I must admit I didn't really get why Spock shouted Khaaaaaaaan other than to be homage TWOK. I really cringed in the cinema when that happened. In the context of the film it made absolutely no sense for him to lose control like that even if the person dying is Jim Kirk. Their friendship wasn't even properly established by that point. I hope we don't see too may outbursts of emotions unless he's due a Pon Farr.
Spoilers STAR TREK BEYOND
- Thread starter Khan 2.0
- Start date
Good call. I suppose this explains it somewhat, although he didn't shout anything after Pike died (Haaaaaarison!). I just hope that "Khaaaaaan" doesn't set a precedent in the next film after anyone dies. Although that would be amazingly funny.
Yet Kirk and McCoy seemed to have no ill effects. They tried to pass off bologna about Spock acting like Vulcans did 5,000 years ago. But I don't think that made any sense.
Why should he?
Jane Wyatt was 57 in "Journey To Babel" And I doubt she was playing that much older. Seems the right age to have a son in his early thirties and is a contemporary of Kirk
Foreigner? Vulcans are as much citizens of the Federation as human.
He shouldn't.
It also means that Sarek was almost twice her age. As he was 102 in "Journey to Babel".
It made sense to me, in the beginning of the film Spock couldn't understand why Kirk or anyone valued a life especially his life. When Kirk sacrificed his life for him again and the crew's; he finally understood, and felt really sad that it took this moment to understand Kirk loved him and he was his friend.
I didn't like the movie then, but that scene gave me goosebumps because when Spock screamed "Khan!" I knew he was going to open a can of Vulcan whooopASS on Sherlock. And he didn't disappoint. I thought the chase scene and the slugfest was the best part of movie.
Some of nuSpocks action make quite sense regarding his PTSD. Others ("Khaaan!") don't.
But my biggest problem is: PTDS-Spock is basically an entirely new character. Last of his people. In constant emotional turmoil. Brilliant, but emotional unstable. That's an interesting character right there. It just has nothing to do with Spock. The writers clearly wanted to create a new character. So why give him the name Spock? Its' purely because of the name recognition, isn't it?
@Nerys Myk
I had the impression Jane Wyatt had heavy make-up to make her look even more older. As for Spock being a "foreigner" (that's why I put that in exclamation marks): Star Trek usually flip flops around that a little. But while Vulcans are clearly Federation members, Starfleet seems to be a mostly human/Earth based organization. I don't know the exact real-world rules if you want to join the military of another (allied) nation, but I guess you need a bit longer to reach the rank of an XO. Also he already looks the oldest, and since Vulcans live longer, it must have needed even more time for him to age to this point. Again, that's not backed up by evidence, but that's the reason why I always assumed Spock was a bit older than the rest of the cast.
EDIT:
In the new promo shots from the movie, Zachary Quinto seems to have pulled a Shatner and has quite added a few pounds in the general region of his belly
But my biggest problem is: PTDS-Spock is basically an entirely new character. Last of his people. In constant emotional turmoil. Brilliant, but emotional unstable. That's an interesting character right there. It just has nothing to do with Spock. The writers clearly wanted to create a new character. So why give him the name Spock? Its' purely because of the name recognition, isn't it?
@Nerys Myk
I had the impression Jane Wyatt had heavy make-up to make her look even more older. As for Spock being a "foreigner" (that's why I put that in exclamation marks): Star Trek usually flip flops around that a little. But while Vulcans are clearly Federation members, Starfleet seems to be a mostly human/Earth based organization. I don't know the exact real-world rules if you want to join the military of another (allied) nation, but I guess you need a bit longer to reach the rank of an XO. Also he already looks the oldest, and since Vulcans live longer, it must have needed even more time for him to age to this point. Again, that's not backed up by evidence, but that's the reason why I always assumed Spock was a bit older than the rest of the cast.
EDIT:
In the new promo shots from the movie, Zachary Quinto seems to have pulled a Shatner and has quite added a few pounds in the general region of his belly
Last edited:
Yes. This.
Like I said, he had been holding back for more than a year. Khan didn't directly kill Kirk, but he was the cause of a lot of suffering, death and destruction and was about to bring more. Spock opened up when he saw his only real 'friend' die, without the comfort of just being able to touch him.
If Marcus had never found Khan, none of it would ever have happened. The London bombing, Pike's death, the Vengeance and the war she was engineered to bring, the Enterprise crippled with several crew dead, including Jim. Spock blamed him, and just let the pain and anger take over. And when Vulcan's are angry, they're *really* angry, there's no logic motivating them anymore.
Plus the movie implies Spock is still dealing with the trauma from the destruction of Vulcan and his mom's death.
The "Khan" thing was just a bad call imo. The scene was actually working beautifully, then that happened and everyone in the theater was LAUGHING HYSTERICALLY.
I'm with RedLetterMedia on this. Having Spock act like a wild insane person and beating the badguy to (eventual) death just doesn't jive with me in this context. I think something much more beautiful and softer was needed to BALANCE the RAW DESTRUCTIVE EVIL that Khan was supposed to be. Having Spock WEEP for his friend, and then drawing strength from his other friends to go out there and BE THE CAPTAIN in Kirk's place, would have been a much stronger way to weave their two friendships together. Having Spock feel his pain, expressing it healthily, and then going back up to the bridge and coming up with a very Spock solution to stop Khan.
That's just me, though.
I'm with RedLetterMedia on this. Having Spock act like a wild insane person and beating the badguy to (eventual) death just doesn't jive with me in this context. I think something much more beautiful and softer was needed to BALANCE the RAW DESTRUCTIVE EVIL that Khan was supposed to be. Having Spock WEEP for his friend, and then drawing strength from his other friends to go out there and BE THE CAPTAIN in Kirk's place, would have been a much stronger way to weave their two friendships together. Having Spock feel his pain, expressing it healthily, and then going back up to the bridge and coming up with a very Spock solution to stop Khan.
That's just me, though.
I don't recall her being in any sort of old age make up. She was the age I am now, and probably looked younger than I do.
Though, they did use soft focus, but that was true of all female guest stars. Mark Lenard was made to look older by adding grey to his hair. He was 14 years younger than Wyatt and only 7 years older than Nimoy.Spock's age is established in "Yesteryear".
Making Spock 37 at the time of that episode
Starfleet looks mostly human because the make up budget didn't allow for multiple humanoid aliens every episode. Most non-humans on TOS looked just like humans.So imagine every third "human" is really an alien.
Spock is about a man torn between two worlds.
But would have people complaining if he was exactly like Prime Spock. They would be saying that Abrams and Company didn't have a creative bone in his body.
Damned if you do... damned if you don't.
^^
What are you talking about? I do believe that opinion is still out and about on the Interwebs.
And again, there needs to be a recognition that Spock is younger and has PTSD. Treating him like Prime Spock is asking for failure, in my opinion. I would rather see Spock, with the help of his friends, like in Star Trek IV. If there is one facet of Abrams Trek that I will always appreciate Abrams Trek for is the fact that consequences are actually allowed to play out rather than wrapping it up neatly at the end.
What are you talking about? I do believe that opinion is still out and about on the Interwebs.
And again, there needs to be a recognition that Spock is younger and has PTSD. Treating him like Prime Spock is asking for failure, in my opinion. I would rather see Spock, with the help of his friends, like in Star Trek IV. If there is one facet of Abrams Trek that I will always appreciate Abrams Trek for is the fact that consequences are actually allowed to play out rather than wrapping it up neatly at the end.
And then you run into on the nose writing. The whole exchange in the Millennium Falcon ripoff vehicle was too on the nose.
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