*Spoilers* U.S.S. Franklin Design?

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Maybe the windows are just windows when seen from the outside, but when a crewmember inside the ship looks OUT, they're more than that.

I mean, if any of the windows on Voyager or the Enterprise or whatever, had computer overlays on them, there'd be no need for somebody OUTSIDE the ship to see that. It'd only be useful for those inside the ship. So from the outside, they just look like regular windows.

 

[Shark]

Pugfugly design. I'd still build a model of one though...

 

[JKM]

Okay so this may be totally off topic, but so many of you guys seem to be pretty ship smart so I'll ask here and if I need to move it somewhere else I will. I was watching TOS season 2 The Apple and during it when the super computer is pulling the ship out of orbit, Kirk says "Discard the warp drive and the cells if you have to and crack out of there with the main section,but get that ship out of there!" to Scotty. So am I understanding it right that he's saying the disc part of the ship can separate from the nacelles and fly by itself? Or does main section = saucer section?

I knew that was a ship design later on in Next Gen, but I didn't realize TOS Enterprise could do it. Just curious because of the Beyond trailer when the both nacelles are ripped off and they show the main section crash landed. If it can fly just the saucer section though, maybe not so dead?

 

[Mr. Nova]

Maybe the windows are just windows when seen from the outside, but when a crewmember inside the ship looks OUT, they're more than that.

I mean, if any of the windows on Voyager or the Enterprise or whatever, had computer overlays on them, there'd be no need for somebody OUTSIDE the ship to see that. It'd only be useful for those inside the ship. So from the outside, they just look like regular windows.

Agreed, makes sense to me.

 

[Mr. Nova]

Okay so this may be totally off topic, but so many of you guys seem to be pretty ship smart so I'll ask here and if I need to move it somewhere else I will. I was watching TOS season 2 The Apple and during it when the super computer is pulling the ship out of orbit, Kirk says "Discard the warp drive and the cells if you have to and crack out of there with the main section,but get that ship out of there!" to Scotty. So am I understanding it right that he's saying the disc part of the ship can separate from the nacelles and fly by itself? Or does main section = saucer section?

I knew that was a ship design later on in Next Gen, but I didn't realize TOS Enterprise could do it. Just curious because of the Beyond trailer when the both nacelles are ripped off and they show the main section crash landed. If it can fly just the saucer section though, maybe not so dead?

Moderators, apologies for the double post. I will try to remember to use multiquote in the future.

JKM, I thought I had heard that before, but couldn't remember what episode. AFAIK that's the only time it's mentioned in TOS, but it certainly points to the possibility that it was an option. It never happened until TNG though. The effect would likely have been too expensive to try on TOS's budget.

It's been many years since I've read Stephen Whitfield's The Making of Star Trek, but it seems like the capability may have been mentioned there. But I could easily be wrong.

 

[shapeshifter]

I cannot remember ever chiming in on the window viewscreen or not so... I am fine with them. They aren't why the Abramsprize is ugly to me.

Veiwscreens could malfunction leaving the crew blinded, windows not so much. As far as their being a vulnerability, I doubt it. For all we know the windows are the strongest parts. If they are a protection liability, I can see how the benefits outweigh the dangers.

 

[Timo]

Or does main section = saucer section?

Well, that's about the only question remaining about the affair. The saucer could be considered a dedicated "lander", while the engineering hull might be the "main" section, or whatever.

Generally, Starfleet ships have saucers. Some of them are seen separating their saucers, voluntarily or involuntarily. Some of them are seen landing their saucers. Many are seen landing, or flying close to the ground through an atmosphere. None are explicitly described as being incapable of a) separation, b) atmospheric flight or c) landing and subsequent takeoff. Although many a design (especially those of smaller ships) suggests that splitting it into smaller parts would be a major chore...

