Star Trek 2017 will not be set in the JJ-Verse

[Rahul]

@Squiggy: Do you even math? In what universe is "15" (average for 3D) "less than half" of 20? Hell, in my local cinema I can watch french arthouse movies for 5 bucks. I do that. Try watching a blockbuster in it's first week. You will not get it that cheap. Especially not in 3D. Also: ticket prizes is the one number varying between places, and arguably the least important here. Other points: Hardcore fans do repeated viewings. The actual number of people who saw Into Darkness might even be lower. Lots of people watched traditional Star Trek in re-runs, so more people have watched Star Trek regularly in one point of their life than the number of viewership on first airing. (Star Trek got popular because of re-runs)

@Hela: Have you seen any 30-40 years old in your screening of Into Darkness that were unfamiliar with Star Trek?

Apparently some people here are incapable of seperating opinions ("Trek 2017 will not take place in the JJverse"), following from arguments ("JJ-Trek is not nearly as popular in mainstream audiences as some people here believe"), resulting from facts ("JJ-Trek viewers are mostly old, and the box office numbers aren't that great compared to other properties of equal pop cultural status")

Nobody dismissed the JJmovies. I'm happy for you if you like them. I find them enjoyable for the most part. But don't, just don't pretend Star Trek was created by JJ abrams. These movies are decently successfull summer blockbusters, for all that it's worth. But don't stand here, yelling at everyone who doesn't agree with you, dismiss all their evidence, don't present ANY evidence on your own, and don't even try to argue, because in your head you have already won the argument...

An argument that's btw solely happening in your heads: no one said those movies are bad. I just said they didn't qualify as the basis or a good launching point for a new series.

 

[martok2112]

But don't, just don't pretend Star Trek was created by JJ abrams.

This is where you have completely lost credibility in any argument you thought you had, Rahul.

You immediately assume that if someone loved or liked the Abrams Trek movies that we think that he is the one who created it.

I doubt there is a soul here at the board who even remotely entertains a thought that JJ Abrams created Star Trek. If there is anyone who does, then they are mistaken.

No. Gene Roddenberry created Star Trek. But many others were responsible for its success at points throughout its history, and others were responsible for its eventually being placed on life support for so many years.

JJ Abrams simply helped save it.

 

[Rahul]

All hail Abrams, saviour of Star Trek. Without whom Trek would never have been relevant. Or known to general audiences. Or ever watched by anyone.

 

[Squiggy]

@Squiggy: Do you even math? In what universe is "15" (average for 3D) "less than half" of 20?

This is the universe where you claimed the average ticket was 20 bucks. In 2012 it was just under 8.
9/20=40%<50%

That takes into account 3D sales. Unless you have it on good authority that everyone saw STID in 3D.

Even if you think the average of 15 you're still almost 100% off the mark for a 2012 average movie ticket.

Math is precise. If you're using it, make sure the numbers are correct.

Hell, in my local cinema I can watch french arthouse movies for 5 bucks. I do that.

Bully for you. STID isn't a French arthouse movie.

Try watching a blockbuster in it's first week.

Ticket prices are unaffected by demand. If it's 12 bucks on opening night it'll be 12 bucks 3 weeks later unless you see it during a matinee.

Also: ticket prizes is the one number varying between places, and arguably the least important here.

Not when you made it the cornerstone of your argument.

All hail Abrams, saviour of Star Trek. Without whom Trek would never have been relevant. Or known to general audiences. Or ever watched by anyone.

No one said that. We're just tearing apart your evidence because they're based on made up numbers. Don't like JJ? Super. Don't make shit up and tell us it's gospel.

 

[Nerys Myk]

All hail Abrams, saviour of Star Trek. Without whom Trek would never have been relevant. Or known to general audiences. Or ever watched by anyone.

How did you get that from martok's post?

 

[Campe]

Try watching a blockbuster in it's first week.

Ticket prices are unaffected by demand. If it's 12 bucks on opening night it'll be 12 bucks 3 weeks later unless you see it during a matinee.

Yup. Plus, to my point earlier. Mockingjay, Part 2 opens Friday. I have tickets to a show Saturday afternoon. My tickets are $5.75 each.

To date, the Hunger Games series has averaged $390 million at the box office. Sounds like a blockbuster to me!

 

[martok2112]

All hail Abrams, saviour of Star Trek. Without whom Trek would never have been relevant. Or known to general audiences. Or ever watched by anyone.

How did you get that from martok's post?

I had a feeling that's how he/she'd respond.

 

[Squiggy]

Try watching a blockbuster in it's first week.

Ticket prices are unaffected by demand. If it's 12 bucks on opening night it'll be 12 bucks 3 weeks later unless you see it during a matinee.

Yup. Plus, to my point earlier. Mockingjay, Part 2 opens Friday. I have tickets to a show Saturday afternoon. My tickets are $5.75 each.

Then clearly the entire franchise is a failure.

 

[Campe]

Yup, average take across 3 films being $390 million?

Definitely a failure.

 

[Squiggy]

Yup, average take across 3 films being $390 million?

Definitely a failure.

The lack of action figures and the fact there's no television show prove it.

Also, some math I just made up because my cousin saw it and didn't like it.

 

[Campe]

Well, you have to have standards!

And math.

 

[martok2112]

And SCIENCE!

