Spoilers ST Strange New Worlds - StarShips & Technology Season 1 Discussion

[Mark_Nguyen]

I’m wondering if the ship was sent out with only three people aboard because of some GO1 parameters. Warp tech detected, but seems a bit hinkey, so send a ship with a minimal crew? Or was the Archer on some other mission with Una in command for some other specific reason, but was then diverted because when the warp event was detected?

I think in the end we’ll do better by rationalizing that the Archer should NORMALLY be operating with a much larger crew, but because of mission-specific reasons they were down to three when they pulled into orbit. As it stands, it goes beyond reason that Una would leave the ship entirely unmanned when they beamed down - they should’ve reported in and waited for backup at the very least.

Mark

 

[NCC-73515]

CRUSHER: It's all perfectly logical to you, isn't it? The two of us roaming about the galaxy in the flagship of the Federation. No crew at all.
PICARD: We've never needed a crew before.
[...]
CRUSHER: Do I have the necessary skills to complete that mission alone?
COMPUTER: Negative.
CRUSHER: Then why am I the only crew member? Aha, got you there.
COMPUTER: That information is not available.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

I don't care about the size, I love the USS Archer. I've always loved the Saladin/Hermes (and Freedom) Class designs, so I'm glad that a version of them have finally been shown clearly on screen. I don't think its a runabout type ship though, I think its probably sized for 20-30ish people but was using a skeleton crew in the episode, but regardless it was fun to see it.

But would you still love the USS Archer if it was a smaller ship, about ~25 meters in length, similar to the Danube class RunAbout?

 

[kirk55555]

But would you still love the USS Archer if it was a smaller ship, about ~25 meters in length, similar to the Danube class RunAbout?

It wouldn't be as cool, but I'd still like it. Luckily there is no real evidence that its that small, there are many reasons why a bigger ship could be ran by a crew of three. This is Modern Trek, where the old USS Enterprise has dozens of R2-D2 like repair droids shoved somewhere that it never uses after Kirk takes command (and apparently don't make it to the Enterprise-A, they would have been very helpful in Star Trek II), so the general tech level has to accepted in the context of the show, and not how it actually should be if this was Prime Universe pre-Star Trek Discovery.

There is no reason a ship the size of the original Saladin/Hermes, about 242 meters in the old tech book, couldn't have a crew of three in certain circumstances, like acting as a transport for a few officers. Its not like STIII where Scotty basically hotwired the Enterprise and automated it quickly and in secret, and then the ship got into a battle they didn't expect. The Archer was presumably set up for at least the possibility of a small crew, I'd guess in universe they used a ship bigger than a shuttle for range reasons, and the time period probably didn't have exact runabout analogues. Or maybe the Archer is an older ship repurposed for transport, or it is a ship that happened to be available for some reason but without a crew so it was given to Number One for what was presumably supposed to be a quick, peaceful mission.

That is all even with tech that should fit the time period, with how Discovery changed 23rd century tech I wouldn't be surprised if automation could do things that wouldn't even make sense in the TNG and later era, because most of the tech in the modern Trek era is much more advanced then tech in TNG/DS9/VOY, even in the shows set 100 years+ before TNG. Lower Decks is the only show that even tries to make tech that would generally fit in late TNT-VOY era, and it takes place after those shows/movies.

That said, I do believe the Archer could be smaller then 242 meters just based on the design that we see, but without exact stats I'd assume the nacelle is the size of the Enterprise's and the ship scales to it. That said I'd also believe its the size of the old Hermes/Saladin or bigger but the model just doesn't look it for some reason, its not like star Trek hasn't had size issues for ships in the past.

We probably won't get any type of answer until Eaglemoss releases the ship model, and even then half the people here will argue that nothing is canon unless the people running the show state a number on screen somewhere

 

[Deks]

I don't see the problem in how Disco changed technology and automation use in the 23rd century.
In fact, this is where tech probably should have been originally... but TOS was made in a much different time, and the show reflects that.
So, as far as I know, SNW and Disco (at least seasons 1 and 2) DO take place in the Prime universe/timeline and were merely updated visually with the times (and sadly, Disco s3 and 4 also take place in the Prime Timeline of the 32nd century - unadvanced as the 32nd century is).

 

[blssdwlf]

In TOS there are episodes where the Enterprise can be automated to run by herself or with a small crew. In "The Menagerie" an unmodified Enterprise is run by computer and takes them to Talos IV. And in "Wolf in the Fold" it is stated that the computer can operate the entire ship (and kill them all). In "This Side of Paradise" Kirk laments that he cannot pilot the Enterprise alone with automatic controls but he's not as able as Spock is in "The Menagerie". So the technology to automate a ship is there in TOS. It's not preferred because in TOS people like to be able to override and manually control things but it isn't because of a lack of capability. IMHO.

 

[yotsuya]

In TOS there are episodes where the Enterprise can be automated to run by herself or with a small crew. In "The Menagerie" an unmodified Enterprise is run by computer and takes them to Talos IV. And in "Wolf in the Fold" it is stated that the computer can operate the entire ship (and kill them all). In "This Side of Paradise" Kirk laments that he cannot pilot the Enterprise alone with automatic controls but he's not as able as Spock is in "The Menagerie". So the technology to automate a ship is there in TOS. It's not preferred because in TOS people like to be able to override and manually control things but it isn't because of a lack of capability. IMHO.