So there would be ample precedent for the Enterprise in ST Beyond surviving planetfall relatively intact. Or at least as intact as those ripper drones leave her. Heck, crashes in Star Trek generally are survivable, even if you fall from orbit or crash at the conclusion of a faster-than-warp flight! Apparently, heroes need safety belts like a tiger needs pajamas.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[starburst]

I cannot remember ever chiming in on the window viewscreen or not so... I am fine with them. They aren't why the Abramsprize is ugly to me.

Veiwscreens could malfunction leaving the crew blinded, windows not so much. As far as their being a vulnerability, I doubt it. For all we know the windows are the strongest parts. If they are a protection liability, I can see how the benefits outweigh the dangers.

They could just use an armoured blast door or shutters over the viewscreen during combat or other dangerous situations leaving them to rely on sensors. Its something I think Stargate Universe did well with the Destiny's entire bridge sinking down into the hull whenever they were attacked.

In some ways having a protective shutter roll down over all of the windows might be a good idea, though its possible I am thinking too much with my "ape brain" as Doug Drexler says but on earlier ships I can see it being a good idea.

 

[137th Gebirg]

They could just use an armoured blast door or shutters over the viewscreen during combat or other dangerous situations leaving them to rely on sensors. Its something I think Stargate Universe did well with the Destiny's entire bridge sinking down into the hull whenever they were attacked.

In some ways having a protective shutter roll down over all of the windows might be a good idea, though its possible I am thinking too much with my "ape brain" as Doug Drexler says but on earlier ships I can see it being a good idea.

Was thinking the same thing. TOS Battlestar Galactica had the "Positive Shield Now!" thing, too.

 

[JKM]

Well, that's about the only question remaining about the affair. The saucer could be considered a dedicated "lander", while the engineering hull might be the "main" section, or whatever.

Generally, Starfleet ships have saucers. Some of them are seen separating their saucers, voluntarily or involuntarily. Some of them are seen landing their saucers. Many are seen landing, or flying close to the ground through an atmosphere. None are explicitly described as being incapable of a) separation, b) atmospheric flight or c) landing and subsequent takeoff. Although many a design (especially those of smaller ships) suggests that splitting it into smaller parts would be a major chore...

So there would be ample precedent for the Enterprise in ST Beyond surviving planetfall relatively intact. Or at least as intact as those ripper drones leave her. Heck, crashes in Star Trek generally are survivable, even if you fall from orbit or crash at the conclusion of a faster-than-warp flight! Apparently, heroes need safety belts like a tiger needs pajamas.

Timo Saloniemi

Yeah from the only trailer I've seen so far, I'd have to say she won't fly again, otherwise what would be the need for the Franklin, then again will they be able to fit the remaining crew they eventually rescue (I'm assuming) on the Franklin? I suppose they could get away in the Franklin and come back with help but if the flagship was taken down so easily I don't see how any other spaceship would do any better unless Scotty comes up with some miraculous way to block those drone ships.

 

[ralph]

Yeah from the only trailer I've seen so far, I'd have to say she won't fly again, otherwise what would be the need for the Franklin, then again will they be able to fit the remaining crew they eventually rescue (I'm assuming) on the Franklin? I suppose they could get away in the Franklin and come back with help but if the flagship was taken down so easily I don't see how any other spaceship would do any better unless Scotty comes up with some miraculous way to block those drone ships.

Perhaps there is another ship in orbit of the planet where it is located Starbase Yorktown. Franklin would be a way to get there.

 

[Jedi_Master]

View screens could malfunction leaving the crew blinded, windows not so much.

As long as the sensors are operational, the crew is not blind.

 

[shapeshifter]

And if they go out as well? A logical backup against view screen and sensor failure would a way to look out and see what's happening.
The huge window at the front of the bridge seems perfectly suited to cover those eventuality's, imo.

They could just use an armoured blast door or shutters over the viewscreen during combat or other dangerous situations leaving them to rely on sensors.

.
I don't recall actually seeing exterior views of 'blast doors' in place during combat in either ST09 or STID. Unless I am wrong, the implication is the window is as strong as surrounding structure.

