Star Trek: Axanar

Discussion in 'Fan Productions' started by Linnear, Sep 24, 2012.

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  1. therealsb63

    therealsb63 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    doubleohfive, have you come to realize since you wrote that review, that "Prelude To Axanar" is just that, a prelude, a lead-in piece, and not a trailer? Have you also realized why for the most part, the piece is "people sitting around talking" is because it's presented as a documentary, as opposed to the standard "you are there" approach that the actual film will take?
     
  2. doubleohfive

    doubleohfive Fleet Admiral

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    Of course I know that.

    I knew that when I watched the film and I knew it when I sat down to write the review.... which is why I addressed exactly that point...WAIT FOR IT...in my review.
     
  3. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    As much as I enjoyed Axanar, I find it bewildering that many of Red Omega's links talk about it keeping Trek's "core values" when it's a war story about ships blowing up other ships. What did I miss?
    Yep. It's great for what it is, but in the end it's talking heads and a spectacular VFX reel. There is no plot beyond "we made a new ship, they made a new ship, pew, pew!" and no emotional connection to the characters or setting. Comments like this...
    ...are ridiculous. The first ten minutes of Star Trek (2009) alone are infinitely superior.


    Also, while on this topic, it's worth mentioning that Axanar dropped "Star Trek" from their title last month. They claim on Facebook CBS didn't force them to.
     
  4. Sevenar

    Sevenar Cadet Newbie

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    I'm a staunch supporter of Axanar because it is simply the best-looking, best-acted, best-edited, and best-scored independent Trek production to date. Is it perfect? No. But it has come closer to being a broadcast-ready production than anything else not made by the studio.

    In defense of Alec Peters' acting, remember that the documentary takes place ten years after the titular battle, so it's quite natural that its hero would be lionized by his comrades in arms, with his exploits exaggerated by everyone--except Garth. This was a conscious character choice, and a good one, for it sets up Garth to be a sympathetic, admirable, reluctant hero way before Kirk ever takes command, and allows Mad Lord Garth to be the antithetical bookend in Whom Gods Destroy. So what if it's a "vanity" project? Sometimes, if you want the job done right, you have to do it yourself. Seen in that light, I'm quite willing to cut Mr. Peters some slack in the acting department, primarily because he isn't going around with a big red "S" on his character's chest, like so many other "vanity" producers have done before.


    Granted, the weak link in Prelude was indeed the dialogue, or rather, the monologue, since we never see two characters speak to each other, but that is, at least, supportive of the History-Channel documentary motif. And, yes, it does use the cliché "old <insert Earth/Klingon here> term for..." twice(!), but those are minor compared to the strengths of the story overall. The plot is sound, the pacing is excellent, and the editing is tight. I honestly cannot say any other independent Trek film has achieved all three of those in one episode. Throw in excellent visual effects, infographics, narration, and music, and Axanar truly rises toward the top of the Trek tower on its own merits.


    Your opinion may vary, certainly. But magnifying minor and correctable faults above the plainly-obvious strengths of the film is hardly the basis for a fair review. Personal rancor imparts an ugly bias that Trek fandom simply doesn't need, now or ever.
     
  5. Maurice

    Maurice Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Ahem.

    This is a bulletin board where the point is to discuss things. Some of us like it when others write reviews, even when we strongly disagree. Let's revel in IDICiness of differing opinions, and don't feel precious or defensive. If doubleoh or anyone else writes anything that crosses the line from critique of the work to personal attacks I am the first person to call them on it. The only words I'd quibble with in the review under discussion would be "vanity project", but then most fan films with captains who are the prime movers of the project are just that. Nothing else he says about the film is mean or wrong. "Prelude" IS just a teaser, as he acknowledges. And, IMO it isn't a great film because it's not really a film; it's a big ol and very successful marketing hook. You and lots of other people may think it's the best thing since kafarian apples, but others do not, and it's ALL subjective.
     
  6. Duane

    Duane Captain Captain

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    I don't know if this adds to the discussion, but remember that the framework from Prelude was put into place before the Kickstarter, and it was meant to be a one or two day shoot with a budget of $10,000 or so. When the Kickstarter raised much more money, they kept the basic framework of the project in place but added more professionals to the production and ended up spending the entire $100,000.

    I agree with Maurice that Prelude is a very successful marketing tool, and it accomplished the goal of raising a lot of funds for a film. I don't know if the film will be good or great but I'm very much looking forward to it. I suspect with the talent they have, if the script is great the end product will be at least very, very good.
     
  7. Maurice

    Maurice Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Ah, now the truth is out. Alec Peters posted on the Facebook axanarfansgroup and asked people specifically to come here and and post on behalf of the show and to go after doubleoh and added "Brownie Points for those who do."

