Star Trek: Axanar

[BillJ]

People need to stop pretending that there's anything plausibly realistic about Star Trek and then trying to use that to bash whatever version of it they happen to personally dislike. They're certainly not fooling anyone.

This.

 

[Deckerd]

I like to think that Klingon society is a lot more complex and dynamic than what we are commonly shown. It would pretty much have to be.

Not necessarily. Klingons are not human. I prefer to think that they really are like their Beowulf counterparts; warlike with no capacity for anything else. If they're not fighting anyone else they're perfectly at ease with fighting each other.

 

[BillJ]

I did not mean for the question to come across as hostile. My profound and sincere apologies if that is how it was read.

I'm sure they're all big boys and girls over at Axanar. If your question offended them, then they should get out of the business now.

 

[137th Gebirg]

I like to think that Klingon society is a lot more complex and dynamic than what we are commonly shown. It would pretty much have to be.

Not necessarily. Klingons are not human. I prefer to think that they really are like their Beowulf counterparts; warlike with no capacity for anything else. If they're not fighting anyone else they're perfectly at ease with fighting each other.

Sure, it's possible, but it would almost seem to me that such behavior would be ultimately self-defeating and could honestly lead to their self-destruction long before they had the capability of space travel. Such a blind penchant for waging war would almost necessitate the existence of the Hur'q or Kinshaya as an external influence, with ships like the D-7 actually having been captured from them by the Klingons after a system-wide uprising. They would have almost had to steal other people's tech just to get out of their own gravity well - like warlike Pakleds! Otherwise, they would simply be killing each other before they ever got a chance to invent their first warp core.

If that didn't happen, and they did organize and allocate civilized resources to technological development, then there would then necessarily be some additional depth to the Klingon society aside from "Hulk SMASH!!!"

Yeah, it was a weird bouillabaisse of outlaw biker + berserker Viking + Japanese Samurai (with an honor code roughly analogous to Bushido), and with a little Scottish Highlander and a dash of heavy metal guitarist thrown into the mix. Kind of one-dimensional and directionless in many cases. It wasn't until the "big 3" original Klingons showed up on DS9 that you really got a sense of what they could have been.

I get flamed almost every time I bring this up, but I have a suspicion that J. Michael Straczynski's depiction of the Minbari race was basically his take on "What the Klingons SHOULD have been."

Warrior caste that never backs down from a fight and has their own way of doing things? Check.

Stealth technology? Check.

Complicated love-hate relationship with humanity evolving from conflict to mutual respect to eventual friendship? Check.

Affinity for melee combat? Check.

I like to think that Klingon society is a lot more complex and dynamic than what we are commonly shown. It would pretty much have to be.

Heh... not only am I not going to flame you, I will agree with you AND give you another earlier example! I've said the exact same thing about the Borellian Nomen from TOS Battlestar Galactica (minus the stealth tech, of course). They exhibited the same notions you did about the Minbari/Klingon connection, long before either of those two races existed in their current forms.

In fact, there's also a little bit of Borellian Nomen in the Narn, as exhibited by G'Kar's bodyguard, T'Lon, who had to shed blood if he drew his sword. Here's the Nomen version:

The Borallian [sic] Warrior's ethic was centered around a long knife; this knife meant certain death for outsiders who seen one unsheathed, since a Nomen would prefer suicide to seeing the knife sheathed unbloodied. This tradition, which "stems from a respect for naked violence and a belief that it is not to be employed or threatened lightly", made way to the laser bola.

 

[TerryMcIntosh]

The idea of breaking down a feature film and shooting it in four separate parts rather than all at once strikes me as being very foolhardy with respect to costs. Rather than building, lighting, rigging and using the sets for their scenes then moving on, this would be prolonging the production (and, I assume the need for funding) for the film.

So I guess the non-hostile version of this question would be: "Hi, Terry. Can you explain why Axanar split its production into four acts, and how that affects financing?"

If that's what Alec wrote then that's fairly new news to me.

We had been kicking around for a long time about filming it all at once and then doing a dual-format release... something along the lines of the way BSG's Blood and Chrome was released. We'd release an act every week (or however long) on YouTube, but the film would also be released (especially to donors via Digital Download and Blu-ray) as a single unbroken narrative just as any standard film is.

As for what Alec may be saying or thinking with something like 'we'll shoot acts of the film based on what the funds allow', I'll have to defer to him, since I know nothing about that (and I'm rather irritated about seemingly being out of the loop a bit there, truth be told, but, I'm not the boss and what the boss says goes!). =)

 

[Tosk]

The idea of breaking down a feature film and shooting it in four separate parts rather than all at once strikes me as being very foolhardy with respect to costs. Rather than building, lighting, rigging and using the sets for their scenes then moving on, this would be prolonging the production (and, I assume the need for funding) for the film.

