Spoiler! DONT HATE ME! I liked FC
- Thread starter KimMH
- Start date
That's quite helpful to me, I only discovered Janeway's death a few weeks ago when I was googling something else to do with Voyager .... I haven't had time to absorb things.
Maybe I'll read Full Circle and find it a healing experience, but maybe waiting a few months would be a good idea. I really want to read the String Theory books anyway and haven't bought them yet, maybe I'll tackle them first. I also have a half read copy of Distant Shores I could finish - I read all the stories I'd been waiting to like Isabo's Shirt and then tossed it to one side
I never thought I'd say anything like 'I need more time to get over a fictional character's death'. I think sometimes as someone else said somewhere up this thread I think,, dealing with this sort of stuff is kind of a comforting way of handling reality and the inevitability of all our eventual deaths.
Haha I've been referring to myself as a Geek a lot recently, but in my world that's cool
Far better than being bland!
That's quite helpful to me, I only discovered Janeway's death a few weeks ago when I was googling something else to do with Voyager .... I haven't had time to absorb things.
Maybe I'll read Full Circle and find it a healing experience, but maybe waiting a few months would be a good idea. I really want to read the String Theory books anyway and haven't bought them yet, maybe I'll tackle them first. I also have a half read copy of Distant Shores I could finish - I read all the stories I'd been waiting to like Isabo's Shirt and then tossed it to one side
I never thought I'd say anything like 'I need more time to get over a fictional character's death'. I think sometimes as someone else said somewhere up this thread I think,, dealing with this sort of stuff is kind of a comforting way of handling reality and the inevitability of all our eventual deaths.
Haha I've been referring to myself as a Geek a lot recently, but in my world that's cool
I must admit that I'm still in "an anger part of mourning" when it comes to Kes, the destruction of that character. This annihilation of Janeway is like tearing up old wounds, it's the same kind of character destruction repeated again, this time with different people in charge but still the same thing.
I stopped watching Voyager after season three first time around, took me years to go back to it. A friend kept me updated occasionally eg 'the last episode was on last night and they got home'
I was a bigger fan of TNG back then so I didn't feel as cross about it all as I do now about Janeway, I just kind of drifted away, saw an occasional episode here and there and thought Seven was awful. I've since revisited the later series of VOY and, with the benefit of several years to get used to the concept that Kes is switched for Seven, it's grown on me somewhat, I've even enjoyed an occasional Seven episode, though I still would prefer it not to have happened. It doesn't anger me anymore is what I think I'm saying, so I'm now able to judge the later series for what they are, not what they might have been. On a good day anyway
If I'd been as big a fan as I am now I'd've been distraught and joining in with the angry voices on here.
So maybe one day in a couple of years I'll be able to read FC and even the later books if I can be bothered to get used to a new crew and think 'Wow what fantastic works of fiction' despite the fact that I still will think it would be better if Janeway was alive. Who knows.
Then if it's all still going they'll probably wipe out someone else, or worse, (the mind boggles - not sure if from my point of view it could get much worse than killing Janeway) and we'll go round again.
Add me to the list of Voyager/Janeway fans who loved Full Circle.
Of course, as someone who was saddened, but still excited by Janeway's death from a literary standpoint, I suppose that was to be expected should the book turn out to not be awful. Which it didn't. It was amazing actually. The characterizations were incredible, and the story gave a rollercoaster of genuine emotion, both in terms of what the crew felt and what I was moved to feel by the author. 2 thumbs up, plus a couple of big toes.
But as the phrase I'm hearing so often lately goes, your mileage may unfortunately vary, and I respect the opinions of all who would rather toss the book in fast-moving river.
Of course, as someone who was saddened, but still excited by Janeway's death from a literary standpoint, I suppose that was to be expected should the book turn out to not be awful. Which it didn't. It was amazing actually. The characterizations were incredible, and the story gave a rollercoaster of genuine emotion, both in terms of what the crew felt and what I was moved to feel by the author. 2 thumbs up, plus a couple of big toes.