    I've notified the moderators (and gotten a screenshot of the post in the event it gets deleted).
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2014
  8. GSchnitzer

    GSchnitzer Co-Executive Producer Moderator

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    So far, so good. People expressing a diversity of opinions with little acrimony. Perfect.

    Will stay vigilant to those who comment primarily to accumulate said brownie points.

    Thanks in advance to everyone for staying cool .
     
  9. Barbreader

    Barbreader Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    First, the mods ban him, but they permit discussion OF HIM by the very people who attacked him and to whom he was responding, to continue. He can't respond himself to defend his work, so, months and months later, as the attacks here continue, he asks his fans to speak for his production. Yes, he calls 005 a 'troll.' Yet he cautions the fans to speak positively, not to attack anyone here. He did NOT "ask people... to go after doubleoh" but cautioned against it.

    This is somehow unfair or wrong? The wrong was committed here, by this board. I PMed against the permanent ban to the moderator who dismissed me as an idiot. She proved the permanent ban was fair by equating it with a ban lasting a few weeks. So now this idiot is out in public. I guess I can get banned for this. If so, I rarely say much here anyway. I usually try to only chime in with information. And I've gotten threatened in PMs by some of the people here when I dared disagree.

    This response to this board's behavior is NOTHING. I've had people try to crash or plant malware in Star Trek Reviewed because they didn't like what I said about their production (in one case, an overall positive comment with a few quibbles) or how I said it (they objected NOT to my point but to my wording).

    This board can dish it out, but can't take it.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2014
  10. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Admiral Admiral

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    Well, Maurice, it's good that you got a screenshot, because there is clearly contention about what was posted.

    @Barbreader: Since you don't specifically clarify, it's not really clear what "attacks" you are referring to, although if you believe that behavior is "NOTHING" unless it rises to the level of planting malware, I have to wonder whether your use of the word attack is hyperbole. Are you saying that doubleohfive's review was an attack?

     
  11. Tom

    Tom Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Welcome to Trekbbs! Bias is our middle name! ;)
     
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  12. therealsb63

    therealsb63 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I'm sorry, but if you did know that, your knowledge of such didn't come through when I read...your review.

    If so, why would you consider it a trailer?
     
  13. therealsb63

    therealsb63 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    And a good thing you did, Maurice, that way anything Alec said won't be misrepresented, as your remark above does. As Barb mentioned, he does not tell people to "go after doubleoh."

    Just for informational purposes and in the interests of fairness, what was it that Alec did that was so bad it earned him a ban?
     
  14. Tallguy

    Tallguy Commodore Commodore

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    I know! He should be writing them for filthy filthy money! :rofl:
     
  15. Sevenar

    Sevenar Cadet Newbie

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    Yes, I did come here because of Alec's Facebook post. I didn't hide the fact that I support the production, but I am not a member of the production team itself. That being said, I don't really see the point of continuing to attack Alec Peters over Axanar. If Prelude had turned out to be just another fan film shot in someone's garage with cardboard sets and Halloween costumes, then no one would've given it a second glance. But because Axanar is successful, now it gets unwarranted criticism from self-appointed experts. It's fairly hypocritical to accuse a person of creating a vanity project while simultaneously stroking one's own ego by way of the process--it's called armchair quarterbacking.

    But even if it were all true, even if it's all just a big self-serving money grab, it still wouldn't alter the fact that Prelude is amazingly well-done for an independent production. Now, it may not be everyone's cup of tea, and that's perfectly fine. Lots of official Trek material weren't mine either, but I didn't seek to burn down the sets even after the hundredth time I heard someone instantly fix a problem by completely rebuilding a useless ship's system to emit some sort of parti-plasma-field-beam of DeusExMachina particles.


    Tl;dr: Make something better, if you hate Axanar, but don't be a hipster d-bag if you can't.
     
  16. Marsden

    Marsden Commodore Commodore

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    I just want to say, I read doubleohfive's review, and while I disagree with most of it, I found it to be a constructive review. It made me think critically about the whole endeavor. I was so excited and happy to see something that appealed to me I wasn't thinking critically but just wanting more. I appreciated for what it is, and that's all. I find many times 005 posts and I disagree with what is expressed, but the right to express it should never be impinged and many times even though I disagree, I appreciate the other perspective.

    I'm not defending 005, he doesn't need it and judging by his past posts wouldn't want or ask for it. I'm just adding my own opinion of what is being said here.
     
  17. Duane

    Duane Captain Captain

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    I disagree with a lot of reviews I read. The problem with this one is timing. I wish the focus and discussion was on Mind-Sifter.