In TOS I get the impression that while the Computer can act as an impressive autopilot, it can't run the ship very well because the various stations around the ship have to be crewed to keep the ship's systems operating. So what we see in The Menagerie is the computer controlling the course, but it is not fully running the ship. And in Wolf in the Fold, that is likely a boast to increase fear. In TSFS, Scotty rigs it to be fully automated so the computer can control all necessary positions, but the automation isn't up to combat (which he warns about).

 

[Ronald Held]

In TOS, the computer might be able to run the ship for nominal conditions, but not anomalous or in combat.

 

[fireproof78]

(and apparently don't make it to the Enterprise-A, they would have been very helpful in Star Trek II)

On a training ship they likely were not assigned to it.

We probably won't get any type of answer until Eaglemoss releases the ship model, and even then half the people here will argue that nothing is canon unless the people running the show state a number on screen somewhere

I mean, yes. I don't treat ancillary or BTS materials as canon or unable to be contradicted by on screen evidence.

In TOS there are episodes where the Enterprise can be automated to run by herself or with a small crew. In "The Menagerie" an unmodified Enterprise is run by computer and takes them to Talos IV. And in "Wolf in the Fold" it is stated that the computer can operate the entire ship (and kill them all). In "This Side of Paradise" Kirk laments that he cannot pilot the Enterprise alone with automatic controls but he's not as able as Spock is in "The Menagerie". So the technology to automate a ship is there in TOS. It's not preferred because in TOS people like to be able to override and manually control things but it isn't because of a lack of capability. IMHO.

I wonder if Menagerie should be taken at face value, given the influence of the Talosians in that episode? It was unmodified by the crew, but I don't know if that means that there wasn't other influences.

 

[blssdwlf]

In TOS I get the impression that while the Computer can act as an impressive autopilot, it can't run the ship very well because the various stations around the ship have to be crewed to keep the ship's systems operating. So what we see in The Menagerie is the computer controlling the course, but it is not fully running the ship. And in Wolf in the Fold, that is likely a boast to increase fear. In TSFS, Scotty rigs it to be fully automated so the computer can control all necessary positions, but the automation isn't up to combat (which he warns about).

Yeah, TOS has automation technology (see the Woden and the other automatic facilities scattered in the series).

The Enterprise computer seems to be deliberately held back so that the crew has something to do like monitor it's functions and do adjustments and repair work. There maybe some reason for the crew to be able to not only bypass and override controls but also compel the computer to do something.

In "Menagerie", Spock's computer tapes had programming for computer control for navigation, helm and propulsion control as well. It wasn't fully running the ship but it was also not able to be bypassed or overridden in time before arriving at Talos IV.

From "Wolf in the Fold" we get dialogue that confirms that the computer controls the ship and systems but they have manual overrides and bypass controls.

And in "The Ultimate Computer" the M5 computer was hooked into the Enterprise's systems via one of the engine rooms so it would suggest that almost all systems can be computer-controlled as stated in "Wolf in the Fold".

So that leaves "The Search For Spock". If the Enterprise was not so crippled by Khan's precision attacks I would bet that the Scotty would not need to jerry rig an automation center and they could've put the ship on computer control.

In TOS, the computer might be able to run the ship for nominal conditions, but not anomalous or in combat.

"The Ultimate Computer" seems to suggest that the upgrading of the computer system would be enough. The episode M5 being installed into one of the engine rooms but no extra work was performed on the control systems on the rest of the ship even though there were combat exercises.

I wonder if Menagerie should be taken at face value, given the influence of the Talosians in that episode? It was unmodified by the crew, but I don't know if that means that there wasn't other influences.

It is possible that some of the activities taken by the crew to override the computer control could've been hampered by the Talosians but it seemed that the computer control portion (navigation, helm and engine control) were handled by Spock's programming for the computer. Story-wise, the trial was the only known distraction from the Talosians so for me I think the Enterprise can be automated as-is. IMHO.

 

[fireproof78]

Story-wise, the trial was the only known distraction from the Talosians so for me I think the Enterprise can be automated as-is. IMHO.

I would not be inclined to take it at face value.

 

[Jedi Marso]

So... where is the emergency medical transporter in TOS?

Oh yeah- there isn't one. Further evidence we have an alternate timeline, here...

 

[DEWLine]

McCoy probably had it removed when he took over the medical department.

 

[blssdwlf]

I would not be inclined to take it at face value.

It's a good thing it isn't the only episode that had the computer take control of the Enterprise then

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

McCoy probably had it removed when he took over the medical department.

That's a really good point, he's the last person who'd want a transporter inside his fiefdom.

 

[Ronald Held]

I always thought the SF computers were designed to be short of being sentient.

 

[blssdwlf]

I always thought the SF computers were designed to be short of being sentient.

I think in the earlier replies the "sentient" part wasn't really addressed and only whether a ship can be automated or controlled by a very small number of crew. It just happened that one example, the M5, was a sentient computer taking over control and in "Wolf in the Fold" an alien entity took over the computer to control the ship. In "Menagerie" it was just Spock feeding the computer a program to control the ship.

 

[fireproof78]

It's a good thing it isn't the only episode that had the computer take control of the Enterprise then

That's a fair point, but to what level is it able to take control? How much so? Is it autopilot like or is it able to respond to outside stressors?

 

[Markonian]

Not seen ep. 2 yet. Any new ship references/appearances?

 

[blssdwlf]

That's a fair point, but to what level is it able to take control? How much so? Is it autopilot like or is it able to respond to outside stressors?

M5 was responding to all comms, scanning for targets, blowing stuff up and maneuvering around. Also tricked the crew with false control signals to waste their time.

Redjac was causing all systems to go haywire including the turbolift, life support, etc but focused on scaring everyone in the ship.