" was that at that particular moment, Spock was emotionally compromised. He lost control. He wanted to kill Khan and avenge Kirk's death. Hardly logical. According to Star Trek 09, a commanding officer who is emotionally compromised should give up command. In '09, Spock recognised he was compromised so gave up command immediately. That didn't happen in into darkness. I think Spock's problem is rage outbursts. I do hope they tone it down for Beyond.

This paragraph represents the thought that the character is independent of the writer. My thinking is that when there's a "big problem," it's the writer - not the character.

 

[thumbtack]

I've learned there's always something even dumber awaiting on the next site I visit.

I got told on the TrekCore forum that "I hope you choke on your popcorn to spare us a decade worth of defending this boring crap online."

Only a decade? They've got Alibaba pushing nuTrek all across the Chinese interwebs now.

Don't give up man.

And as Orci posted about a half dozen times, hardcore internet trekkies are not an accurate representation of trekkies in general. I'm sure he got that from legitimate marketing research. And it does explain the blind eyes and deaf ears that CBS/Par turn toward hardcore internet trekkies.

 

[JKM]

Again: Is that still Spock though? Imagine Krypton never exploded, and Kal-El as Superman instead came to Earth as an evil conquerer, murdering the world leaders and becoming a dictator to the whole planet.

Would that still be Superman "just we are seeing him take on different challenges"??

The whole point of NuTrek is that it is an Alternate Universe, the funny thing about what you just asked about superman is exactly what happened in TOS when they went to the Mirror universe. Kirk was a blood thirsty violent dictator who kept his position by assassination. Yet no one questioned that he was still Kirk because it was an alternate reality. If you don't like what that means for a character the only thing I can suggest is not to watch it because you will always be disappointed.

Man, Star Trek fans are a classy bunch...

I got told on the TrekCore forum that "I hope you choke on your popcorn to spare us a decade worth of defending this boring crap online."

I feel special that I'm annoying enough that people want me to die.

I'm curious now to know which bit of crap you were defending. Was it STID?

 

[BillJ]

I'm curious now to know which bit of crap you were defending. Was it STID?

It was a reply to my comment, "Looks like it'll be a great time at the theater. Can't wait!"

http://trekcore.com/blog/2016/04/new-star-trek-beyond-photos-surface-online/

That "choke on popcorn" has since been deleted. But I still have the email notification from DISQUS.

 

[JKM]

I'm guessing referring to Star Trek Beyond? Yeah it is an unfortunate truth that a lot of the NuTrek haters don't have to see it to hate it if JJ is involved.

 

[M'Sharak]

**cough**

Let's all remember to keep discussion focused on the movies and not on the fans (even though their opinions may differ greatly from mine or yours.)

**cough**

 

[ricardocube]

Well at least its a good time to be a ghostbusters fan. They all hate Nubusters. They all agree. (I'm still going to see it though).

I can enjoy all the Trek universes. There's good and bad in each. They have to keep things fresh and unfortunately that involves changing things. Bring it on. If Star Trek stayed stale it wouldn't be here today.

 

[photon70]

So back to the movie, is anyone going to submit a video and enter?

 

[JKM]

So back to the movie, is anyone going to submit a video and enter?

I did a quick read of their requirements but exactly what are they asking for when they ask you to show how you've gone Beyond, do they mean as a Star Trek fan? Kinda a vague request. I can just imagine the kind of videos they'll get.

 

[mos6507]

First, he's graduated from the Academy, so that's a pointless observation.

In other words, in nuTrek, Starfleet Academy has low standards.

Second, "ultimately Starfleet is military" is rather reductionist.

It's also supported by 50 years of canon. And Marcus' behavior shows that militarism and strong chain-of-command thinking is alive and well in nuTrek.

Do you seriously believe there have been no significant changes in military protocol

So whining in a crisis is just a cultural evolution of a softer-gentler military?

Oh, and your understanding of PTSD is staggeringly incorrect.

I'm not the one who brought up the analogy.

 

[Nyotarules]

The "Khan" thing was just a bad call imo. The scene was actually working beautifully, then that happened and everyone in the theater was LAUGHING HYSTERICALLY.

