SPOILERS "The Good That Men Do" How'd you manage that?

[EliyahuQeoni]

Despite what some people seem to think, Season 4 is not a universally loved bastion of quality television.

Oh, I agree. Demons/Terra Prime and In a Mirror Darkly are the only episodes of that season I rate high and the latter is largely because of the Cool-Factor of seeing a TOS ship again. The Augments storyline, the "Lets Fix the Vulcans" three parter and the two parter dedicated to Klingon foreheads stand out as being barely watchable, imo.

In fact, watching Terra Prime I was actually disappointed that the series was ending, because if they'd made more shows like that I would have watched more regularly. Then I saw These are the Voyages...

While not a huge fan of the show I am glad to see the Trek Lit writers trying to undo some of the damage done by the finale. Reading this thread has me wanting to read The Good That Men Do

 

[KRAD]

Despite what some people seem to think, Season 4 is not a universally loved bastion of quality television.

True, but that doesn't make "These are the Voyages...." a good episode, either.

 

[Enterpriserules]

I think that season 4 was one of the best of Trek. It was better that almost every season of Voyager put together. It also had more character growth than most of TNG. The only draw-back TATV, but TGTMD fixed that. Season 4 and to some extent, season 3, really stove to tell good stories and connect ENT to the world of TOS.

On the Vulcans and "fixing" them, there is a great article defending the ENT Vulcans, in the new Trek Magazine. I think everyone should read that. That whole issue helped show the value that ENT was to Trek. If only it had been given three more seasons. I think that we would all love the show much more. It had just gotten its foundation and then was cut off. Guess that is what made TGTMD so good, so much story to work with!

 

[Christopher]

^^Wait a minute, that issue of the magazine is out? I didn't know that, and I wrote that article (and thanks for the praise). Maybe my complimentary copy is in the mail? Or it comes out in the UK before the US?

 

[Brendan Moody]

^I believe it does come out a couple weeks earlier in the UK. However, I know that at least one US writer who has an article in the issue has received his complimentary copy in the mail, so I'd guess yours is on the way as well.

 

[Enterpriserules]

^^Wait a minute, that issue of the magazine is out? I didn't know that, and I wrote that article (and thanks for the praise). Maybe my complimentary copy is in the mail? Or it comes out in the UK before the US?

I really appreciated the article. It was well written and expressed what I have always felt about the ENT Vulcans. I think that the more I watch ENT the more I appreciate what they did.

 

[KRAD]

^^Wait a minute, that issue of the magazine is out? I didn't know that, and I wrote that article (and thanks for the praise). Maybe my complimentary copy is in the mail? Or it comes out in the UK before the US?

Oh, you wrote that? Heh. I made a reference in my article on the fourth season to the fact that the Vulcans of Enterprise didn't entirely need "fixing," since they were pretty consistent with TOS Vulcans: T'Pau, who rejected a seat on the Federation Council and is dismissive of McCoy's concerns for Kirk's health; T'Pring, who manipulates Spock and Kirk in order to keep her boy toy; Stonn, the boy toy in question; and Sarek, who refused to speak to Spock for decades because he joined Starfleet.

Paul said he trimmed the bit down because there was an article in the mag on the subject....

 

[EliyahuQeoni]

Just to be clear, I don't necissarily think the ENT Vulcans needed fixing either. However, it seemed pretty obvious to me that the Forge\Awakening\Kir'Shara trilogy was an attempt to "fix" all the "problems" some fairly vocal fans had had with the ENT Vulcans since the show began.

 

[Biggshow]

^^Wait a minute, that issue of the magazine is out? I didn't know that, and I wrote that article (and thanks for the praise). Maybe my complimentary copy is in the mail? Or it comes out in the UK before the US?

Oh, you wrote that? Heh. I made a reference in my article on the fourth season to the fact that the Vulcans of Enterprise didn't entirely need "fixing," since they were pretty consistent with TOS Vulcans: T'Pau, who rejected a seat on the Federation Council and is dismissive of McCoy's concerns for Kirk's health; T'Pring, who manipulates Spock and Kirk in order to keep her boy toy; Stonn, the boy toy in question; and Sarek, who refused to speak to Spock for decades because he joined Starfleet.

I've always felt the same way. The Vulcans-as-perfect or completely emotionless doesn't hold up to scrutiny even if you only use TOS Vulcans as an example. When you throw in their appearances in the movies and earlier than ENT series, that monlithic characterization really goes out the window.

Still reading TGTMD. More than halfway through. Trip has just met the Romulan scientist.