 

[starburst]

Was thinking the same thing. TOS Battlestar Galactica had the "Positive Shield Now!" thing, too.

They did, I was thinking BSG but wasn't sure... other examples of this would be the Lost in Space film and the Babylon 5 station. Makes sense to me all the windows would have had something like this especially in the days of Enterprise as it would offer the crew privacy unless they could make them one way (which I would assume would be likely by TOS and surely by TNG).

I don't recall actually seeing exterior views of 'blast doors' in place during combat in either ST09 or STID. Unless I am wrong, the implication is the window is as strong as surrounding structure.

Nope and to be honest setting my earlier statements aside (again to echo Doug turning off the ol' ape brain cells) I imagine the "glass" used to be pretty tough.

I can think of 2 instances in ST09 & STID where it was shown to be a risk; ST09 when the ship is escaping the black hole, not surprising seeming the bridge in general and likely other areas were starting to crack not just the window, and STID the Vengeance had lost hers during the crash... But then the ship just fell out of space and took out part of a city so again it doesn't suggest anything other than it can break.

In fact the STID example would actually suggest that the hull is superior to the Enterprise's but the windows are made from a similar material seeming that the window broke but the bridge was largely intact.

 

[Kemaiku]

But if you look at the jagged edges of whats left of Vengeance's viewscreen, there's a rather weird texture to the material that doesn't look like glass when viewed side on. And it's a good half-foot thick or more, something like layering going on with it.

It could look like a single piece thing when looking though, but apparently it's several inches of many different meshed layers of varying thickness.

 

[BillJ]

You take a torpedo to the front of the bridge without shields, it won't matter what that wall is made of. See the Enterprise-E in Star Trek: Nemesis.

 

[137th Gebirg]

But if you look at the jagged edges of whats left of Vengeance's viewscreen, there's a rather weird texture to the material that doesn't look like glass when viewed side on. And it's a good half-foot thick or more, something like layering going on with it.

It could look like a single piece thing when looking though, but apparently it's several inches of many different meshed layers of varying thickness.

This would make sense, considering the window has a multipurpose view-screen capability. I would guess that there several layers are dedicated to HUD features of varying purposes, possibly simulating a layered 3D effect, interleaved with super-thick layers of transparent aluminum and gaps for structural integrity and emergency breach force fields.

You take a torpedo to the front of the bridge without shields, it won't matter what that wall is made of. See the Enterprise-E in Star Trek: Nemesis.

This...

 

[Kemaiku]

But there's an alcove outside the Enterprise's bridge "window", that looks like a blast shield could move around to complete the curve of the bridge bulge (slightly recessed) should it need to. The mechanism might have been pinned by the super-gravity in the first movie. And didn't bother in STID since the screen didn't crack that time.

Vengeance on the other hand, just looked like the position of the bridge was meant to be enough. Then again, Khan had a hand in her design, and might have created that vunerability deliberately. Knowing nearly the entire crew would be on the bridge, getting up close, shooting the screen through and taking control of her.

 

[Squiggy]

The observation lounge windows overlook the main shuttlebay; there SHOULD be a largish landscape-type thing out of those windows showing the rear arc of the saucer and the warp nacelles. Picard's ready room, also, sits on top of a relatively flat surface that should be totally obvious from right outside the window, but even in "Best of Both Worlds" the scene looks like the window is on a vertical wall with absolutely nothing beneath it.

If you were a 6-foot something Riker looking down right out the window, yes...you'd see the saucer before you. However the camera never had that vantage. Looking flat out the window you wouldn't have seen anything.

Except there are more than one scene in Voyager where the windows are obviously just windows. One is the final scene of the episode where Kes leaves and Tuvok is shown placing his lamp in the window shown from outside the ship. Another is a zoom-in from outside to Janeway's ready room, though I'm not sure which episode that was.

Good Shepherd (6.20)

 

[Jedi_Master]

Yeah, you ain't seeing much out of a window, no matter how big it is.