ST:TMP: Was such a massive refit of the USS Enterprise logical?

Discussion in 'Trek Tech' started by Tribble puncher, Apr 5, 2017.

  1. Santaman

    Santaman Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Usually when a ship comes back the crew gets free time and then gets assigned to wherever they're needed, the ship itself gets a thorough checkup anyway which will take months, might be that they caught the 1701 while she was already being checked out, cleaned, repaired an made fit for active duty again and decided to halt the whole process and use her for the refitting since she was going to be prepared for active duty anyway, they will already given her a thorough exam so they knew in what shape she was.
     
  2. DanGussin

    DanGussin Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    Thats a interesting idea.
     
  3. Phoenix219

    Phoenix219 Commodore Commodore

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    I'm still sad the third one never came out.
     
  4. Henoch

    Henoch Fleet Captain Premium Member

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    Never saw those fan-videos before. Thanks for sharing!
     
  5. Dukhat

    Dukhat Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Knowing contractors like I do...yes, it sat in Spacedock for an entire year while the contractors conducted a 'study' (i.e. they sat around on their asses doing nothing until someone decided that they actually needed to get around to starting the work.)
     
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  6. Boris Skrbic

    Boris Skrbic Captain Captain

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    But in a twist on the canon, what if the two have nothing to do with each other? What if the Enterprise-class NX-, then NCC-1800 was “redesigned and refitted” into NCC-1701 of the same class? It would’ve been the first time 1701 was treated as more than just a number, the original numbering being preserved for other Constitution-class starships also (hence the renaming from Enterprise-class).
     
  7. Dukhat

    Dukhat Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I'm not sure what any of that theory has to do with how long it took for the Enterprise to be refit.
     
  8. Boris Skrbic

    Boris Skrbic Captain Captain

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    Well, the first year would’ve been spent on a safe refit of the TOS ship into the Phase II version, before it was decided to scrap that project and bring forward the riskier, next-generation Enterprise class, which at that point would’ve consisted only of the problematic NX-1800. Eighteen months of redesigning and refitting led to the ship we saw in TMP.
     
  9. Ithekro

    Ithekro Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Kirk gets promoted. Enterprise gets a Phase II refit and under Captain Decker does trail runs. Things either don't go well with the new nacelles, or another option comes up as Enterprise comes back from trails. Since she happens to be the ship closest to Earth at that time, they decide to give her the full on refit, even though she just had a less intensive one in the last year. 18 months later, Admiral Kirk takes over the soon to launch USS Enterprise, Captain Decker goes MIA, and history continues for the NCC-1701.
     
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  10. Boris Skrbic

    Boris Skrbic Captain Captain

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    No, my whole point is to eliminate the need for physical continuity between the two designs: all that remained of the original Enterprise would’ve been its name and number, in accordance with the fact that nobody sat with the eleven-foot miniature and figured out precisely how to morph it into the TMP design.
     
  11. Ithekro

    Ithekro Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Which is not what happened since its specifically the same starship it was since at least Kirk started his five year mission. Even if Admiral Morrow was correct in saying its 20 years old...that's still at least as old as the start of Kirk's Five Year mission.

    Plus Kirk, nor Scott, would have anywhere near the emotional attachment to the Enterprise in TMP if it wasn't the same ship.
     
  12. Boris Skrbic

    Boris Skrbic Captain Captain

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    But emotionally it was the same ship, just as an axe with a swapped out handle, then blade can easily be perceived as the same axe. That’s why the name, number and eventually the class remained the same, even if in the beginning Kirk didn’t know her “a tenth” as well as Decker.

    As for Morrow’s quote, he wasn’t testifying under oath, but presumably making the point that the Great Experiment replaced technology that went back to 2265: the revolutionary Enterprise class would’ve obviously taken some time to develop and prototype.
     
  13. Dukhat

    Dukhat Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    That sounds needlessly convoluted. Plus there's no indication in the film that the TOS Enterprise was first refit into the Phase II Enterprise and then re-refit into the TMP Enterprise later. It's easier and more logical to think that the work simply didn't start right away.
     
  14. Boris Skrbic

    Boris Skrbic Captain Captain

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    There would’ve been no re-refit, just a refit towards the Phase II version (project scrapped by 2272), followed by 18 months of redesign and refit on a totally unrelated prototype. That would also explain why some sources would remain under the illusion that the TOS ship was physically transformed into the TMP version: the project must have started out that way for everyone to see, then switched out the hull entirely in Year 2, and if someone wasn’t paying close attention, well…
     
  15. Ithekro

    Ithekro Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The only precedent I have for such a thing is the "Reconstruction" for some older ironclads into more modern coastal defense ships in the United States. And the only reason this was done was because Congress didn't want to put out money for new ships, but would to repair existing ships. The older ships were actually scrapped, a few items put into the new ship and they game it the same name. But long before they were finish, it was quite obvious (even to Congress) that the ship was entirely a new construction...and illegal to boot. They were cancelled, but held, at the contractor's expense. for years. These ships were ordered in the early 1870s...they were not completed until the 1890s. They were followed up by a few actual new build monitor types. One because they felt it was a reasonable idea, and the last group due to the Spanish-American War (and were named after states, since the number of battleships in the fleet at that time was very small, so all the armored cruisers and monitors also were named for states to get funding passed in Congress in the 1890s).

    This does not fit the concept for USS Enterprise, NCC-1701.
     
  16. Dukhat

    Dukhat Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    What you just described is a re-refit.
     
  17. Boris Skrbic

    Boris Skrbic Captain Captain

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    Well, technically it’s two refits, the first one on NCC-1701, the second one on NX-1800. (As you can see I basically transposing the real-world design history into the universe, which seems to be working out.)
     
  18. Dukhat

    Dukhat Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Yes, I understand what you're doing. What I'm saying is that 1.) there's no canon evidence that this was done in-universe, and 2.) there's no canon evidence that an Enterprise-class NX/NCC-1800 starship and class exists. There are only two known canonical TMP-type Connies: The Enterprise NCC-1701, and the Enterprise NCC-1701-A. We do not know whether the A was a refit or a new build, but we do know that the A had a dedication plaque stating it was a Constitution class starship, not an Enterprise class starship.
     
  19. Boris Skrbic

    Boris Skrbic Captain Captain

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    Yes, but it’s a reasonable expectation that the other TOS Constitutions were replaced likewise, if only to prevent them from showing up in their original form at any point during the film era. And if that happened, well, what was the new class ship, the Enterprise or the Constitution? The Enterprise in the beginning, as suggested by the TWOK simulator plaque, but eventually it would’ve become the Constitution, because this quite unusual and never-to-be-repeated manner in which ships of a class were replaced with analogous versions of themselves. Sources would still be confused about the class name, some adding (refit), others (II), etc.
     
  20. Dukhat

    Dukhat Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I agree with you to some extent that there might have been an early idea to have the TMP refit be its own class with the Enterprise being the first ship of that class, based on the above-mentioned "Enterprise-Class" Kobayashi Maru simulator room, although things like the Ent-A's dedication plaque and the idea to have Picard's old Stargazer be a TMP Constitution class before Greg Jein's last-minute change seems to indicate that this idea was abandoned later.

    But I'm not really buying that there was already an NX/NCC-1800 ship that was identical to the TMP refit and that Starfleet decided to change the TOS Enterprise to look like it or switch gears halfway through a Phase II refit. All signs seem to indicate that the TMP Enterprise was the first ship to get this refit, that it was a brand-new design meant only for that particular ship, and that other TMP Connies were built later or TOS Connies were refit later.