So I guess the non-hostile version of this question would be: "Hi, Terry. Can you explain why Axanar split its production into four acts, and how that affects financing?"

If that's what Alec wrote then that's fairly new news to me.

We had been kicking around for a long time about filming it all at once and then doing a dual-format release... something along the lines of the way BSG's Blood and Chrome was released. We'd release an act every week (or however long) on YouTube, but the film would also be released (especially to donors via Digital Download and Blu-ray) as a single unbroken narrative just as any standard film is.

As for what Alec may be saying or thinking with something like 'we'll shoot acts of the film based on what the funds allow', I'll have to defer to him, since I know nothing about that (and I'm rather irritated about seemingly being out of the loop a bit there, truth be told, but, I'm not the boss and what the boss says goes!). =)

I think the question was based on the indiegogo description...

"We can make Axanar one act at a time, if needed (although we'd prefer to make it all at once!).

So, we are setting our first goal at $330,000. There will be stretch goals at $660,000, $ 990,000 and $1,320,000, with each stretch goal meaning another epsiode will get made.

If we raise the entire $1,320,000, then we will have what we need to make all of Axanar. (Anything above that will just make it better.)"

It's also the reason I worried about what would happen if the film were partially funded and started filming and then money ran out.What do you do with half a movie?

 

[BigJake]

Ah, so it actually looks like that initial "proceeding in phases" possibility is probably irrelevant now.

 

[Amaris]

What I like about Richard Hatch's Kharn is that he seems to be playing him as a proper Klingon Thought Admiral from The Final Reflection, something that I found later interpretations of the race sorely missed.

Looking forward seeing more of him.

Yes, this! Kharn seems to be a kind of warrior poet; a brilliant tactician who will decimate his enemy, while still respecting him, and even try to understand him. I'm tired of one dimensional Klingons, so this is a nice change of pace. I've got all fingers crossed on this one.

 

[Harvey]

Ah, so it actually looks like that initial "proceeding in phases" possibility is probably irrelevant now.

What makes you say that?

The latest fundraiser is at $238K. That's a hefty sum, but they've got a long way to go before they reach $1.32 million (the stated goal to finish the movie).

 

[Amaris]

It makes me wish very hard that I had money.

 

[DCR]

I think they're simply acknowledging the fact that even though it is more expensive overall, sometimes it is simply more practical to raise money in smaller amounts. It's not the best option, but it's sometimes the only option.

 

[TerryMcIntosh]

So I guess the non-hostile version of this question would be: "Hi, Terry. Can you explain why Axanar split its production into four acts, and how that affects financing?"

If that's what Alec wrote then that's fairly new news to me.

We had been kicking around for a long time about filming it all at once and then doing a dual-format release... something along the lines of the way BSG's Blood and Chrome was released. We'd release an act every week (or however long) on YouTube, but the film would also be released (especially to donors via Digital Download and Blu-ray) as a single unbroken narrative just as any standard film is.

As for what Alec may be saying or thinking with something like 'we'll shoot acts of the film based on what the funds allow', I'll have to defer to him, since I know nothing about that (and I'm rather irritated about seemingly being out of the loop a bit there, truth be told, but, I'm not the boss and what the boss says goes!). =)

I think the question was based on the indiegogo description...

"We can make Axanar one act at a time, if needed (although we'd prefer to make it all at once!).

So, we are setting our first goal at $330,000. There will be stretch goals at $660,000, $ 990,000 and $1,320,000, with each stretch goal meaning another epsiode will get made.

If we raise the entire $1,320,000, then we will have what we need to make all of Axanar. (Anything above that will just make it better.)"

It's also the reason I worried about what would happen if the film were partially funded and started filming and then money ran out.What do you do with half a movie?

I see what you mean there, Tosk, for sure. My interpretation of that quote is that it's a hypothetical. We COULD do that, sure. We could do a lot of things. But, the plan is to make the film in one shot and release it as I stated above. Then again, plans can and do change, especially at Axanar HQ.

 

[Karzak]

So I guess the non-hostile version of this question would be: "Hi, Terry. Can you explain why Axanar split its production into four acts, and how that affects financing?"

If that's what Alec wrote then that's fairly new news to me.