But as the phrase I'm hearing so often lately goes, your mileage may unfortunately vary, and I respect the opinions of all who would rather toss the book in fast-moving river.
I stopped watching Voyager after season three first time around, took me years to go back to it. A friend kept me updated occasionally eg 'the last episode was on last night and they got home'
I was a bigger fan of TNG back then so I didn't feel as cross about it all as I do now about Janeway, I just kind of drifted away, saw an occasional episode here and there and thought Seven was awful. I've since revisited the later series of VOY and, with the benefit of several years to get used to the concept that Kes is switched for Seven, it's grown on me somewhat, I've even enjoyed an occasional Seven episode, though I still would prefer it not to have happened. It doesn't anger me anymore is what I think I'm saying, so I'm now able to judge the later series for what they are, not what they might have been. On a good day anyway
If I'd been as big a fan as I am now I'd've been distraught and joining in with the angry voices on here.
So maybe one day in a couple of years I'll be able to read FC and even the later books if I can be bothered to get used to a new crew and think 'Wow what fantastic works of fiction' despite the fact that I still will think it would be better if Janeway was alive. Who knows.
Then if it's all still going they'll probably wipe out someone else, or worse, (the mind boggles - not sure if from my point of view it could get much worse than killing Janeway) and we'll go round again.
Apparently there are some similarities in our Voyager stories.
I stopped watching Voyager for two years after Kes was kicked out. I simply couldn't stand it. After all, I did have my taped season 1-3 episodes.
But after two years I decide to give it another chance. So I borrowed the tapes with the episodes I hadn't watched until I did catch up with what was going on in the series, which was the beginning of season 6. However, I didn't really like those episodes.
Then came "Fury" which was the final straw. I decided to quit there and then. I did watch "Endgame", making my mind up in the last possible minute. The reward for that was another dissapointing episode.
And no, I haven't read any of the Voyager season 4-7 books either, the only exception is the "Dark Matter" trilogy.
When the relaunch started, I was hoping that it would correct some of the worst stupidities from the series and in one case it did. But I wasn't too happy with the relaunch books either. However, I did read some of them and would probably have bought some more of the books if it hadn't been for the latest events.
The "Janeway case" feels like the "Kes case" all over again, this time with the destruction of another character. Therefore I won't read "Full Circle", "Destiny" or any of the upcoming books if Janeway isn't brought back.
Technically maybe, but practically it's the same thing.
If you have a staff of 9 people with a three year contract which everyone is expected that it will be renewed (considering the fact that the job would actually last for seven years) and all of them are renewed but one and a newbie is brought in instead, then it's actually equal to a firing.
Actually its equal to not having your contract renewed. Firing is having your contract prematurely terminated...sorry don't mean to belabour the point. You're right it is pretty much the same thing. But Jennifer Lien signed up for Voy knowing after 3 years she could be out on her ear, so I don't think she can really be portrayed as a victim in that sense...
Hmmmmmm yes technically she wasn't fired. But it was still a bit of a very public slap in the face when all the others were kept on. And a strange move when she was so good in her final season, especially in Warlord and Before and After where she showed she was multi talented and could've taken the character forward in a variety of different ways.
Was there any reason why a female Borg arriving meant that a female crew member had to leave rather than a male? There'd still've been more men than women, just.
Anyway, it happened, so that's that. To drag this vaguely back to the thread subject, instead of Full Circle just for the time being I've ordered my first String Theory book, looking forward to reading them especially since (I think) someone said they deal with the issue of Fury??
I'm also plodding through Distant Shores a bit at a time, there's a story in there called 'Closure' about Neelix and Kes that I enjoyed the other day.
Was there any reason why a female Borg arriving meant that a female crew member had to leave rather than a male? There'd still've been more men than women, just.