 

[Rahul]

Dudes, check sources:

http://www.theguardian.com/film/2010/mar/25/3d-film-ticket-price-rise

And no problem if you don't know math, there's schools for that

(Also, I am also super into not reading what other people write, turning their arguments into strawman-arguments and then mocking them for their weak argument )

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/StrawmanFallacy

(you look like your education could need that... remember when I said JJ-Trek was a "failure"? Yeah, me neither...But hey, he's arguing for another position, HE HAS TO BE WRONG)

 

[hux]

I'm getting bored of repeatedly saying this but again, the JJ-Verse basically just means no Vulcan and no Kirk's dad.

That's it.

Why do people talk about it as though it's a massively divergent universe with massively differing sensibilities, people, visuals, technologies, ideas, etc etc.

It's just fucking TNG but with no mention of Vulcan or Kirk's dad.

That's it. That's your wildly divergent universe.

 

[Squiggy]

Dudes, check sources:

http://www.theguardian.com/film/2010/mar/25/3d-film-ticket-price-rise

And no problem if you don't know math, there's schools for that

(Also, I am also super into not reading what other people write, turning their arguments into strawman-arguments and then mocking them for their weak argument )

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/StrawmanFallacy

(you look like your education could need that... remember when I said JJ-Trek was a "failure"? Yeah, me neither...But hey, he's arguing for another position, HE HAS TO BE WRONG)

That's an article from 2010 - 3D's peak. It's a forecast that didn't happen.

Lots of people rushed out and got 3DTVs too.

 

[martok2112]

I'm getting bored of repeatedly saying this but again, the JJ-Verse basically just means no Vulcan and no Kirk's dad.

That's it.

Why do people talk about it as though it's a massively divergent universe with massively differing sensibilities, people, visuals, technologies, ideas, etc etc.

It's just fucking TNG but with no mention of Vulcan or Kirk's dad.

That's it. That's your wildly divergent universe.

Hey, man! For some people, that can be a pretty dizzying and debilitating turn! Show some consideration will ya?!

 

[Rahul]

Naw.... How about we continue to concentrate on the one number he admitted to got wrong two pages ago? And continue to ignore everything else he said? I really felt a lack of bullying in this forum that needs to be adjusted for.

 

[Rahul]

I'm getting bored of repeatedly saying this but again, the JJ-Verse basically just means no Vulcan and no Kirk's dad.

That's it.

Why do people talk about it as though it's a massively divergent universe with massively differing sensibilities, people, visuals, technologies, ideas, etc etc.

It's just fucking TNG but with no mention of Vulcan or Kirk's dad.

That's it. That's your wildly divergent universe.

Agreed. But if you dare to propose the new series might continue the old universe, some dumbass comes around the corner and insults you for not loving the JJ-movies as much as you are obligated to...

 

[Campe]

Sigh.

Dude, that article is from 2010. 5 years ago. And 3 years prior to the release of STID. Ticket prices increased in 2010, yes. They also increased this summer. And as the article I presented earlier, which you clearly ignored, cited the average ticket prices in the United States to be $8.61. In other words, your argument regarding a $15 average ticket price is still wrong.

I live in Nashville, the 25th largest metropolitan area in the United States. I used to live in Peoria, IL, which is a considerably smaller metropolitan area. Peoria's tickets are a bit higher but Tennessee has the distinction of not having sales tax. Regardless, for a 3D non-matinee time in these two cities average a little less than $10. A 3D ticket in Chicago is about $17. New York about $20. Denver $15. Orlando $13.50. Memphis $9.50. Matinee prices are about $2-5 less and 3D is about a $2-3 upcharge. IMAX about $5-8. But IMAX is usually limited to a limited number of screens and is only typically for one movie at a time.

So logic would suggest that more tickets sold to non-IMAX screenings. Plus, as typically, movie theaters typically start screenings between 10am and 11pm, and matinee/discount prices can run from 10 to 6, and evening prices go from 6 to 11, it is also logical that more screenings are at the matinee price. Plus, there are fewer films being released on an annual basis in 3D which also lowers the average ticket price.

So, the $8.61 average ticket price stands. Plus it's the most relevant data we have!

 

[martok2112]

[friendly mode]
Rahul, look, some folk are going to like the version of Trek that JJ put out, and some folk aren't. That's all.

Why do people feel the need to argue against the clear success of something they don't like? Is it really going to change anything for them?

Yes. Gene Roddenberry created Star Trek.
Yes, it has enjoyed varied success and failure over the years. (Again, it rested on the shoulders of many people other than Roddenberry.)
Yes, it damn near died on life support. (Nemesis and Enterprise)
Yes, JJ Abrams and Bad Robot were called in to see what they could do with Star Trek. Guess what, they saved it.

But Trek has always had relevance, regardless of what era you think of or prefer. Even in its lowest points in history, Trek had relevance of some sort.

Trek has been a household name for 50 years, and I don't think that's showing any sign of deteriorating in that status.

There are many of us who have supported and loved Star Trek since we were but we lads and lasses (and that was many, many moons ago.) A new version of Trek comes along and most of us ate it up and asked for seconds, as did a lot of people who (again) never gave two fraks about anything remotely related to Star Trek.

For some folk, it didn't sit very well. But some (note, I said some)of that number seem to feel a need to either argue til they're blue in the face (no offense ), or whine, bitch, and moan that their Star Trek no longer exists or will continue.

You didn't care for it. That's fine. I respect that. But what you are doing is going back to data that is years old (and since been disproven) to try and support whatever position you feel you have.

Just dislike it and move on.

Whatever incarnation Trek 2017 is going to follow, the best any of us can do is give it a chance if it sounds like a Trek we'd be interested in. And whenever a movie of tv show (or occasional fan film) says Star Trek in it, it is certainly going to have my attention.