 

[Tino]

Trip has just met the Romulan scientist.

That's the only thing I don't like about the whole thing. Trip running around as a spy, far away from the crew with only marginal contact, doesn't sit well with me. I wanna see him in action with the crew, being chief engineer again and captain's best friend.

Maybe he'll go under another name and rejoin the crew. The future records won't know he isn't dead if he refuses to have his picture taken. ;-)

 

[Reanok]

i got the magazine and thought the articles about Enterprise were well written and the Vulcans article I really liked that one alot. Also the articles about the NX Ship technology and about the Macos and Starfleet to have military officers on board Enterprise for dangerous missions we saw in seasons 3 & 4.

 

[Stevil2001]

It also had more character growth than most of TNG. The only draw-back TATV, but TGTMD fixed that. Season 4 and to some extent, season 3, really stove to tell good stories and connect ENT to the world of TOS.

Enterprise Season 4 had character growth?

 

[Brendan Moody]

It also had more character growth than most of TNG. The only draw-back TATV, but TGTMD fixed that. Season 4 and to some extent, season 3, really stove to tell good stories and connect ENT to the world of TOS.

Enterprise Season 4 had character growth?

Well, the specific criterion is "more than TNG," which is a bit like having more twee escapism than the new Battlestar Galactica. That said, I can't recall much character growth in the fourth year of Enterprise, except that the Trip/T'Pol relationship "grew" back and forth throughout the year in fine soap-opera fashion.

 

[Turtletrekker]

Semi-off topic...

^^Wait a minute, that issue of the magazine is out? I didn't know that, and I wrote that article (and thanks for the praise). Maybe my complimentary copy is in the mail? Or it comes out in the UK before the US?

Oh, you wrote that? Heh. I made a reference in my article on the fourth season to the fact that the Vulcans of Enterprise didn't entirely need "fixing," since they were pretty consistent with TOS Vulcans: T'Pau, who rejected a seat on the Federation Council and is dismissive of McCoy's concerns for Kirk's health; T'Pring, who manipulates Spock and Kirk in order to keep her boy toy; Stonn, the boy toy in question; and Sarek, who refused to speak to Spock for decades because he joined Starfleet.

Paul said he trimmed the bit down because there was an article in the mag on the subject....

I found it today at a Borders here in Washington. I don't have the mag in front of me, so maybe there is something I'm not remembering (I read through it in a rush before going to work), but Christopher, in your article, you mention that mind-melding was a near-forgotten practice limited to a small minority of Vulcans, which KRAD pointed out doesn't entirely track with what's later established. But didn't Surak tell Archer that mind-melding was the birthright of all Vulcans? And that that truth had been suppresed? Isn't that why T'Pol was able to meld with Hoshi later in the season? So isn't the "small minority" thing essentially de-bunked?

 

[Therin of Andor]

So isn't the "small minority" thing essentially de-bunked?

No, because it was still a "small minority" thing; some Vulcans were probably totally unaware they could tap into such abilities.

They also seemed to be in denial that time travel was possible, IIRC.

.

 

[Enterpriserules]

Archer becomes more of the captain that Kirk would look up to. He is decisive and willing to take the risk and do what it takes to complete missions. Trip and T'Pol, obviously have major growth. Then there are the side characters like Sovol and Shran that have growth. Plus, the stories really push forward Trek and explaining to us the move towards TOS.

 

[Turtletrekker]

So isn't the "small minority" thing essentially de-bunked?

No, because it was still a "small minority" thing; some Vulcans were probably totally unaware they could tap into such abilities.

They also seemed to be in denial that time travel was possible, IIRC.

.

But the impression I got from Sarek was that all Vulcans could do it if they knew how. No minority, but all of them. That was what I was trying to say. I realize that in the ENT time-frame the large majority was unaware that they could perform things like touch telepathy.

 

[Therin of Andor]

But the impression I got from Sarek was that all Vulcans could do it if they knew how. No minority, but all of them. That was what I was trying to say. I realize that in the ENT time-frame the large majority was unaware that they could perform things like touch telepathy.

Exactly, so nothing needs debunking.

 

[KRAD]

Enterprise Season 4 had character growth?

It did, actually, but it was primarily among the guest characters: Arik Soong, Antaak, and particularly Shran and Soval. The latter especially developed quite a bit over Enterprise's run.

 

[Stevil2001]

I can see Shran and Soval-- but if we're going to count guest/recurring characters, then the comparison with TNG doesn't really hold, since those sorts of characters almost always change in a way the main cast doesn't on any show.