Anyway, it happened, so that's that. To drag this vaguely back to the thread subject, instead of Full Circle just for the time being I've ordered my first String Theory book, looking forward to reading them especially since (I think) someone said they deal with the issue of Fury??
I'm also plodding through Distant Shores a bit at a time, there's a story in there called 'Closure' about Neelix and Kes that I enjoyed the other day.
Just wanted to observe - I don't think I've ever read so much debate or seen so many spoilers about a book before as I have about FC. Probably a good thing, I like to know what I'm getting into with books that deal with stuff like the death of my favourite Character in my favourite TV prog. When I read Before Dishonour I knew she died at the hands of a Borg Cube but had read stuff saying Peter David handled it well, I was unprepared for what I consider to have been a horrible way to finish her off - the whole book seemed to relish the descriptions of her as the Queen, and because it was a TNG book it was done with her in isolation from anyone who really cared apart from Seven. Q caring from afar and sending his missus doesn't count she seemed a bit gloating! Horrifically, I nearly bought BD before I knew Janeway died in it, the reviews I'd read said it had a fair bit of Janeway and Seven in it and I like TNG - I didn't thank goodness because I couldn't be bothered to learn about Picard's new crew, I'm so so glad now - my blood runs cold at the idea of buying a book with something like that in it and reading it unawares!
So I need to read these spoilers before I attempt FC when I feel ready, they're quite reassuring.
I gave up reading the thread on FC in Trek Lit a couple of weeks ago though, I got fed up of the Janeway bashing over there. Am I allowed to say that? I don't expect everyone to like her but it got too intense for me, too soon when I'm still very cross she died in the first place.
So I need to read these spoilers before I attempt FC when I feel ready, they're quite reassuring.
I gave up reading the thread on FC in Trek Lit a couple of weeks ago though, I got fed up of the Janeway bashing over there. Am I allowed to say that? I don't expect everyone to like her but it got too intense for me, too soon when I'm still very cross she died in the first place.
I think you'll like the String Thoery trilogy - it's some of the best recent work I've read. Lynx, what did you think about it's treatment of Kes? I thought it excellent! Warning - there's a LOT of technobabble - I'm not of a particulary scientific bent and I had difficulty with it it. Harry gets him some too, which I found a nice touch!
I can agree here, it really was a slap in the face considering the fact that she was the only one to go.
Apparently the fiirst one they were planning to dump was Kim. But when a silly inside poll among the staff of People's magazine showed him as one of the "50 most handsome", they did change their minds and dumped Kes instead. As we can see in "Scorpion", Kim is close to death but in part 2, all of a sudden he is cured and in the next episode Kes gets those ridiculous powers in a very thin and unconvincing story and have to leave. It must have been a quick-written story just to get rid of her.
The other actors weren't too happy about the decision either and both Mulgrew and Beltran have come up with statements that they had wanted Jennifer Lien to remain in the cast.
I haven't read that "Distant Shores" story. Is it good? No character destruction? I'm asking this because I once bought one of the "Strange New World" books in which there was a story in which the stupidities in "Fury" should be corrected. Oh yes, they were.
That story was even worse than "Fury". I sold the book on Ebay for a very symbolic sum. I just couldn't stand seeing it.
Fortunately we did get the String Theory books!
OK, the story is weird and heavy-read and I would have like to have a story where Kes returns to the Voyager crew. But the story did explain and over-write the character destruction in "Fury" in a very good and for me acceptable way.
Hum. Have quickly skimmed the distant shores story again today, oh the responsibilities!!
It's great if you want Neelix to ahve some closure over Kes dumping him and him still loving her.
It's less than great if you loathe Seven as a Kes replacer, she's not in the main scenes but she's stuck with Neelix,m she and Neelix are the only two in it from the current crew, and she's about to die unless he can get them both out, and Kes expresses concern for her.
It's useless really if you want to know a great deal about where Kes is now and what her life is like, apart from you find out she's capable of popping up and helping Neelix.