We had been kicking around for a long time about filming it all at once and then doing a dual-format release... something along the lines of the way BSG's Blood and Chrome was released. We'd release an act every week (or however long) on YouTube, but the film would also be released (especially to donors via Digital Download and Blu-ray) as a single unbroken narrative just as any standard film is.

As for what Alec may be saying or thinking with something like 'we'll shoot acts of the film based on what the funds allow', I'll have to defer to him, since I know nothing about that (and I'm rather irritated about seemingly being out of the loop a bit there, truth be told, but, I'm not the boss and what the boss says goes!). =)

I think the question was based on the indiegogo description...

"We can make Axanar one act at a time, if needed (although we'd prefer to make it all at once!).

So, we are setting our first goal at $330,000. There will be stretch goals at $660,000, $ 990,000 and $1,320,000, with each stretch goal meaning another epsiode will get made.

If we raise the entire $1,320,000, then we will have what we need to make all of Axanar. (Anything above that will just make it better.)"

It's also the reason I worried about what would happen if the film were partially funded and started filming and then money ran out.What do you do with half a movie?

I quoted this passage from the IndieGogo page myself this morning in my initial post asking about this. I assume since you're just skimming the thread now Terry that you likely missed it. Either way, thanks for addressing the issue.

As for it being a hypothetical scenario, why would you guys need to do this? Wouldn't it make more sense to just shoot the whole film at once?

 

[GSchnitzer]

I think they're simply acknowledging the fact that even though it is more expensive overall, sometimes it is simply more practical to raise money in smaller amounts. It's not the best option, but it's sometimes the only option.

I think you're right. It would be far less expensive if I could just pay for my house all at once instead of paying for it over thirty years and having to pay so much interest. But I just don't have all the money I need now.

 

[Karzak]

Ah! I see. Thanks for that explanation.

(This is what i get for quoting and replying before reading the entire thread.)

 

[BigJake]

The latest fundraiser is at $238K. That's a hefty sum, but they've got a long way to go before they reach $1.32 million (the stated goal to finish the movie).

My bad, you're right.

 

[Phantom]

I do find it funny that many folks talk about facts and objectivity but then are in bitter denial when someone that actually works in the industry comes in and shoots them down.

Arugment from Authority fallacy. Tom's assessment of the material is not more credible than mine via any supposed "virtue" inferred from his professional status.

Nope, you misunderstand.

It's about the poster knowing more about what they're talking about than you do.

I understand perfectly. You're defending Bill and Tom by agreeing with their argument that industry insider opinions are intrinsically correct because of them "knowing more" than a mere "fan" does.

You're a snob agreeing with other snobs, in other words.

 

[Amaris]

I think they're simply acknowledging the fact that even though it is more expensive overall, sometimes it is simply more practical to raise money in smaller amounts. It's not the best option, but it's sometimes the only option.

I think you're right. It would be far less expensive if I could just pay for my house all at once instead of paying for it over thirty years and having to pay so much interest. But I just don't have all the money I need now.

Yep, though the nice thing about this method is that there's no interest. You just pay what you actually need to pay. I wish that would work with houses, and cars!

 

[Karzak]

Arugment from Authority fallacy. Tom's assessment of the material is not more credible than mine via any supposed "virtue" inferred from his professional status.

Nope, you misunderstand.

It's about the poster knowing more about what they're talking about than you do.

I understand perfectly. You're defending Bill and Tom by agreeing with their argument that industry insider opinions are intrinsically correct because of them "knowing more" than a mere "fan" does.

I don't think it's a matter of what's "correct" or not. It's a matter of practical experience and knowledge of how the industry works and the work that is done in it. Unless you or I work in that field, no matter how much you think you or I know about it, we just don't have the practical experience to comment beyond a certain point on the issue. That's not to dismiss our opinions, but our credibility on it will only carry us so far. To dismiss the expertise of those who actually do the work is short-sighted and, frankly, rude.

You're a snob agreeing with other snobs, in other words.

This is also rude, and in my opinion, entirely uncalled for.

 

[Maurice]

Movies are expensive to make. I've been budgeting a fairly modest short subject and, once you actually start paying people and have a real crew, the $$$ required goes up really fast. This is why it's essential to get a good producer who can figure out how to do it economically and efficiently, otherwise the cash flows out of your pockets like water through a sieve.

And, as to the subject of "authority" opinions, that depends on what you're talking about. A professional D.P. is going to know the subject of cinematography at a level 80 stories above a dilettante or fan, obviously, but that same D.P. may know no more about screenwriting or costume design than any layman. Informed opinion and mere opinion are not the same thing.

And, yes, the "snob" comment was unwarranted.