"Star Trek Begins" - The 'Origins' Film Discussion
- Thread starter TerryTrek
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At this point, we know very little, although I'm pretty intrigued by the idea of a 'creation of starfleet' idea, plus some kind of First Contact plotline. At this point I don't really care about if this is some random timeline or whatever, I just want an interesting story. It's incredibly early days, and we still know basically nothing, but there's nothing here that's automatically turning me off of the idea.
Could go either way.
Could go either way.
Wow, looks like this one might actually happen. I expected it to vanish now the sale to Skydance is happening.
Also, London?? I'm gonna get on the train and gatecrash this movie
This is pretty great.
If, and this is a pretty big "if," if Skydance wants to reboot Star Trek, then this is obviously the way to do it. And I'm here for it. Reboot it. Start over and make it better.
It seems like kind of the way to go too. A direct sequel and continuation of the Star Trek (2009) movies is fine, but a reboot feels like a better option at this point, in my opinion. And possibly making a movie on Star Trek: Discovery or Strange New Worlds is fine too, I suppose, but you can just put something like that on Paramount+. It would feel rather odd to me to put something like that in the theater.
Anyway, we'll see what they do. I say use this as an opportunity to reboot everything and build from the ground up, and tie the TV with the movies. And create a third timeline if that serves whatever story they want to tell best.
I'm still confused about the 'reboot' nature of this idea. Based only on what has been presented to me, it seems that this is supposed to be a film taking place in the Kelvin Timeline. But how can that be? That timeline was created in 2233 when Nero went back in time. So any 'origin story' taking place 'decades' before the 2009 film would invariably also take place in the prime timeline. Which would conflict with ST:FC and ENT.
To be fair, that origin of the Kelvin timeline is just the crew speculating. It works much better if it was just a parallel universe all along, and the red matter black hole took Nero to a different universe as well as back in time.
But let’s just wait and see. We don’t really know anything yet.
Then how do you explain Kovich knowing about how the KT came to be? Or…
Wesley Crusher in Prodigy stating the ‘Narada incursion,’ which was implying that the KT was created because of Nero?
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I would assume an origin movie would be about how Starfleet came to be (and how first contact and whatever else transpired) in the Kelvin timeline. We're introduced to the Kelvin timeline in 2233, but what happened before 2233 in the Kelvin timeline? How did they get to that point? That I assume would be the origin movie.
The "decades before" description does seem to be a little off to me. The Hollywood Reporter said...
If it's "likely around modern times," then that's a couple of centuries not decades.
So I would guess this movie would take place in the late-21st century or sometime in the 22nd century in the Kelvin timeline. And it would do the "creation of the Starfleet and humankind’s first contact with alien life" and so on and so forth.
Also, the Kelvin timeline because the new boss of New Paramount (which I guess is what they're calling it) is David Ellison. And his Skydance of course co-produced Into Darkness and Beyond. (Into Darkness, the highest grossing Star Trek movie ever, and Beyond, the movie that came after it... )
No, but I assume he's comfortable in the Kelvin timeline sandbox. And now that he owns the company he may want to continue playing in that sandbox.
You of course could just as easily do an origin movie/story for the main timeline, but like you said, they've kind of done that a little already.
But as I mentioned before, the timeline before Nero's incursion in 2233 was the original prime timeline. Therefore anything that happened prior to 2233 in the Kelvin timeline also happened in the prime timeline in the exact same way. Therefore...
We have two conflicting sources here. One says 'decades before (the events of the 2009 film),' and the other says 'likely around modern times,' which I'm taking to mean the 2020's. Which would not be 'decades' before the 2009 film, or even remotely close to first contact and the formation of Starfleet (between 2063 and the 2100's.)
Again, the events of ST:FC in 2063 would be exactly the same in the KT as in the prime timeline, as would the events of ENT, which already showed Starfleet in existence and the years leading up to the formation of the Federation.
Also, the Kelvin timeline because the new boss of New Paramount (which I guess is what they're calling it) is David Ellison. And his Skydance of course co-produced Into Darkness and Beyond. (Into Darkness, the highest grossing Star Trek movie ever, and Beyond, the movie that came after it... )
No, but I assume he's comfortable in the Kelvin timeline sandbox. And now that he owns the company he may want to continue playing in that sandbox.