Haven't noticed any Character destruction thoguh, she's treated respectfully as are Neelix and seven, and nobody else is really in it. It's fairly short as just one of quite a few stories.
There's some other good stuff in Distant shores, a few loose ends are tied up. The general air so far is respectful. I haven't finished it yet, but I really liked the story of Admiral Janeway as in the old version from Endgame approaching her death with the Borg, which is extremely poignant now of course - though the younger Admiral Janeway had a different experience as Q rescued her.
By the way is there any of Q in Full Circle and is her afterlife explored any more than it is in Befroe Dishonour? all it says in BD is she can't go back but she one of the few who get to go with a Q because our Q is interested in her, its implied as a priviledge, and there's endless coffee where she's going! I'd like to know before I read it.
Oh and after my comments yesterday about the FC thread in Trek Lit I had a quick peep and the most recent posts last night were from folk saying 'bring Janeway back please!' I stand corrected! I suppose it just depends which day you read it and who has been on.
It's great if you want Neelix to ahve some closure over Kes dumping him and him still loving her.
It's less than great if you loathe Seven as a Kes replacer, she's not in the main scenes but she's stuck with Neelix,m she and Neelix are the only two in it from the current crew, and she's about to die unless he can get them both out, and Kes expresses concern for her.
It's useless really if you want to know a great deal about where Kes is now and what her life is like, apart from you find out she's capable of popping up and helping Neelix.
Haven't noticed any Character destruction thoguh, she's treated respectfully as are Neelix and seven, and nobody else is really in it. It's fairly short as just one of quite a few stories.
There's some other good stuff in Distant shores, a few loose ends are tied up. The general air so far is respectful. I haven't finished it yet, but I really liked the story of Admiral Janeway as in the old version from Endgame approaching her death with the Borg, which is extremely poignant now of course - though the younger Admiral Janeway had a different experience as Q rescued her.
By the way is there any of Q in Full Circle and is her afterlife explored any more than it is in Befroe Dishonour? all it says in BD is she can't go back but she one of the few who get to go with a Q because our Q is interested in her, its implied as a priviledge, and there's endless coffee where she's going! I'd like to know before I read it.
Oh and after my comments yesterday about the FC thread in Trek Lit I had a quick peep and the most recent posts last night were from folk saying 'bring Janeway back please!' I stand corrected! I suppose it just depends which day you read it and who has been on.
It actually looks interesting. I'll check it out.
As long as there aren't any references to "Fury" and too much of that "The Gift" energy-being mumbo-jumbo, it can be interesting.
And no, I don't mind if Seven is in the story as long as it is a decent story considering Kes.
But I don't want to read about "the older Janeway" and more of that "Endgame" stuff so I'll skip that.
As for where Kes is now, the answer is here!
http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Park/1964/Kesstories.html
Lynx said:
Kes does perform a possible (not proven) miracle right at the end to help rescue Seven and Neelix, but it isn't really dwelt upon, don't know if that's too much 'mumbo jumbo' for you Lynx? then there's the fact that she pops up there to talk to neelix in the first place
But that's not really dwelt upon either iyswim.Wish I could do that. Whizz about and pop up in funny places I mean. Maybe Kes got a better deal than Janeway - who'd want to live with Q??
Still waiting for my String Theory book, it's presumably somewhere over the atlantic
Lynx said:
Kes does perform a possible (not proven) miracle right at the end to help rescue Seven and Neelix, but it isn't really dwelt upon, don't know if that's too much 'mumbo jumbo' for you Lynx? then there's the fact that she pops up there to talk to neelix in the first place
Wish I could do that. Whizz about and pop up in funny places I mean. Maybe Kes got a better deal than Janeway - who'd want to live with Q??
Still waiting for my String Theory book, it's presumably somewhere over the atlantic
Well, it can be worth to read anyway.
As for the String Theory books, there are three.
Kes shows up in book 3
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