    Prelude is what it is. Axanar isn't even filmed yet and won't be released for maybe a year. We will have plenty of time to talk about once we have seen it.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2014
  18. doubleohfive

    doubleohfive Fleet Admiral

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    Somehow, I just knew this thread would be busy this morning.

    My review of the film was hardly an attack against Alec Peters. Nor did Alec, anywhere in that discussion thread on Facebook "caution against" people coming after me. The level of grandstanding and hyperbole at play in your post is astonishing, Barb.

    First of all, you're right. It is months and months later. The prelude film has been out since the end of July. The rest of the film has been fully funded, garnering more than six times the amount of money originally asked for from fans donations.

    It absolutely amazes me what power you all seem to think I have over your production with one silly review, as if its very existence and my refusal to be cowed by the endless bullying of your like-minded compatriots is tantamount with threatening the further success of the project. The way you guys tell it, you think I punched someone's mother in the belly and stole your lunch money. For Christ's sake I expressed an opinion and stood by it! The horror! "Eppur si muove." and all that.

    Still, no matter how many times you say a thing, it doesn't make it true. Nothing in my review, constitutes an "attack" in any sane or measured definition of the word.

    Having seen the Facebook posts and made my own screen captures, I can tell you this is a blatant lie. Or at least a staggeringly naive interpretation of that post that dismisses Alec's well-established disdain not only for me but for anyone who dares disagree with or criticize him.

    So... a review worded a certain way that wasn't specifically outright and unadulterated praise is something that is totally accepteable for you to post on your own site, but my doing precisely the same here is unacceptable? Is that what you're saying?


    If you bothered to do you research, you'd know that I post reviews here of nearly all the fan films. And while I would never go so far as to proclaim myself an 'expert' I do possess enough professional experience in the field of filmmaking and television production that I feel I can offer a unique perspective in my reviews that most others don't have.

    As someone pointed out, it's hardly the worst comment to make describing a fan film written, produced, and starring the same person as a "vanity project." Vic Mignogna is doing the same thing over at Star Trek Continues, Nick Cook at Star Trek Intrepid, and even in the professional world, William Shatner himself does it with his Trek-based documentaries now. It is, frankly, ridiculous the snit everyone is getting into over those two words.

    You're not overly familiar with the concept of film reviews, are ya?

    Again, just coming in here to defend the film with no prior history with me or this board has sabotaged your efforts. I've never once stated that I "hate" Axanar. I've actually been pretty consistent with my approach and open-minded opinion on the piece, as described in my review here and as recognized by your comrades over on the Facebook page.

    It's one thing to disagree with someone, it's an entirely different matter to launch into a smear campaign dismissing actual facts in favor or just endlessly repeating soundbites that support your cause. I am doing the former. You and your friends are very clearly doing the latter.


    Despite our difference of opinions, I wanted to say that i appreciate your taking the time to make this point, one which is clearly being ignored by several people in this discussion.

    I have no problem with people disagreeing with my assessment of the film.

    I do have a huge problem however with people questioning my right to share those opinions.

    There's plenty of discussion taking place about "Mind-Sifter" in that fan film's thread, including my own review of the film posted there yesterday, and repeated posts and discussion from both James Cawley and Greg Schnitzer, both of whom are above-the-line producers of the film.

    As has been established, the majority of the people posting here have come to the board specifically at Alec's direction to try to gang up and drown out the review I posted yesterday.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2014
  19. 137th Gebirg

    137th Gebirg Vice Admiral Premium Member

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    My amendments in [brackets] above...

    Yeah man...like that's never happened here at TrekBBS before... TNZ Troll thread, anyone? This one just happened to come in from the outside as opposed to from within. Jeez! :guffaw:
     
  20. Noname Given

    Noname Given Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Quite a bit of TOS. Good stories like:

    The Corbomite Maneuver
    Balance of Terror
    Dagger of the Mind
    The Conscience of the King
    Court Martial
    Arena
    A Taste of Armageddon
    Errand of Mercy
    The Doomsday Machine
    Journey to Babel
    Obsession
    By Any Other Name
    The Ultimate Computer
    Elann of Troyius
    The Enterprise Incident
    Day of the Dove
    Whom God's Destroy<--- Quite relevant to 'Axanar' BTW. :)

    Nearly a FULL SEASON of 'Star Trek' stories (out of the 3 Star Trek seasons) that still had core characters and values that weren't in GR's oft cited 'enlightened humanity on a voyage of peaceful exploration' that honestly was NOT always the prime core element in Star Trek (be it the TOS or TNG/DS9/VOY or ENT eras.)

    Axanar does have a lot of the core Star Trek elements of interesting and complex characters striving to be better, but faced with a dire situation they're working together to resolve.
     
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