You of course could just as easily do an origin movie/story for the main timeline, but like you said, they've kind of done that a little already.
Again, whether he's 'comfortable in the Kelvin timeline sandbox' doesn't really matter. If it's an origin story of the birth of the Federation, then it would be the same no matter if it took place in the KT or the prime timeline. Unless the story is planning on deviating from what we've seen before, in which case it would be a reboot, not a KT origin story.
Wonder if they are going to completely reboot Star Trek enterprise and give it a new spin?
They could easily fudge it so it was created by Narada but has it's own past as well as future.
Not really: if you change the future you also change the time travel events in it, which don’t happen or happen differently, thus also changing the past!
"Star Trek Baggins".
After thousands of years, Bilbo wakes from magic suspended animation, and leads a Fellowship of Star Ships to destroy Planet Mount Doom.
After thousands of years, Bilbo wakes from magic suspended animation, and leads a Fellowship of Star Ships to destroy Planet Mount Doom.
I forgot about those tbh! Good points.
But it can be handwaved away by talk of the cascading impact of different temporal incursions as @jackoverfull says.
Of course. It's all fiction so they can make up whatever shit they want. I, however, can only work with what I'm given, so that scenario doesn't make much sense to me logically, based on the time travel 'rules' given in the movie and show.
See above.
Yeah, I don't think there's going to be any rules to this.
No, obviously whatever story they come up with that happened prior to 2233 is how everything will have happened.
Also, I saw that you mentioned logic. This is Star Trek. It's not hard science fiction. It's space fantasy or space opera, take your pick. So logic doesn't really factor into much, I don't think. They have warp drives that are enabled by make-believe crystals, and they have talking humanoid aliens. Applying logic to Star Trek is somewhat illogical, is it not.
You just kind of go with it, because if you analyze it too much it all falls apart.
To be perfectly honest, yes, I would assume this would be a total reboot of Star Trek.
Just the idea of doing an origin movie for Star Trek would lead me to believe they're rebooting the franchise. Because it's kind of a weird thing to do for something that's been running for 60 years. And if you don't really have any movie ideas, then start everything over with an origin. It's kind of an easy and obvious thing to do.
There's a reason we haven't had a movie in almost 10 years. What are you going to do it on? And whatever you come up with, couldn't you just do a 2 or 3-part television episode? Does it have to be a movie that you put in the theater?
Also, yes, I fully agree, it doesn't matter if an origin movie took place in the Kelvin timeline or the prime timeline. But also like I mentioned, and like what you said, they've kind of already done major parts of the origin in the prime timeline. So if you were to do an origin movie and specify that it's set in the prime timeline, then there's established things that you have to check off in order to not contradict anything that's already in place. And there's nothing wrong with checking off boxes, but there are other ways of going about things.
An origin movie set in the Kelvin timeline obviously gives you free rein to do whatever you want. It's an alternate reality. And there's no rule that states that it's an exact copy of the prime timeline until 2233, is there? Likewise, there's no real scientific rules for alternate realities is there? So there you go.
But yeah, I would guess that this movie would be a full-on reboot of Star Trek. It seems like kind of a weird thing to do, but who knows. And reboots sometimes work. Mission: Impossible comes to mind. It was a television series that ran for seven years and I guess did okay. And now it's a movie franchise that does okay too.
Actually, there are several unused ST4 scripts. Take a page from the development of TWOK and take the best of each script and make a movie out of them. Maybe even a two-part movie.
The big holdup has been cash, which no longer seems to be problem with Paramount’s merger with Skydance. As retaining the Kelvin cast for one more movie is expensive.
A sequel in the Kelvin timeline also grants you that freedom. As do standalone movies.
There's a deleted scene where one of the Barries calls bullshit on the random spaghetti theory. He thinks that Bruce also tried to save his mommy, which means that anytime someone changes time, every other time traveler also changes time too. No one is a surgeon, it's always a bloodbath.
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