I'm with RedLetterMedia on this. Having Spock act like a wild insane person and beating the badguy to (eventual) death just doesn't jive with me in this context. I think something much more beautiful and softer was needed to BALANCE the RAW DESTRUCTIVE EVIL that Khan was supposed to be. Having Spock WEEP for his friend, and then drawing strength from his other friends to go out there and BE THE CAPTAIN in Kirk's place, would have been a much stronger way to weave their two friendships together. Having Spock feel his pain, expressing it healthily, and then going back up to the bridge and coming up with a very Spock solution to stop Khan.
That's just me, though.

I share the same experience and viewpoint. Spock and Kirk did not come across as best buddies in STID, yes Kirk saved his life but if it was Sulu, Bones, Chekov, Scotty or any other crew member I believe he would have done the same thing. Spock 'dobbed' Kirk in his mission report and almost got him kicked out of the Academy, if it was not for Pike Kirk would have been demoted or asked to leave. There was no sign of a bromance at all. The 'KHANNNNN' scene was totally contrived and did not work for me, the movie turned into 'Carry on Enterprise' from then onward.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

First, he's graduated from the Academy, so that's a pointless observation.

In other words, in nuTrek, Starfleet Academy has low standards.

No, in exactly the words he's saying, Spock had not yet suffered the trauma that would lead to his PTSD (the destruction of his planet and the death of his mother in front of him) until after he had already graduated from Starfleet Academy, so the Academy's standards are irrelevant to the point being made.

Oh, and your understanding of PTSD is staggeringly incorrect.

I'm not the one who brought up the analogy.

The analogy is fine. Your profound ignorance of the mechanism and effects of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder combined with your callousness and overconfidence in describing something you clearly know very little about are the only problem here. Comparing PTSD to being "emo" is disrespectful in the extreme to the people who suffer from it, and you should educate yourself on the subject before you start making outrageous claims again. It's not just criticizing a silly movie at this point, you're criticizing actual people's experiences and suffering.

 

[Nyotarules]

nuSpock is definetely emotional unstable. While his original counterpart was the exact counterpart. It's not that original Spock didn't have any emotions. He just didn't let them dictate his actions. NuSpock is only superficial identifiable as Spock by his surface characteristics - his looks, his name, and his speaking pattern. But as it is I would feel unsafe in the same elvator as with him, since as soon as the elevator got stuck he will probably not be able to contain his anger...

And yes, Vulcans were rarely shown as being "better" than humans, but as "equal". IDIC and all that stuff, remember? NuVulcans are a bunch of racist bad guys ("Your human mother" my ass) that are clearly inferiout to humans in any way... A great indicator of the world view of the writers. (Although to be fair that startet in "Enterprise" and was only retconned in the 4th season. But it lead to many fan outcrys. By the time of the JJmovies the Vulcans as assholes were just accepted).

'Yesteryear' and 'Amok Time' showed that some Vulcans are clearly capable of being as racist/prejudiced as the next human. 'Enteprise 'was not the first to show this. Also take into consideration if we were an advanced species and came across a less advanced species I doubt we would have acted any differently (read a history book) than the Vulcans who met humanity at their worse.
Just after a few years after World War three when humanity almost wiped itself out of existence and has a long history of treating each other like shit. For Vulcans knowing what the galaxy was really like letting another set ofb savage barbarians into the galatic community must have filled them with dread. If I was Solkar I would turned tail and run back to Shi'kahr.

 

[DaveyNY]

For some reason I see a very young Treat Williams in that shot of Pine.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

I see a young Robert Pine from CHiPs.

Yeah, I can see the Treat Williams comparison there.

 

[Nyotarules]

If he's really that PTSD he never should have made it through the academy. Either you can do the job or you can't.

Remember that ultimately Starfleet is military. Military situations require you deal with death on a regular basis. As Kirk said in Trek II, how you deal with death is at least as important as how you deal with life. Spock isn't entitled to be emo (especially in a crisis situation) if he wants to serve competently in Starfleet.

I suppose seeing your planet blow up in front of you, experiencing the death of your mother and 6 billion other beings is an everyday Starfleet occurrence right? They probably have classes on it. 'How to get over PTSD you wimpish cadets'!